OC in a near riot

Walt_Kowalski · Nov 10, 2011

peter nap said:
Here's the story on Tom Robinson BTW:

[h=1]Peninsula Patriots tell gun owners to cover up[/h]
Last week I wrote a story about apparently, anti gun actions by the Richmond Tea Party and associated groups. I offered to publish their side unedited. They chose to ignore my offer. As a result, I will not photograph any more of the Tea party events.
Yesterday, the Peninsula Patriots held their soiree. While inviting gun owners and Pro Second groups, they later asked people legally carrying weapons to put them away or cover up. I did not attend because of the reasons stated above.
One eyewitness said “while the land owners had previously said it was OK to open carry, after we’d been there about a half hour, the land owner came up to us and said that the Peninsula Patriots “Leadership” were not happy with us open carrying and wanted us to either conceal or remove our handguns. We were told the “Leadership” didn’t want us giving the media (one guy) reason to say we were “gun toten’ rednecks”.
Old Virginia is a Rural Affairs Group and while we are solidly behind gunowners and offer any support we can, leave the gun lobby to the experts at VCDL and GOA. As a group, we don’t have a dog in this fight.
As an individual, I Do! The following response by Tom Robinson is well written, well reasoned and with one glaring exception about classifying people who carry a gun….reasonable. It also smacks of deal making and political wrangling. Because of that I will still refuse to photograph any more rallies and I expect others will follow suit. You can’t pick and choose which parts of the Constitution a PRO CONSTITUTION group will support. It’s a package deal.
Tom Robinson’s response:
Good Morning Don,
I will be happy to answer your question. As an organizer for the Peninsula Patriots, I have been to many meetings, rallies, Tea Parties, Etc, both listening to, and presenting, 2nd Amendment speeches to those attending the events. In virtually EVERY case, a member of the media is present, with photographers, to “catch”
those choosing to openly carry at the events. The story is then changed to make the story about the “GUN” and not our RIGHT to carry one. I carry a gun every day, and have had occasions to use it to protect myself, and others, from certain death. Never, however, have I felt the necessity to display it openly as a “badge of courage”, although I will fight to the death to defend my right, and yours, to do so.
The Peninsula Patriots is a young, and still fragile, conservative movement.. We have already lost a few members who are afraid that we are becoming too vocal about the need to be prepared to use firearms, if necessary, to protect our freedoms. An open display of “gun totin’ Patriots, not Rednecks”, is very unsettling to many Americans, and we can’t afford to alienate current, and potential, members at this crucial time in our movement.
Please allow me to ask you a few questions…
1. Knowing that you have the right to own and carry a weapon virtually anywhere throughout Virginia, WHY do you feel the need to brandish your weapons openly in a friendly, non-threatening, environment? Were you concerned that you were going to be attacked by some unknown alien forces while attending a Patriotic rally?
2. Several of those attending were actually making comical statements about one of your members who felt the need to not only openly carry a fully-loaded, semi-automatic weapon to a conservative rally, but also felt it necessary to carry multiple extra clips and other paraphernalia, just in case we came under a massive attack. Do you not realize that the legal, but inappropriate, “in your face” display of weaponry probably did your, and my, movement more harm than good?
3. To put this in a more logical perspective…Virtually every Virginian, with the exception of felons and nut cases, has the right to openly carry a weapon, so that part is no big deal. It is your license to carry a CONCEALED weapon that sets you apart from those who don’t possess a similar permit. That being said…You may have a fishing license, but do you feel compelled to carry your rod and reel to the movies? You have a license to drive a car, but do you feel it is necessary to park it next to you at church? I could go on and on.
Although I have spent many years in law enforcement internationally, both in counter-terrorism and counter-drug activities, I am also actively involved in marketing and public relations. Knowing the correct time and place to “show your wares”
is a key component in successfully “selling” your products, services and ideas. Presenting your members as “casual commandos”
in yesterday’s friendly, non-threatening setting was clearly “overkill”, and turned many potential members away from your worthy cause.
As a professional in the field of law enforcement I would like to give a little sage advice. Law enforcement agencies train their officers to pay close attention to anyone who feels compelled to openly brandish a loaded weapon in public. Those openly carrying are put in various categories and observed accordingly. 1st. Power trip – The need to present the appearance of power to overcome feelings of inadequacy. 2nd. Need for authority - All too often, those individuals openly carrying weapons wanted to be a police officer with the power, but not the responsibility, that goes with the job. They were rejected for various reasons, usually psychological, followed by obesity, at which point many of them applied for positions as deputy sheriffs, then private security officers…anything that would give them a feeling of power over others. Although I am not accusing any members of your group of fitting into that category, it is a profile observed by most agencies and officers.
Don, I am 100% behind you, and I applaud your continuing efforts to protect our 2nd Amendment rights. I am just trying to use years’
of experience to assist you in waging a just and Holy war against those who would quickly deprive us of our freedoms if given half a chance. HooRah. Keep up the great work you are doing for ALL Americans.
All the best,
Tom

Wow .. just WOW. Sounds like someone is not who they think they are. Clips, openly brandinsh, wanna be cop? I'd love to sit down and point out all the flaws in that argument.

Repeater · Nov 10, 2011

Grapeshot said:
Totally inadequate duct tape alert.

Tom destroyed any credibility he may have had with his misapplication of terms. His reply is very self-centered elitism and his conclusions are flawed.

+ 9 9 9

Just saying ...

Baked on Grease · Nov 10, 2011

Out of everything interesting in this thread, this caught my attention most.

peter nap said:
I had to buy a small Drone for a client that wanted aerial video of his house. If they're still there next week when I come back, I'll test it out there:lol:

Pics! the plane, we must see it. I love anything aerial, how much did that cost you?

Sent using tapatalk

Phoenix David · Nov 10, 2011

peter nap said:
Things were noisy but non violent until the Cops decided to start arresting people for covering their faces (Felony arrests).

It's illegal in your area to cover your face?

VApatriot · Nov 10, 2011

Phoenix David said:
It's illegal in your area to cover your face?

Virginia Code § 18.2-422 - Prohibition of wearing of masks in certain places; exceptions.

It shall be unlawful for any person over sixteen years of age while wearing any mask, hood or other device whereby a substantial portion of the face is hidden or covered so as to conceal the identity of the wearer, to be or appear in any public place, or upon any private property in this Commonwealth without first having obtained from the owner or tenant thereof consent to do so in writing. However, the provisions of this section shall not apply to persons (i) wearing traditional holiday costumes; (ii) engaged in professions, trades, employment or other activities and wearing protective masks which are deemed necessary for the physical safety of the wearer or other persons; (iii) engaged in any bona fide theatrical production or masquerade ball; or (iv) wearing a mask, hood or other device for bona fide medical reasons upon the advice of a licensed physician or osteopath and carrying on his person an affidavit from the physician or osteopath specifying the medical necessity for wearing the device and the date on which the wearing of the device will no longer be necessary and providing a brief description of the device. The violation of any provisions of this section shall constitute a Class 6 felony.

(Code 1950, 18.1-364, 18.1-367; 1960, c. 358; 1975, cc. 14, 15; 1986, c.19.)

Repeater · Nov 10, 2011

VApatriot said:
Virginia Code § 18.2-422 - Prohibition of wearing of masks in certain places; exceptions.

It shall be unlawful for any person over sixteen years of age while wearing any mask, hood or other device whereby a substantial portion of the face is hidden or covered so as to conceal the identity of the wearer, to be or appear in any public place, or upon any private property in this Commonwealth without first having obtained from the owner or tenant thereof consent to do so in writing. However, the provisions of this section shall not apply to persons (i) wearing traditional holiday costumes; (ii) engaged in professions, trades, employment or other activities and wearing protective masks which are deemed necessary for the physical safety of the wearer or other persons; (iii) engaged in any bona fide theatrical production or masquerade ball; or (iv) wearing a mask, hood or other device for bona fide medical reasons upon the advice of a licensed physician or osteopath and carrying on his person an affidavit from the physician or osteopath specifying the medical necessity for wearing the device and the date on which the wearing of the device will no longer be necessary and providing a brief description of the device. The violation of any provisions of this section shall constitute a Class 6 felony.

(Code 1950, 18.1-364, 18.1-367; 1960, c. 358; 1975, cc. 14, 15; 1986, c.19.)

Can't have Grand Wizards holding bonfires while carrying themselves concealed. Seriously, that's why the law exists.

67GT390FB · Nov 10, 2011

Repeater said:
Can't have Grand Wizards holding bonfires while carrying themselves concealed. Seriously, that's why the law exists.

A lot of people forget that Virginia is the South and there are a lot of laws on the books like this one that deal with things like the Klan(KKK) even if they aren't spelled out in black and white(pun intended). Its also why Virginia's redistricting plans must be approved by the feds(DOJ) so we are lucky to have the 20-20 split we got in the State Senate.

Phoenix David · Nov 10, 2011

Wonder when the last time it was challenged, seems overreaching. Now if they had said while committing an illegal act. So if it's cold and I want to keep my face warm it's a felony. Or I want to peacefully protest the governments overreaching use of video surveillance by wearing a Richard Nixon mask it's a felony.

peter nap · Nov 10, 2011

Baked on Grease said:
Out of everything interesting in this thread, this caught my attention most.

Pics! the plane, we must see it. I love anything aerial, how much did that cost you?

Sent using tapatalk

I'll PM one as soon as it comes in It's a quadcopter. A lot easier to fly than the Heli I keep crashing:uhoh:

peter nap · Nov 10, 2011

Phoenix David said:
Wonder when the last time it was challenged, seems overreaching. Now if they had said while committing an illegal act. So if it's cold and I want to keep my face warm it's a felony. Or I want to peacefully protest the governments overreaching use of video surveillance by wearing a Richard Nixon mask it's a felony.

I don't have the cite handy but the Supreme Court has interpreted "with the intent to deceive".
That gets all us old people off the hook when we wear dust masks in the summer. Most cops don't know that and unfortunately, it was pretty clear why they were wearing scarfs. They'd have been better with dust masks or better yet, gas masks.

My first falling out with Bill Bolling was when I asked him to introduce the change because I always wear a mask when hunting. He said "Law Enforcement always uses common sense".
That's when I realized he was a dumb bastard and not worth talking to anymore.

va_tazdad · Nov 11, 2011

Guess I missed this "training"

As a professional in the field of law enforcement I would like to give a little sage advice. Law enforcement agencies train their officers to pay close attention to anyone who feels compelled to openly brandish a loaded weapon in public. Those openly carrying are put in various categories and observed accordingly. 1st. Power trip – The need to present the appearance of power to overcome feelings of inadequacy. 2nd. Need for authority - All too often, those individuals openly carrying weapons wanted to be a police officer with the power, but not the responsibility, that goes with the job. They were rejected for various reasons, usually psychological, followed by obesity, at which point many of them applied for positions as deputy sheriffs, then private security officers…anything that would give them a feeling of power over others. Although I am not accusing any members of your group of fitting into that category, it is a profile observed by most agencies and officers.

"Law enforcement agencies train their officers to pay close attention to anyone who feels compelled to openly brandish a loaded weapon in public."

This part is true.

But since when is carrying "brandishing" in Virginia ??????

The rest of this “statement” is garbage.

As to the final sentence, “Although I am not accusing any members of your group of fitting into that category, it is a profile observed by most agencies and officers.” this is just poor education and training.

But these, like Tom’s statements, are just MY opinion.

Skeptic · Nov 11, 2011

Knowing that you have the right to own and carry a weapon virtually anywhere throughout Virginia, WHY do you feel the need to brandish your weapons openly in a friendly, non-threatening, environment? Were you concerned that you were going to be attacked by some unknown alien forces while attending a Patriotic rally?

THIS right here may make me bang my head the most, because that is the argument given by the douchiest of Antis.

They need to enlighten us, where is the list that tells us where and when we might be attacked or subjected to violence, so that we may avoid those places at those times. I mean if we knew when and where we would need to defend ourselves from a criminal, I think it is fair to say many if not most would simply be elsewhere at that time, if there were any choice.

Meanwhile, knowing that they have a first amendment right to free speech, why do they really feel the need to "brandish their mouth" to a friendly rally of people who already agree with them?

ProShooter · Nov 11, 2011

As a professional in the field of law enforcement I would like to give a little sage advice. Law enforcement agencies train their officers to pay close attention to anyone who feels compelled to openly brandish a loaded weapon in public. Those openly carrying are put in various categories and observed accordingly. 1st. Power trip – The need to present the appearance of power to overcome feelings of inadequacy. 2nd. Need for authority - All too often, those individuals openly carrying weapons wanted to be a police officer with the power, but not the responsibility, that goes with the job. They were rejected for various reasons, usually psychological, followed by obesity, at which point many of them applied for positions as deputy sheriffs, then private security officers…anything that would give them a feeling of power over others. Although I am not accusing any members of your group of fitting into that category, it is a profile observed by most agencies and officers.

I can promise you that in my academy, the topic of open carry was never addressed....good, bad, or indifferent.

Skeptic · Nov 11, 2011

BTW be careful shooting out there Peter, the police arent the only ones who may not like you shooting if stuff turns ugly like they have in Oakland and Denver.

Skeptic · Nov 11, 2011

riverrat10k said:
I had a feeling if you went and talked to these people, you would find that they are not as they are being portrayed by the media.

So wait, the signs with Marx quotes and calling for a Class War were created and planted by the media? Because the impression I get is they are statist socialists who want to end corporations under the foot of an all powerful direct democracy mob rule that has no respect for individual or property rights.

But of course I would only get that idea from their own signs and some of the interviews I have heard. Like the guy who is there to make everything free since it comes from "the Erf". Or the hundreds of letters from kids bitching that they decided to go 150K into debt and took 6 years to get a bachelor's degree in comparative women's lit with a minor in far eastern philosophy and somehow that is my fault, or the fault of companies who wont make jobs specifically for their useless skills.

ixtow · Nov 11, 2011

I find the anti-occupy trolling in this thread odd in the face of how obvious it is that they'll attack anyone just for fun....

They first came for the AWS protesters, but it wasn't my problem and my TV told me to hate them for not being good sheep like me, so I did as my TV told me...

Then, they came for....

Meh, I'm not casting the Niemoller Pearl before this swine again, am I?

Hang together or hang apart. Maybe you don't agree with how they protest, but they are 100% right in their cause. Plenty of people disagree with OC, too... We're nothing more than "Occupy Holster."

Working hard to feed the beast that has destroyed America is nothing to be proud of... I agree with hard work. I'll bust my ass 16 hours a day for minimum wage; as long as my labors aren't being twisted against my fellow man. I will not be hired to rivet chains upon my fellow sufferers.

If your political faction is so important to you that you refuse to figure that out... Herp a Derp, you're an idiot. Left vs. Right is merely a form of dirty patriotism that divides and and convinces us to conquer ourselves... Singular patriotism is bad enough, dividing against yourselves when you damn well know it is stupid... Why? It's like so-called 'professional' wrestling... Political factions aren't really enemies, they're just hoping you're dumb enough to think they are. And, they're right. America is that stupid.

Skeptic · Nov 11, 2011

ixtow said:
I find the anti-occupy trolling in this thread odd in the face of how obvious it is that they'll attack anyone just for fun....

They first came for the AWS protesters, but it wasn't my problem and my TV told me to hate them for not being good sheep like me, so I did as my TV told me...

Then, they came for....

Meh, I'm not casting the Niemoller Pearl before this swine again, am I?

Hang together or hang apart. Maybe you don't agree with how they protest, but they are 100% right in their cause. Plenty of people disagree with OC, too... We're nothing more than "Occupy Holster."

Working hard to feed the beast that has destroyed America is nothing to be proud of... I agree with hard work. I'll bust my ass 16 hours a day for minimum wage; as long as my labors aren't being twisted against my fellow man. I will not be hired to rivet chains upon my fellow sufferers.

If your political faction is so important to you that you refuse to figure that out... Herp a Derp, you're an idiot. Left vs. Right is merely a form of dirty patriotism that divides and and convinces us to conquer ourselves... Singular patriotism is bad enough, dividing against yourselves when you damn well know it is stupid... Why? It's like so-called 'professional' wrestling... Political factions aren't really enemies, they're just hoping you're dumb enough to think they are. And, they're right. America is that stupid.

The beast that destroyed America is socialism, and the protesters are calling for more meat for that beast.
They are the ones calling for a class war, and to kill the rich. That is no media spin, that is their own signs. Sorry, not down with that kind of cause . That is not a cause that is going to lead to either prosperity or to liberty. And socialists have a pretty strong tendency to round up guns once they get in charge.

2a4all · Nov 12, 2011

According to reports I've heard on Rush & Hannity, the OWS "we've been sold out" crowd is being taught that being expected to share with other non-contributors what they've gathered to support themselves "isn't right or fair".:uhoh:

JamesB · Nov 12, 2011

peter nap said:
I had to buy a small Drone for a client that wanted aerial video of his house. If they're still there next week when I come back, I'll test it out there:lol:

I need me one of these: http://timesfreepress.com/news/2011/oct/31/why-is-that-hummingbird-following-me/

JamesB · Nov 12, 2011

ProShooter said:
I kind of wish these protestors would go and occupy a J O B.

I'd like to see a couple of them occupy Constitution Ave.

Skeptic said:
BTW be careful shooting out there Peter, the police arent the only ones who may not like you shooting if stuff turns ugly like they have in Oakland and Denver.

Na, nothing has really happened here in Denver. I was down there for the first night of arrests and stuff. They tore down the tents, but boots were not applied to anything anotomical. A few were arrested, but I personally don't think it's protected free speech to spit in the face of a cop.

Lots of sound and fury on both sides... still meant nothing.

OC in a near riot

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