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Thread: Guard at the Tomb of The Unknown Soldier maintains proper decorum.

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    Regular Member MilProGuy's Avatar
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    Guard at the Tomb of The Unknown Soldier maintains proper decorum.

    There is a time and a place for everything.

    http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=c59_1320722129
    Last edited by MilProGuy; 11-10-2011 at 11:12 PM. Reason: edited to add bold text for emphasis
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    Founder's Club Member thebigsd's Avatar
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    As it should be. Those who gave their lives for our freedom deserve all the respect we can offer.
    Last edited by thebigsd; 11-09-2011 at 10:50 PM.
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    Regular Member Redbaron007's Avatar
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    Thumbs up



    Perfectly handled!!


    Unfortunately, there are a lot of Americans don't just don't get it. I was at the Veterans Cemetery on Memorial Day; there was a special service for a recently buried vet; some others visiting the cemetery were very noisy and interupted the ceremony. One of the color guards went over and asked them to tone it down. Fortunately, they did.

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    Well handled .... but: what would have been the next step had those showing disrespect not complied?

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    Activist Member golddigger14s's Avatar
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    Too bad the rifle wasn't loaded, could have shot them! That will get the SOB's attention.
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    Quote Originally Posted by RockyMtnScotsman View Post
    Well handled .... but: what would have been the next step had those showing disrespect not complied?
    You see that shiny pointy thing on the end of the rifle?

    The Old Guard, like the Queen's Guard, are not just decorative ceremonial soldiers.

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    Regular Member Uber_Olafsun's Avatar
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    I have seen them do something like that in person before. The person was not paying attention and looked like they soiled themselves when they heard him pop like that. Priceless. If someone still was causing problems I am sure there are enough troops in the back to handle it.

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    Regular Member SFCRetired's Avatar
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    Not to mention the steel plate on the butt of his weapon. Getting that in the face tends to focus one's attention quite well.

    The Third Infantry Regiment of the United States Army is the oldest continuously serving unit in the Army. Its members must meet rigid height and weight standards, pass a PT test with a minimum score, and have been awarded the 11B, Combat Infantryman, military occupational specialty. Those who guard the Tomb are an elite within the elite. Only after passing even more rigid examinations is a member of the Old Guard allowed to guard the Tomb. His first tours of duty are when the public is not present.

    Yes, I was a soldier and I'm still very proud of that fact since you ask.

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    Regular Member MilProGuy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SFCRetired View Post
    Yes, I was a soldier and I'm still very proud of that fact since you ask.
    And well you should be sir.

    Thank you for your career of Army service to our great nation.
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    We just received a new sgt to my unit, who served at the tomb for a year and 1/2. He said he loved it, because it was such an honor.

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    I hate to be the odd man out, but as a former Marine I have standing to comment.

    The First Amendment is not suspended at shrines.

    Giggling and joking is far, far from deliberate, calculated disrespect, such as, say, the preacher who was going around to military funerals saying dead soldiers were God's wrath for America's tolerance of homosexuals.

    It is one thing for the guard to request--which he did. And, the noisy ones shut up. But, they could just as well have continued--and we would be very wise to support their right to do so.

    Majority opinion and majority speech needs no protection in a democratic republic.

    Who is the government to decide to seize our tax dollars under threat and then assert that all must be silent and respectful at the locations it chooses?

    Especially when the demanded respect helps glorify the dead the government helped get killed? Glorification, honoring the dead? These play right into the hands of the sociopaths who lie us into war, I suspect. Below is a link to a very interesting video--a clip from an old movie. When taken together with Gen. Smedley Butler's (USMC) book, War is a Racket, the clip is definitely food for thought.

    So, while we may or may not be personally affronted by the giggling and laughing, I would recommend against supporting too strongly the government (guard) shutting up the "offenders"


    The mother has been pretending her husband and son are still alive: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qIeYp...eature=related
    Last edited by Citizen; 11-10-2011 at 09:34 PM.

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    Those guys are trained to stand there for ( I dunno how many ) hours like a statue. I have no doubt about their dedication and sense of restraint since I've never heard of any hippie oxygen thieves getting the buttstroke to the groin they deserve. I can't even believe the genepool has been so badly corrupted that there are people so vapid that one of these guys has to break off and chastize a gaggle of disrespectful bed wetters.
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    Founder's Club Member PrayingForWar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    I hate to be the odd man out, but as a former Marine I have standing to comment.

    The First Amendment is not suspended at shrines.

    Giggling and joking is far, far from deliberate, calculated disrespect, such as, say, the preacher who was going around to military funerals saying dead soldiers were God's wrath for America's tolerance of homosexuals.

    It is one thing for the guard to request--which he did. And, the noisy ones shut up. But, they could just as well have continued--and we would be very wise to support their right to do so.

    Majority opinion and majority speech needs no protection in a democratic republic.

    Who is the government to decide to seize our tax dollars under threat and then assert that all must be silent and respectful at the locations it chooses?

    Especially when the demanded respect helps glorify the dead the government helped get killed? Glorification, honoring the dead? These play right into the hands of the sociopaths who lie us into war, I suspect. Below is a link to a very interesting video--a clip from an old movie. When taken together with Gen. Smedley Butler's (USMC) book, War is a Racket, the clip is definitely food for thought.

    So, while we may or may not be personally affronted by the giggling and laughing, I would recommend against supporting too strongly the government (guard) shutting up the "offenders"


    The mother has been pretending her husband and son are still alive: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qIeYp...eature=related
    In public hearings, courts and events officials have always had the authority to regulate unruly behavior. The government has the authority to enforce respect and silence at memorials by a mandate from the majority of people who understand what is and is not tolerable in a civilized society.
    If you ladies leave my island, if you survive recruit training. You will become a minister of death, PRAYING FOR WAR...

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    Quote Originally Posted by PrayingForWar View Post
    In public hearings, courts and events officials have always had the authority to regulate unruly behavior. The government has the authority to enforce respect and silence at memorials by a mandate from the majority of people who understand what is and is not tolerable in a civilized society.
    Uh-huh. Suuuuuuure.

    Thanks for giving some thought to the rest of what I wrote, too.
    Last edited by Citizen; 11-10-2011 at 10:07 PM.

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    Regular Member MilProGuy's Avatar
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    As I stated in my first post on this thread:

    There is a time and a place for everything.
    Proud Veteran ~ U.S. Army / Army Reserve

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    Founder's Club Member PrayingForWar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    Uh-huh. Suuuuuuure.

    Thanks for giving some thought to the rest of what I wrote, too.
    If they build a memorial to obozo, marx and john lennon with rules against acting like an ass I would simply avoid it rather than put myself in a position where I would get chastized by someone charged with guarding it. It's public property bottom line, and all of the public should have the right to visit such property without being disturbed by people who have no common sense. Whether you like it (or believe it) or not, the government gets it's authority to exist, enforce regulations, tax, imprison, wage war, steal and redistribute wealth depending on what the majority of the public demands or tolerates.

    I would stick with the clear majority that holds disrespectul (*&%*'s in contempt.
    If you ladies leave my island, if you survive recruit training. You will become a minister of death, PRAYING FOR WAR...

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    Campaign Veteran Schlitz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tomb Guard View Post
    It is requested that everyone maintains a level of silence and respect
    Last edited by Schlitz; 11-10-2011 at 10:32 PM.
    “The claim and exercise of a constitutional right cannot be converted into a crime.”
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    [Sherar vs. Cullen, 481 F2d. 946 (1973)]

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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    The First Amendment is not suspended at shrines.

    ...

    So, while we may or may not be personally affronted by the giggling and laughing, I would recommend against supporting too strongly the government (guard) shutting up the "offenders"
    You are correct, of course, even though I joked earlier about the pointy end of the boomstick.

    I strongly supported the people who showed up at the Jefferson Memorial --Thomas Jefferson, mind you!-- to dance silently at midnight to celebrate TJ's birthday. There was no noise, no disturbance, but the Park Police swooped in like they'd caught bin Laden and arrested the dancers. They did the same thing again some time later, when a daylight silent dance was held in protest of the earlier arrests.

    Those weren't even protests; there were no signs, no one speaking, no noise at all. It was simply some couples and/or individuals whose body language suggested "dancing" to the officials who believe the spirit of Thomas Jefferson requires somber repose.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PrayingForWar View Post
    If they build a memorial to obozo, marx and john lennon with rules against acting like an ass I would simply avoid it rather than put myself in a position where I would get chastized by someone charged with guarding it. It's public property bottom line, and all of the public should have the right to visit such property without being disturbed by people who have no common sense. Whether you like it (or believe it) or not, the government gets it's authority to exist, enforce regulations, tax, imprison, wage war, steal and redistribute wealth depending on what the majority of the public demands or tolerates.

    I would stick with the clear majority that holds disrespectul (*&%*'s in contempt.
    Uh huh.

    You understand it wasn't all that many years ago that OCers were the target of very similar--shall we say--rationale?

    It was thoughtless to OC--cause it made people nervous. It was within the government's legitimate sphere to seize (detain) and investigate lawful OCers because, well, they might be up to something. And, (gasp!) they were doing something "intolerable"--carrying a gun. Or, so the "rationale" went.

    What you have written about government power and majority is called legal Positivism. It holds, among other things, that any law is legitimate because laws are all man-made. Positivism is the antithesis of natural rights, Natural Law--whether called the law of God or Nature. The concept of a Natural Law and natural rights holds that man-made laws, in order to be legitimate, must abide by or align with the law of Nature or God. Meaning, there is a higher law than man-made laws--the law of how the universe works, and how Man's mind and spirit work.

    Positivism. Natural Law. Natural rights. I'll let you all figure out which seems to take into account more truth. And, which you would prefer to live under.

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    Founder's Club Member PrayingForWar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    Uh huh.

    You understand it wasn't all that many years ago that OCers were the target of very similar--shall we say--rationale?

    It was thoughtless to OC--cause it made people nervous. It was within the government's legitimate sphere to seize (detain) and investigate lawful OCers because, well, they might be up to something. And, (gasp!) they were doing something "intolerable"--carrying a gun. Or, so the "rationale" went.

    What you have written about government power and majority is called legal Positivism. It holds, among other things, that any law is legitimate because laws are all man-made. Positivism is the antithesis of natural rights, Natural Law--whether called the law of God or Nature. The concept of a Natural Law and natural rights holds that man-made laws, in order to be legitimate, must abide by or align with the law of Nature or God. Meaning, there is a higher law than man-made laws--the law of how the universe works, and how Man's mind and spirit work.

    Positivism. Natural Law. Natural rights. I'll let you all figure out which seems to take into account more truth. And, which you would prefer to live under.
    I can't argue with your premise. My (admittedly knee jerk) reaction to this behavior would provide the government with the authority to bash heads, and this would not advance collective freedom. I still maintain my assertion however that the authority ( in this case a soldier with a bayonette on his rifle) has the power to enforce codes of conduct on public property he has been commissioned to protect. This is a trivial issue (people acting like idiots at a memorial) compared to government authorities attempting too supress civil rights enshrined in the founding laws of the nation (OC). I see the parallel, but I think it's somewhat lacking.

    Furthermore when you speak of "natural law" are private property rights, self defense, speech, or any other rights those of us blessed enough to live in western civilization (are smart enough too) revere upheld as "God's Law" in places like China or the middle east? If there is a "higher law than man-made-laws" (which I believe there is, but there are a $#!tload of people who have their own laws which conflict with these and they insist these laws are also divine) who gets to decide these laws overide the sensibilities of the population in question?

    I prefer to live under a republican form of government, where what are supposed to educated people who's time and attention are devoted too public service get elected to positions of power in order to serve in the best interestes of their constituencies create laws (or just screw off and play golf but don't screw us) that promote prosperity and liberty.

    Just to ruffle your feathers I'll say Ron Paul would most effectively promote that agenda, but his foreign policy ignorance (or maybe pandering) make him unelectable.
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    Quote Originally Posted by PrayingForWar View Post
    SNIP Furthermore when you speak of "natural law" are private property rights, self defense, speech, or any other rights those of us blessed enough to live in western civilization (are smart enough too) revere upheld as "God's Law" in places like China or the middle east? If there is a "higher law than man-made-laws" (which I believe there is, but there are a $#!tload of people who have their own laws which conflict with these and they insist these laws are also divine) who gets to decide these laws overide the sensibilities of the population in question?
    You should look up natural rights and Natural Law. No gun rights or rights activist should be without the foundation.

    We enjoy the rights we do today precisely because the Founders understood Natural Law and natural rights, grasped the truth of them, and were willing to recognize them.

    "We hold these truths to be self-evident: that all men are created equal and are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights."

    How well did people understand this at that time? Later in life, John Adams remarked that there was nothing new in the second paragraph of the Decl. of Independ. The words were trite (his word).

    These ideas are the very foundation of natural rights and Natural Law. Whether one calls it God or nature, its laws are the fundamentals of the universe. An example would be the law of gravity is.

    You might start with looking up John Locke. In his Second Treatise on Government 1689, he explains at length. Very, very useful information. In that Locke wrote his piece almost ninety years before the American Revolution, it is easy to see why the ideas were somewhat commonplace by the time of the Revolution. Remember, the colonists that fired upon Gen. Gage's troops at Lexington and Concord were not Americans fighting Brits. They were Brits fighting Brits, demanding their rights as Englishmen. And, their idea of their rights was by then heavily influenced by Locke who was himself an Englishman. Side note: In Thomas Jefferson's private papers is an invoice for some books he ordered from England as a young man. Listed on the invoice is Second Treatise.

    An easy-to-read source on natural law and rights is the chapter on the same in Andrew Napolitano's book, Its Dangerous to be Right When the Government is Wrong. The entire book is very good. I found his explanation on natural rights to be a fast, easy to grasp explanation that did not require the commitment reading Second Treatise does. Plus, the book is an eye-popper on certain rights. For example, I had an instinct that the right to petition for redress of grievances was fair and righteous. I think we all do. Napolitano explains how it fits into a natural law and natural rights framework and into the framework of government. He does the same for due process.

    And, that is the key: understanding how to relate any given right to natural law. Once you grasp that, things really start falling into place for you.

    My purpose in relaying all this is not to slap you down, PFW. It is to arm you with something even bullets can't beat. Something of which every tyrant is afraid--ideas. Particularly these ideas.
    Last edited by Citizen; 11-11-2011 at 02:34 AM.

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    Regular Member DrakeZ07's Avatar
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    Just to add in my own personal opinion about the whole confrontation, and while I may be natural rebellious, yet submissive, I can help but to point out some things.

    I agree that the laughing in the crowd was a bit distasteful, especially when at a monument honoring our fallen soldiers. But, as someone pointed out, that is covered in our right to free speech. It's like public racism. Is it distasteful? yes, is it wrong, and harmful? perhaps. But as a Poly Sci teacher once said when I had a political history class at MSU; "You have a right to be offended, just as much as someone has a right to offend. You may not like it, but it's covered in our bill of rights."

    Now, seeing it be said that a soldier with a bayonet has the authority to enforce a trivial code of conduct, etc... So, that soldier has a right to suppress free speech because he may have been taught, and trained that respect and silence are superior? Hmm, why does that remind of a certain group of people, with state granted 'authority' to enforce a 'code of conduct' while wearing black uniforms adorned with skulls, and certain Norse runes?

    So, it's fine for a LEO to use their authority to enforce a 'code of conduct' in the form of policy, to supress a persons second amendment right to bear arms, just because a certain large numbered group of people deem OC to be distasteful, wrong, and such? I believe someone already made that point, but it doesn't hurt to help urge said point, does it?

    Oh wait, I forgot, I'm being very distasteful to compare that soldier's actions to those of the evil Waffen-SS, and how dare I compare the soldier to certain LEOs, right?

    Hey, if I was in the crowd, I'd have challenged the soldier's "authority", test to see how far he would have taken it, and if his lil uniformed buddies would have joined in to help curtail my free speech. Because I'm a left-wing socialist "hippy oxygen theif" who likes to challenge unlimited government authority, and their so called right to enforce baseless laws, and codes of conduct.

    So, did the soldiers at Kent State in ohio, have the authority to enforce a code of conduct on anti-war protestors by firing live rounds on then, in an effort to quell a legal protest and stop the legal usage of the right to free speech?

    Yep, just more wonderful reasons why we should submit to the government on every single thing, and every single issue, because they know what's best for us, and should help learn us on when to and when not to be respectful, and when we can and cannot use our Rights.
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  23. #23
    Regular Member okboomer's Avatar
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    He wasn't curtailing or denying anyone the right to free speech, he was insisting on courteous and respectful behavior at one of our nation's most somber memorial. As an Honor Guard, he is providing a standing, unbroken watch at the tomb of a fallen soldier who gave his life for the preservation of our way of life.

    Sometimes, people need to be reminded of their manners ... they were being disrespectful to the nation, our military, all our fallen, and themselves.

    As a Color Guard RIC, I was proud to care for the Regiment's colors ... with respect and dignity. I have also supplied a case of new flags to the local VFW after a massive wind storm last spring (70mph winds, gusts to 85). Within 3 days we had all the flags replaced in town.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    I hate to be the odd man out, but as a former Marine I have standing to comment.

    The First Amendment is not suspended at shrines.

    Giggling and joking is far, far from deliberate, calculated disrespect, such as, say, the preacher who was going around to military funerals saying dead soldiers were God's wrath for America's tolerance of homosexuals.

    It is one thing for the guard to request--which he did. And, the noisy ones shut up. But, they could just as well have continued--and we would be very wise to support their right to do so.

    Majority opinion and majority speech needs no protection in a democratic republic.

    Who is the government to decide to seize our tax dollars under threat and then assert that all must be silent and respectful at the locations it chooses?

    Especially when the demanded respect helps glorify the dead the government helped get killed? Glorification, honoring the dead? These play right into the hands of the sociopaths who lie us into war, I suspect. Below is a link to a very interesting video--a clip from an old movie. When taken together with Gen. Smedley Butler's (USMC) book, War is a Racket, the clip is definitely food for thought.

    So, while we may or may not be personally affronted by the giggling and laughing, I would recommend against supporting too strongly the government (guard) shutting up the "offenders"


    The mother has been pretending her husband and son are still alive: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qIeYp...eature=related
    All he did was make a request.
    Don't believe any facts that I say! This is the internet and it is filled with lies and untruth. I invite you to look up for yourself the basic facts that my arguments might be based upon. This way we can have a discussion where logic and hints on where to find information are what is brought to the forum and people look up and verify facts for themselves.

  25. #25
    Regular Member MilProGuy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by okboomer View Post
    He wasn't curtailing or denying anyone the right to free speech, he was insisting on courteous and respectful behavior at one of our nation's most somber memorial. As an Honor Guard, he is providing a standing, unbroken watch at the tomb of a fallen soldier who gave his life for the preservation of our way of life.

    Sometimes, people need to be reminded of their manners ... they were being disrespectful to the nation, our military, all our fallen, and themselves.

    As a Color Guard RIC, I was proud to care for the Regiment's colors ... with respect and dignity. I have also supplied a case of new flags to the local VFW after a massive wind storm last spring (70mph winds, gusts to 85). Within 3 days we had all the flags replaced in town.
    Thanks for a well-stated position on this discussion; and for reminding us that manners and respect for one of our nation's most revered traditions should never go out of style.

    There is, indeed, a time and a place for everything. The Book of Ecclesiastes clearly teaches this.
    Proud Veteran ~ U.S. Army / Army Reserve

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