• We are now running on a new, and hopefully much-improved, server. In addition we are also on new forum software. Any move entails a lot of technical details and I suspect we will encounter a few issues as the new server goes live. Please be patient with us. It will be worth it! :) Please help by posting all issues here.
  • The forum will be down for about an hour this weekend for maintenance. I apologize for the inconvenience.
  • If you are having trouble seeing the forum then you may need to clear your browser's DNS cache. Click here for instructions on how to do that
  • Please review the Forum Rules frequently as we are constantly trying to improve the forum for our members and visitors.

MWAG call for mowing my lawn

oldbanger

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 19, 2010
Messages
475
Location
beckofbeyond - Idaho
I had a sheriffs deputy come knocking at my door one morning, he was returning a family member that had wandered off the range the night before.
I went out the door and I was OC, we talked a bit and then he said "do you have ID"?, I said no, he said "well don't you have a drivers license"?, I said yes but not on me and anyway I'm not driving.
He said "well we ask for ID when we interact with people"!
I said goodbye. :dude:
 

RetiredOC

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Dec 21, 2009
Messages
1,561
I didn't think they had to be registered but I bought it new at A retail gun shop so I figured it was.

Why does EVERYONE I know think that a 4473 is gun registration?


EDIT: example

"DUDE YOU SOLD THAT GUN!?!?! BUT IT IS REGISTERED TO YOUR NAME WHAT IF THEY COMMIT A CRIME!?!?!?"
 
Last edited:

RetiredOC

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Dec 21, 2009
Messages
1,561
Oh its registered since he bought it retail! just not legally registered, but that is a far different discussion...

162bg47qz.jpg
 

Fallschirjmäger

Active member
Joined
Aug 4, 2007
Messages
3,823
Location
Cumming, Georgia, USA
Maybe it's one of those multiple choice things, you know.....?

1) Legally registered
2) Illegally registered
3) Not legally registered
4) Not registered

I bought one o' them George Forman grills once, even sent in the waranty card. I'm sure the company has my name in a database somewhere. Doesn't mean it's registered to me, it just proves who the buyer was at retail.
 
Last edited:

Dreamer

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 23, 2009
Messages
5,360
Location
Grennsboro NC
So I respectfully gave the officer my ID and told him that my gun was registered and I am just mowing my lawn. He asked me why I thought i needed a gun to mow my lawn and I told him that i simply always have it on me.

My response to that question is to ask them why THEY think they need a gun. Sometimes they "get it", sometimes they don't. The ones who don't get it usually respond with some sort of elitist crap about training and duty. I don't like to get into dick-waving contests with cops, but I can guarantee that the qualification score I got on my NC CHP quals was higher than about 99% of the LEO's annual qual scores. And I doubt that few of them can quote NC gun law statutes by number and section either. And few (if any) of them are competitive shooters, and almost none of them are NRA-qualified instructors...


The officer was very understanding thankfully and told me that if I wanted to I could tell him to "pack sand" and that it was my right to carry on my property. I told him I would keep it under a cover garment next time since I have a concealed carry permit and I certainly don't want to "induce panic". By the way I live in Columbus Ohio and I've only posted this on open carry forum for I would probably be called idiotic for open carrying anywhere else. Just wanted some feedback thanks guys.

You did well, considering it was your first time. You maintained a polite demeanor, and you complied in a non-confrontational manner.

However, I agree with most of the statements made by others.

First off, The cop was wrong when he qualified your right to OC as being "on your own property". In OH, OC is legal just about ANYWHERE that you may legally possess a firearm--including in public OFF your own property.

Second, OH has no "stop and identify" law. You have no legal obligation to provide your DL unless you are operating a motor vehicle. You have no legal obligation to provide your carry permit unless you are CCing. Name, address, and "Am I being detained" are the only thing you should say to an LEO...

Third, OH has no gun registration.

Fourth, You should have never initiated contact. Make him come onto your property. Make him initiate conversation. I would have just kept mowing, and ignoring him until he made it perfectly clear that HE wanted to say something, at which point I would have politely asked him to leave my property, because I had not called for him. If he started in with that old "I'm investigating a report of a MWAG" spiel, I would have told him, "well, I'll keep an eye out for anyone who looks suspicious", and started the mower back up... :rolleyes:

Fifth, you didn't have a recorder of any kind on your person. You should ALWAYS carry a recorder--a digital voice recorder or a smartphone for video or something. As soon as the cruiser rolled up, I would have started the recorder...

You did OK--no problems, and the cop--although SERIOUSLY wrong about parts of the law--was polite and didn't run you much of an attitude (at least not compared to SOME cops in OH...) But letting LEOs intimidate you with a badge into being servile and overly polite only teaches them that they can walk on our rights without any sort of repercussions.

FOIA the call that initiated the stop. Find out who called it in, and then invite them over for dinner next weekend. But be SURE you are OCing when you answer the door... :banana:
 
Last edited:

MilProGuy

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 7, 2011
Messages
1,210
Location
Mississippi
Like I said the officer was understanding and he did wait on the sidewalk for me to approach so i felt there was mutual respect.He asked for my ID, told me that I didn't need to but I gave it to him anyway. I wanted to cordially end the situation without looking like an ahole. I understand that some people who open carry are kind of shock troopers and love to rile the cops but that's not my personality I would like to just mind my own which I understand can be quite difficult if you open carry. Really, if I had the money I would just move to the country and be alright but I need to go to school and live in the city for a while longer. I know that it's my right to carry but it certainly doesn't feel that way!

Everybody on this forum would have probably responded in their own way.

Personally, I think you handled the situation very well.
 

okboomer

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 18, 2009
Messages
1,164
Location
Oklahoma, USA
Well, I think Rustin did GREAT! At 22, he is more aware of his rights than I was at that age ... of course, it was a different time and I hadn't completely thrown off the "compliance" shackles :banghead: ... in the corps I had no choice but to comply :lol:

The way I see it, the LEO now has no reason to respond "lights and sirens" to a MWAG call at that address, and has probably passed the word to others. Next, whomever made the call, they have their name and probably phone number ... things like this have a way of coming back and biting in the a$$. Lastly, in any future contact with that particular officer, Rustin will more likely be able to insist on his rights being respected with less chance of being seen as "contempt of cop."

Each contact with LEO is an opportunity to further their view of you as a dependable, reasonable, knowledgeable Citizen as opposed to being seen as a subject. Now, if they are investigating a shooting at the local quick stop and happen to have opportunity to ask me for ID ... well, I am not there to make their job any harder than it has to be, so I would definitely comply ... they are seriously wanting to "dot the i's and cross the t's" and that means eliminating as many suspects as possible as quickly as possible. If an officer is just being a jacka$$, well, I earned my reputation as a b*tch :lol: (you get that in a small town when you don't take guff from folks)
 

hermannr

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 24, 2011
Messages
2,327
Location
Okanogan Highland
Maybe it is time to remind everyone. It is not our problem to prove our weapon is ours, that we are within the law and not doing anything wrong.

It is their problem to prove the weapon is not ours, or we are not doing what we should. And they are quite restricted in the methods they can use to do that.

It is basic to our legal system that you are innocent until proven guilty. Therein stands the basis of all interactions with the police.
 

Badger Johnson

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 12, 2011
Messages
1,213
Location
USA
Thanks everybody. I understand that I didn't need to give him my ID. I could have just given him my name which I is legally required in OHIO anyway, but he politely ASKED, not demanded. Like I said the officer was respectful and I didn't get the feeling that he was ordering me to do anything in fact he told me I could just walk away but I wanted to be polite to the police who patrol my neighborhood.:p I live on the corner of a 4 way stop so I don't think my neighbors called. The registration part threw me off .I didn't think they had to be registered but I bought it new at A retail gun shop so I figured it was.I haven't really quit open carrying I just don't like to do it so much anymore. I know that I should stand up for my rights but I am literally the only person I have EVER seen open carrying in columbus Ohio and I ride my bike all throughout the city so it's not like I don't get around. and I meant to edit out that "not all cops are bad!" part out it just sounds condescending , :banghead:sorry. Now I kinda feel stupid for bringing it up, people painting me as some benedict arnold for not fighting tooth and nail for my rights and telling this nice officer to eff off , but hey that's what the internet is all about anyway;).

I think this guy's a troll. He posts in the form of a question and he gets a lot of replies many of them offer the SAME advice, explain why and talk about being reserved but respectful. NOW the OP posts he's sorry he asked, disregards ALL the advice and characterizes some of it like we're saying 'EFF OFF' and nobody has said that.

"Fighting tooth and nail" - nope, nobody said that.

To the OP: "Buddy, cops are there for ONLY one thing - to find something to arrest you for and if you start talking, remember they have YEARS of experience in appearing 'nice' and 'cordial' and talking you into incriminating yourself. You make a mis-statement and now you've lied to a cop. A skilled LEO can talk someone who is completely innocent into being arrested in a matter of minutes.

You wanted advice and you got good, sage advice. Why spit on it and LIE and make up responses in your summary?

$.02
 

sudden valley gunner

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 13, 2008
Messages
16,674
Location
Whatcom County
Maybe it is time to remind everyone. It is not our problem to prove our weapon is ours, that we are within the law and not doing anything wrong.

It is their problem to prove the weapon is not ours, or we are not doing what we should. And they are quite restricted in the methods they can use to do that.

It is basic to our legal system that you are innocent until proven guilty. Therein stands the basis of all interactions with the police.

+1

A skilled LEO can talk someone who is completely innocent into being arrested in a matter of minutes.


$.02

+1 And why we should never volunteer information to cops.

I would like to ad SCOTUS ruling that police can lie in the course of an investigation has given us no choice but to assume they are all lying to us and we are all under investigation.

I have made the mistake in the past assuming the police were there to help me, was even volunteering information, because I felt wronged and thought the police were there to help. Ends up the police knew old man "so and so" and a new set of police came and discussed things with the two I was talking with and then I end up in the back of the car because they used the very info I gave them and decided to interpret it another way. Apparently getting upset when someone tries to run over you twice and then sucker punches you is "public disturbance" and "menacing". Of course this is the same police department that kept someones gun after he displayed it in self defense, tried to prosecute him, for "brandishing" and ignored a judges orders to return the weapon for sometime.
 

Dreamer

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 23, 2009
Messages
5,360
Location
Grennsboro NC
It is basic to our legal system that you are innocent until proven guilty.

Please provide a citation for this assertion. US Constitution, State Constitution, or Any Federal, State, or Local Statute, Code, or Regulation.

I'll wait...

You sir are sadly mistaken if you honestly believe that "innocent until proven guilty" is anything more than some made-up panacea for the public to lull them into a sense of complacency when they are forced to interact with LE or the Courts. No such guarantee of treatment is enumerated in the US Constitution, or in any state or local law, code, or statute.

It is a myth, and a particularly heinous one at that, that the Courts, Lawyers, an LE's have perpetrated on the public so that we live under the delusion that the Legal System is somehow in service of the People, when in fact the MINUTE a LEO accuses you of something you are deemed GUILTY by the entire system, and it is YOUR burden to shoot holes in THEIR case.

THAT is the way our legal system REALLY works. It has NOTHING to do with "justice"--it is a cult, and if you are non an anointed Priest or Acolyte (Bar-certified lawyer or LEO) then you are PRESUMED to be guilty from the get-go, and an enemy of the Temple...


Therein stands the basis of all interactions with the police.

Except that your assertion is entirely false.

Interactions with LEOs should NEVER be openly adversarial, but we must ALWAYS remain cognizant of the fact that they DO NOT see themselves as "public servants". They see themselves as Agents of the State, and their ONLY duty (and the SCOTUS and several State SC's have upheld this) is to serve the interests of their employing corporation (City, or State), and their ONLY duties are to protect their employers, collect revenue, and keep the "subjects" in line per directives of their employing corporation.

Wake up people. This isn't Rocket Science.

I'm not saying that ALL cops are bad, but they ARE all foot-soldiers for the ruling sociopaths in our society--even the good cops. And the Courts are upholding (and therefore giving official blessing to) the actions and policies of sociopathic government officials, thuggish cops, and discriminatory bureaucrats with increasing frequency these days.

Good, intelligent, honorable cops and lawyers don't last long in the system these days--ask Robert Jordan from New London CT, or Judge Andrew Napolitano...

http://www.nytimes.com/1999/09/09/n...rules-that-police-can-bar-high-iq-scores.html
 
Last edited:

Daylen

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 29, 2010
Messages
2,223
Location
America
Please provide a citation for this assertion. US Constitution, State Constitution, or Any Federal, State, or Local Statute, Code, or Regulation.

I'll wait...

You sir are sadly mistaken if you honestly believe that "innocent until proven guilty" is anything more than some made-up panacea for the public to lull them into a sense of complacency when they are forced to interact with LE or the Courts. No such guarantee of treatment is enumerated in the US Constitution, or in any state or local law, code, or statute.
...

The presumption of innocence is part of the judicial system and comes from old English common law. While not directly codified in the constitution, the concept can be found in places such as the 4th and 5th amendments. What you seem to be upset about is caused by the existence of professional, government ordained law enforcement; along with the jurisprudence needed to keep them alive and out of jail when they break the law.

Edit: oh I almost forgot the prosecution of criminal cases being taken from the people and held by the states and federals exclusively. Basically we are no longer policing and ruling ourselves, instead another class does such...
 
Last edited:

sudden valley gunner

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 13, 2008
Messages
16,674
Location
Whatcom County
The presumption of innocence is part of the judicial system and comes from old English common law. While not directly codified in the constitution, the concept can be found in places such as the 4th and 5th amendments. What you seem to be upset about is caused by the existence of professional, government ordained law enforcement; along with the jurisprudence needed to keep them alive and out of jail when they break the law.

Edit: oh I almost forgot the prosecution of criminal cases being taken from the people and held by the states and federals exclusively. Basically we are no longer policing and ruling ourselves, instead another class does such...

+1

I do agree with Dreamers it has become a cult thing too though...

Our country was founded on the legal principals of old English law as spelled out by Blackstone, his Commentaries book was one of the best selling if not the best selling book in the colonies.
 

Freedom First

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 8, 2010
Messages
845
Location
Kennewick, Wa.
...Edit: oh I almost forgot the prosecution of criminal cases being taken from the people and held by the states and federals exclusively. Basically we are no longer policing and ruling ourselves, instead another class does such...


Excellent point. I'm going to do some digging along this line. Thanks!
 

Rustin

New member
Joined
Nov 9, 2011
Messages
9
Location
ohio
Hey I'm not a "troll" , I think I just come off as a little stupid on the internet. I didn't say that I was sorry for asking or that I regretted it, only said that I feel kind of stupid for asking since i really don't know all of my rights(go figure) and thought that maybe I did the wrong thing. I am just trying to learn so please forgive my ignorance. Seems like you have to do alot of research to find out which rights we have and which rights we don't. They don't really tell you in school.I just want to avoid confrontation with the police if at all possible but I will NEVER give up my rights if I know them. Why is everything so different just from state to state? I want the public to know that there is nothing wrong with open carry but some of these people act like your a terrorist and if they don't intervene that something tragic will inevitably occur. I just can't believe it sometimes. Anyway thanks for the advice everyone.
 

hjmoosejaw

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 29, 2011
Messages
406
Location
N.W. Pa.
You did good for 22 years old.

I agree with most of the replies about not giving up your rights. However, since you brought up the age thing, I think you did good. Like you said, you were caught off guard. A lot of us older folks are also, from time to time, in many aspects of life. That said, you brought the experience to light , inviting input from which to learn. It shows your maturity . A lot of young bucks your age (feeling their oats) might have said or did something stupid to only escalate the situation into something worse. Live and learn. Ya did okay!
 

Daylen

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 29, 2010
Messages
2,223
Location
America
Hey I'm not a "troll" , I think I just come off as a little stupid on the internet. I didn't say that I was sorry for asking or that I regretted it, only said that I feel kind of stupid for asking since i really don't know all of my rights(go figure) and thought that maybe I did the wrong thing. I am just trying to learn so please forgive my ignorance. Seems like you have to do alot of research to find out which rights we have and which rights we don't. They don't really tell you in school.I just want to avoid confrontation with the police if at all possible but I will NEVER give up my rights if I know them. Why is everything so different just from state to state? I want the public to know that there is nothing wrong with open carry but some of these people act like your a terrorist and if they don't intervene that something tragic will inevitably occur. I just can't believe it sometimes. Anyway thanks for the advice everyone.

Don't sweat the "troll" thing, some people throw that accusation out any time someone doesn't agree with them, or try to get people banned for having a differing opinion or view.
 

Badger Johnson

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 12, 2011
Messages
1,213
Location
USA
Please provide a citation for this assertion. US Constitution, State Constitution, or Any Federal, State, or Local Statute, Code, or Regulation.

I'm not saying that ALL cops are bad, but they ARE all foot-soldiers for the ruling sociopaths in our society--even the good cops. And the Courts are upholding (and therefore giving official blessing to) the actions and policies of sociopathic government officials, thuggish cops, and discriminatory bureaucrats with increasing frequency these days.

I now realize that there is a new analysis of the 'not all cops are bad' paradigm. Basically, if you don't stop a 'bad' cop, and you are a cop and see it, you are part of the problem. So I think it's fair to say that 'cops are 'bad for you'' until proven otherwise. It's adversarial, always remember that. A cop is not there like a service professional to give you a free estimate of the situation, not there to help you, not there to give advice (unless your particular cop shows the contrary).

You can't go wrong by:
1. Being polite;
2. Being quiet - not over sharing;
3. Being cognizant of the fact that you are under the lens as the 'reporting victim', not the bad guy. You are -there-, the BG is usually not there;
4. Asking if you're 'obliged to do a/b/c'. Remember if you give permission you give up your rights;
5. Recording the encounter (be aware of local laws). Some places you can video and not audio (debatable);
6. Making yourself a 'cheat sheet' - not to give to the cop but to refer to for ordinance numbers and citations;
7. Be prepared. Be prepared to give up the firearm you had to use or had on your person. Have the number of a lawyer on hand.

...and so on.

$.02
 
Last edited:
Top