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And the downword spiral begins....

Packfanatic

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 26, 2011
Messages
177
Location
North of Madison
Happy

I am happy I received a license... I am happy for castle domain... I am happy about a lot of things. Does this mean I will be complacent and stop the fight? No way! The RIGHTS of all Americans are and will continue to be under attack. I write my legislators not only about 2A rights but about anything that irks me.

Please join in if you live in Dane County and tell the officials that are proposing a "WHEEL TAX" that we are tired of excessive taxation without representation. < That is just an example.

I am semi-retired so I am not able to afford the luxury of continuing education but I can assure you I can defend myself.. Albeit ... maybe not to your level of expectations.

But I do know one thing.... I will remain steadfast in my quest and thirst for knowledge. No one can predict how a scenario will turn out. In combat there are too many variables you can throw in the mix.
Most people can think for themselves.

So I have enjoyed your postings and the somewhat devil’s advocate stimulation as that does indeed open one’s eyes. It is just too bad that you cannot take but only seem to give criticism. Look in the mirror. What do you see? I personally would like for you to stay here but then again that is your choice not mine.
 

msteinhilber

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 10, 2010
Messages
125
Location
Verona, WI
I don't follow this forum as often as most here, but I was never under any bit of an impression that WCI or anybody else here had given up fighting for constitutional carry. In fact, I can recall e-mails stating this was all but a stepping stone towards constitutional carry.

Somebody needs to get their panties untangled.
 

AaronS

Regular Member
Joined
May 2, 2009
Messages
1,497
Location
Milwaukee, Wisconsin, USA
I don't follow this forum as often as most here, but I was never under any bit of an impression that WCI or anybody else here had given up fighting for constitutional carry. In fact, I can recall e-mails stating this was all but a stepping stone towards constitutional carry.

Somebody needs to get their panties untangled.

Sounds to me like you read the forum just fine. I agree with you 100%.

I am still basking in my $50 of freedom. I will bask for a little, as I feel we worked hard to see it happen. I would love to see what we all spent on gas alone just to see this permit system happen.

Without question, all I have at this time is $50 of freedom, and yes I want more.

When I get over my happy feeling, I will start up once again. I am not done just yet.

WCI is still very young, and still very needed. I can't wait for my next membership sticker from them, as I put them on my front door, and my truck.
 

wild boar

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 2, 2011
Messages
445
Location
wisconsin
I truly know where...

...your coming from Jack. As you've watched the fire in the eyes of the once vibrant Constitutional warrior fade, I to have seen it transform into the dim glow that illuminates the coveted plastic card. Knowing the momentum that it took to achieve what has been done will be slow; if not impossible to regain, it troubles me. I've tried to fan the embers of the once powerful flame that roared with energy. Though some of the embers glow, many of the gathers of wood that supplied the fuel for the force now sit idle. A storm approaches in the form of AB 237 but very few show it the deserved attention. Like you sir, I will grow tired of being a force for many with the will of one. I'll not stop fighting, not as long as I draw a breath, for I will not stand an injustice, not as long as I shall live. boar out.
 

theoicarry

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 19, 2010
Messages
178
Location
baraboo, wisconsin
C.J. I believe I understand what you are thinking and I tend to agree with you on some of it. However, we (me, myself and I) are still fighting for our rights. We cannot win this war all at once, we have to win it one battle at a time. I DO agree with you about those that seemingly have "swooped down" for the now required training and are out to make money from it. Myself, I have offered to become a concealed carry instructor for Wisconsin Carry and NOT charge anyone anytime anywhere. I do NOT have your life and death experience in small arms, explosives or whatever other items of destruction you are familiar with but I do have the ability to train others in what concealed carry is all about in Wisconsin I.A.W. the D.O.J. training requirements.

I do not understand your comment about Hubert, Auric and Nik making money??? Wisconsin Carry doesn't make money, it's a non profit organization.

As for all those posting about their licenses to conceal carry why does that bother you so much? We won a huge fight in Wisconsin going from banned concealed carry to shall issue concealed carry which also strengthened our right to open carry in many more places. I DO agree we should not have to pay for a right but we couldn't make the leap from an outright ban of many of our rights to Constitutional Carry in such a short time span. Many of us have opted to get the license so we can go through life with our firearm with us within the constraints of ACT 35. We shouldn't HAVE to but for now that is what it is. We will continue to fight this battle until we do have Constitutional Carry. Yes, we are paying for it and yes we are celebrating getting our "Rights" license but this is not the end of this war on restoring our rights.

As for your comments about the "training" people will receive being inferior to yours you are probably correct! You obviously train on how to use your firearm in self defense to a much higher degree than what is required by law. For that I commend you!
For you to state that anyone who gets training from an instructor that has no real life experience in self defense is not going to be "good enough" is a bit short sighted. Many of us who carry here in the real world are out of shape, have decaying eyesight, old, crippled to some extent or just plain disabled and will NEVER be able to perform the training agenda of the military in combat or SWAT or anything more strenuous than getting out of a wheel chair. Should we strip them of their right to protect themselves? How can anyone learn anything about self defense if they have not yet experienced it (according to your own statement)?? We have to start somewhere and those that carry as I do will seek out more training and stick to a gun they know well. Some will get the training and realize that they do not want the responsibility of carrying a firearm due to the liability issues. Others will continue on and train, train, train.

Your "stray bullet" comment is out of line. I cannot imagine anyone sending a stray bullet toward you or your family or anyone else intentionally because they don't have the training and ability you do. Your comment leads me to believe that if a self defense situation occurs in your immediate vicinity and the person(s) defending themselves "sends a stray bullet" your way you are going to shoot them?!?

I do hope you reconsider and not leave the "community" on OCDO or Wisconsin Carry. Most if not all of us still open carry and still educate the general population on their right to keep and bear arms in the state of Wisconsin.

I guess the above quote said it all. I cannot add much other than I am very excited and cannot wait to get my permit. As far as training! I feel I have taken a great course and very happy I did. Shots will never come your way. Like so many have stated. I sleep by my mail box.....
Take Care C.J. and keep your top not covered, and back to the wind.
 

oak1971

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 8, 2008
Messages
1,937
Location
Wisconsin, USA
Well CJ, I haven't given up and I am not jumping for joy about the permits. If you have read any of my posts, its abundantly clear I was and still am pissed off about being stabbed in the back by "our own side". I pray for the day we can light our permits on fire. If that isn't good enough, I don't know what else to tell you-except good luck.
 

Captain Nemo

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 11, 2010
Messages
1,029
Location
Somewhere, Wisconsin, USA
Glad to see my comments and CJ's comments have got people p****d off and blowing on the embers. Now is not the time for complacency. There are a number of politicians that feel "well we gave them concealed carry our work is done". Getting them to take one more step will need relentless convincing.
 
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paul@paul-fisher.com

Regular Member
Joined
May 24, 2009
Messages
4,049
Location
Chandler, AZ
There are a number of politicians that feel "well we gave them concealed carry our work is done". Getting them to take one more step will need relentless convincing.

On this we agree. I am rather pissed that JB says 'we should be grateful' to him.

In addition, when I was at the Walworth County Board meeting this past Tuesday, I now know who I am voting against and working on getting someone to run against them. I was so pissed off after the meeting I had to not talk or say something I would later regret.
 
H

Herr Heckler Koch

Guest
Run for elected office

Run for elected office and discover the magnitude of our minority.
 

TyGuy

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 19, 2010
Messages
775
Location
, ,
As a FIB living in the only state without any form of carry, I would be elated with the WI law. That said, I would then use that as a springboard to push for fewer restrictions. Already the training requirement has become much easier to satisfy. Eventually removing that, with the ultimate goal of Constitutional carry is a good mindset to have, but take it one step at a time. Rome wasn't built in a day.
 

MilProGuy

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 7, 2011
Messages
1,210
Location
Mississippi
No matter how much we dislike ANY law, it is still the law. Financially, I for one cannot afford to fight the good fight by exercising my right to go against the law and carry without the permit, or drive through a school zone with a loaded firearm in my vehicle, or for that matter shoot someone without having the knowledge obtained in the NRA classes I have taken (not tactical swat team type classes) that at least give me some idea when a shoot would be considered justifiable.

So although I do agree with your basic premise that why celebrate not getting what we wanted as in Constitutional Carry, I do feel that a battle won in a long term war is in fact is worth celebrating.

On Point… CalicoJack, since day 1 of my involvement here I have considered you a excellent source of knowledge, information, and at times even inspiration.

Just to let you know sir, none of that has changed.

Good Luck in whatever quest you choose to engage.

Outdsoorsman1

Even though your post was not directed towards me, I want to thank you for your salient remarks and for the words of encouragement you just offered CalicoJack.

We live in a world where, encouragement, is sometimes rare...yet a great deal of the time is sorely needed in the conversations of today.
 

bigdaddy1

Regular Member
Joined
May 7, 2009
Messages
1,320
Location
Southsider der hey
There was and is no reason for any attack on CJ, he simply stated his frustration with what he perceived as complacency in an issue he feels strongly about.
 

paul@paul-fisher.com

Regular Member
Joined
May 24, 2009
Messages
4,049
Location
Chandler, AZ
There was and is no reason for any attack on CJ, he simply stated his frustration with what he perceived as complacency in an issue he feels strongly about.

Whatever. Him saying

I read the news reports, and I know all about the people that showed up in their WCI shirts like it was a badge of honor, when in fact it has become a symbol of not only the fact that there is a lot of fight left, but also a representation of people who immediately jumped on the band wagon and started creating courses to make as much money as possible before the details of what really happened came out. Isn't that right Auric, Hubert and Nik?

was an attack on me since I was quoted in various papers while wearing my WCI t-shirt and then him saying WCI support training because of the money they are making from their free training is innacurate.

When I was interviewed with my t-shirt, I made sure to tell the reporters that while I was 'happy' to get a license, I wasn't happy to pay $50 for a right. CJ seemed to gloss right over that.
 

BROKENSPROKET

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 5, 2010
Messages
2,199
Location
Trempealeau County
For quite some time I have been telling people that this half assed training is going to get someone killed. There is nothing in this world that can teach you about self defense except actual experience. AndVERY FEW instructors in this state have that experience. You can talk military, and LEO, and all that **** all you want, but the truth is that we sit in a totally different situation, even if we have that experience. The first time you have someone that defends themselves, it will cost us all. I really do hope that when that day comes, it does not cost innocent lives.

Do I still train people? You bet your ass I do! But I am not teaching DOJ courses, or hunters safety, I am teaching people how to survive, and make sure they don't kill innocent people in the process. I still do it for free, and I will NEVER charge for what I do. I will not pat someone on the back for swooping in after the fact to try and get some popularity out of it. This has become a series of "Good Enough" statements in the firearms community. Good enough won't save your life, or the lives of your loved ones. It wont spare innocent people, or stop the lawsuits. It will get us all rite back where we started. There will never be groups again, because asking people to take care of their own costs is obviously too much to ask of people.

And just so we are clear, if someone who thinks their training is good enough fires a weapon and a stray bullet comes in my direction, or that of my family, I will defend myself and my family!!!!!! Have a nice life all!!!

I am with Paul on what he said, but THIS^^^^^^^^^^^^ is the part that pissed me off. The phucking arrogance that only an elite few are qualified to instruct and the rest are just going to get someone killed.

This guy has mental issues, maybe it's PTSD. He is talking out both sides of his mouth like split personalties dominating at the same time. First, judging us for settling for this permit thinking that there is NO fight left in us AND the presents himself of one of the few in Wisconsin that is qualified to instruct and that training standards should be ALOT tougher.

[sarcasm "ON"] I think someone should call the cops to execute a welfare check. [sarcasm "OFF"]
 
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Nutczak

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 2, 2008
Messages
2,165
Location
The Northwoods, lakeland area, Wisconsin, USA
I am with Paul on what he said, but THIS^^^^^^^^^^^^ is the part that pissed me off. The phucking arrogance that only an elite few are qualified to instruct and the rest are just going to get someone killed.

This guy has mental issues, maybe it's PTSD. He is talking out both sides of his mouth like split personalties dominating at the same time. First, judging us for settling for this permit thinking that there is NO fight left in us AND the presents himself of one of the few in Wisconsin that is qualified to instruct and that training standards should be ALOT tougher.

I think someone should call the cops to execute a welfare check.

PM sent....................
 

oak1971

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 8, 2008
Messages
1,937
Location
Wisconsin, USA
I am with Paul on what he said, but THIS^^^^^^^^^^^^ is the part that pissed me off. The phucking arrogance that only an elite few are qualified to instruct and the rest are just going to get someone killed.

This guy has mental issues, maybe it's PTSD. He is talking out both sides of his mouth like split personalties dominating at the same time. First, judging us for settling for this permit thinking that there is NO fight left in us AND the presents himself of one of the few in Wisconsin that is qualified to instruct and that training standards should be ALOT tougher.

I think someone should call the cops to execute a welfare check.

I concur. There is a strange dichotomy in his statements that implies cognitive dissonance. More disturbing yet is the misplaced rage and skewed perception of reality, which could be explained by a lack of reading comprehension, but possibly has its origin in some unresolved personal issues. Whatever the case, we are not the droids he's looking for.
 
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