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MWAG call for mowing my lawn

glockluva

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 4, 2011
Messages
18
Location
Montgomery county
i actually frequent ohio quiet often because my wife works their and i'm in pa...

ohio does not have firearms registration because my wife has bought me firearms in and i have been stopped w/ them in pa (which also doesn't have firearms registration)

i also oc in ohio on my fl permit and i get strange looks from people and its probably because i'm a blackman with a firearm on his hip, but no one says a word to me edge wise althought the gun buster signs annoy the hell out of me because i see those places as perfect targets for criminals...

anyhow no you don't need to be and azz when dealing with the cops but at the same time i'll be damned if i'm on my own property minding my business etc and then to flip it, how do they know you were the property owner...

personally i think you've created some kind of repor with cbus finest and atleast now they know if they see you, that you aren't the threat... atleast i would hope this to be the case...
 

wrightme

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 19, 2008
Messages
5,574
Location
Fallon, Nevada, USA
Like I said the officer was understanding and he did wait on the sidewalk for me to approach so i felt there was mutual respect.He asked for my ID, told me that I didn't need to but I gave it to him anyway. I wanted to cordially end the situation without looking like an ahole. I understand that some people who open carry are kind of shock troopers and love to rile the cops but that's not my personality I would like to just mind my own which I understand can be quite difficult if you open carry. Really, if I had the money I would just move to the country and be alright but I need to go to school and live in the city for a while longer. I know that it's my right to carry but it certainly doesn't feel that way!

Standing up for your Rights does not equate to being "shock troops."


A simple "No," to the request for ID should be more than sufficient, and doesn't make you look like an ahole. Further, if you are within your Rights to go openly armed while mowing your lawn, there is no rational reason to feel compelled to cover up, 'to avoid upsetting the neighbors....'

The more you cover, the more often you engender the vision of others that leads you to your "it certainly doesn't feel that way!"


Now, at your age, I doubt that I would have:
a) been openly armed where public could see me
b) come even remotely close to handling it as well as you did
c) had the guts to share it on the internets (which were barely a gleam in AlGore's eyes yet back then ) hehe
 
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wrightme

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 19, 2008
Messages
5,574
Location
Fallon, Nevada, USA
Thanks everybody. I understand that I didn't need to give him my ID. I could have just given him my name which I is legally required in OHIO anyway, but he politely ASKED, not demanded. Like I said the officer was respectful and I didn't get the feeling that he was ordering me to do anything in fact he told me I could just walk away but I wanted to be polite to the police who patrol my neighborhood.:p I live on the corner of a 4 way stop so I don't think my neighbors called. The registration part threw me off .I didn't think they had to be registered but I bought it new at A retail gun shop so I figured it was.I haven't really quit open carrying I just don't like to do it so much anymore. I know that I should stand up for my rights but I am literally the only person I have EVER seen open carrying in columbus Ohio and I ride my bike all throughout the city so it's not like I don't get around. and I meant to edit out that "not all cops are bad!" part out it just sounds condescending , :banghead:sorry. Now I kinda feel stupid for bringing it up, people painting me as some benedict arnold for not fighting tooth and nail for my rights and telling this nice officer to eff off , but hey that's what the internet is all about anyway;).

Cite? Does Ohio require citizens to account for their presence absent RAS?


Unless there was reason to believe you were acting unlawfully, there should NOT be reason to provide your identity to LE.
 

wrightme

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 19, 2008
Messages
5,574
Location
Fallon, Nevada, USA
My response to that question is to ask them why THEY think they need a gun. Sometimes they "get it", sometimes they don't. The ones who don't get it usually respond with some sort of elitist crap about training and duty. I don't like to get into dick-waving contests with cops, but I can guarantee that the qualification score I got on my NC CHP quals was higher than about 99% of the LEO's annual qual scores. And I doubt that few of them can quote NC gun law statutes by number and section either. And few (if any) of them are competitive shooters, and almost none of them are NRA-qualified instructors...




You did well, considering it was your first time. You maintained a polite demeanor, and you complied in a non-confrontational manner.

However, I agree with most of the statements made by others.

First off, The cop was wrong when he qualified your right to OC as being "on your own property". In OH, OC is legal just about ANYWHERE that you may legally possess a firearm--including in public OFF your own property.

Second, OH has no "stop and identify" law. You have no legal obligation to provide your DL unless you are operating a motor vehicle. You have no legal obligation to provide your carry permit unless you are CCing. Name, address, and "Am I being detained" are the only thing you should say to an LEO...
Third, OH has no gun registration.

Fourth, You should have never initiated contact. Make him come onto your property. Make him initiate conversation. I would have just kept mowing, and ignoring him until he made it perfectly clear that HE wanted to say something, at which point I would have politely asked him to leave my property, because I had not called for him. If he started in with that old "I'm investigating a report of a MWAG" spiel, I would have told him, "well, I'll keep an eye out for anyone who looks suspicious", and started the mower back up... :rolleyes:

Fifth, you didn't have a recorder of any kind on your person. You should ALWAYS carry a recorder--a digital voice recorder or a smartphone for video or something. As soon as the cruiser rolled up, I would have started the recorder...

You did OK--no problems, and the cop--although SERIOUSLY wrong about parts of the law--was polite and didn't run you much of an attitude (at least not compared to SOME cops in OH...) But letting LEOs intimidate you with a badge into being servile and overly polite only teaches them that they can walk on our rights without any sort of repercussions.

FOIA the call that initiated the stop. Find out who called it in, and then invite them over for dinner next weekend. But be SURE you are OCing when you answer the door... :banana:
If Ohio has no "stop and ID" law, there is no onus to provide your name, is there. The "am I being detained" does apply. unless there IS a "S&ID" law, identification cannot be compelled, as decided by Terry v Ohio and Hiibel.
 

Brimstone Baritone

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 26, 2010
Messages
786
Location
Leeds, Alabama, USA
In the short year and a half that I have personally OC'd I have realized you can either a) avoid conflict with law enforcement or b) stand firm on your rights. They seem to be mutually exclusive. Attempting to be seen as 'reasonable' has never helped me in the long run. Answering questions I didn't have to answer, complying with orders I didn't have to comply with, showing ID when it wasn't required, and trying to reason with law enforcement on the side of the road has never resulted in my rights being respected or protected.

I wouldn't consider myself anti-cop. In my case, I'm just bitter because of the compromises I've made and can't take back. But I learn a little from each mistake, and each encounter I've pushed back harder. The most recent one, I was threatened with arrest for the crime of 'carrying a concealed weapon without a permit' if I, and my openly carried sidearm, didn't leave the premises of a public building. I will never be able to go back in time and call her bluff. I just have to steel myself to do better next time.

And I second (third?) the advice to carry a recorder. All my best encounters happen when I forget mine.
 

Citizen

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Nov 15, 2006
Messages
18,269
Location
Fairfax Co., VA
SNIP I would like to ad SCOTUS ruling that police can lie in the course of an investigation...

I've not seen that case or series of cases. In fact the last time I looked it up, I only found general commentary and explanations, but no actual cite. I vaguely recall one website even saying there was no SCOTUS decision on the matter, just a general acceptance by courts that it is necessary to policing.

Can you steer me to the relevant case(s)?
 
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OldCurlyWolf

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 8, 2010
Messages
907
Location
Oklahoma
My other thought was: "You need a permit to conceal on your private property?"

LOL!:lol: I meant to say that I told him I would probably cover it up next time because I could. In retrospect I shouldn't have made that comment but now I am wondering if you do need a permit to conceal on your own property?!? Also if you have the time and inclination to witness the clown of a politician that is our mayor type in Mayor Coleman Uzi on youtube and you'll probably realize why some of the people in columbus are so ignorant when it comes to firearms.[/QUOTE]

There is one caveat with "on your own property" when mowing your front yard.

!. You are required to mow all the way to the curb and you don't own all the way to the curb. Depending on exact circumstances the last 10 to 30 feet belongs to the City/County etc. When mowing that strip, you are NOT on your own property.
 

MAC702

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jul 31, 2011
Messages
6,331
Location
Nevada
Wow. It's the opposite around here. I pay property taxes all the way to the middle of the street.
 

wrightme

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 19, 2008
Messages
5,574
Location
Fallon, Nevada, USA
Yep, what OCW says seems backwards. A landowner owns land up to the property line. Where I live in Nevada, that goes to the middle of the roadway! The municipality (in this case, county/state) has an easement of about 30' to either side of one property line where I cannot hinder travel for them to place a road. I still "own" all of that area, but not functionally. To say that I would not be on my own property when mowing to the curb is completely incorrect.
The curb and sidewalk is STILL on the landownders property. So is the lawn.
 

wrightme

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 19, 2008
Messages
5,574
Location
Fallon, Nevada, USA
Same concept except that NV seems to play a tax trick by increasing the size of your property and placing a public road via their right of way. Sneaky bastards. Instead of planning the public roads first and then planning future private property around the public property as is done in MO and SC.

Though on my farm in SC, the 'state' cut a road through/along (two separate tracks next to each other on the plat map, no fence) two of my fields and poof, instant public road. No big deal, cuts EMS response time to some folks by up to 45 minutes the way country roads are laid out.

Yet unless they bought the right of way, or declared an eminent domain action against the property, you still own the area. In my case, there is a road easement of I think 15', and also a utility easement between my yard and the road edge of about 5-10'. I really don't know, because my existing fence that the prior owner built abuts the easement, and I don't bother with the area outside that much. Even the adjoining property lines have easements for utility access, though most build a fence right up to the line on the plat map. The risk is the potential future 'need' to tear out a fence to allow easement access.

Either way, private property exists to the edge delinieated on the plat map, and I do not see a way to justify ANY explanation that says some municipality owns part of a lawn closer to a home than the curb or sidewalk.
 

dmatting

Regular Member
Joined
May 25, 2011
Messages
445
Location
Durham, NC
I can't speak for the entire state of NC, but with all of the properties I have owned, the property line shown on the plat map is parallel to the center of the road and about 30 feet from the center of the road. That is how my current property is staked out as well. So there is about 10 feet or so that I minimally maintain to the road but do not own. I'm not sure if it is my responsibility to maintain that area, but i do it anyway cuz it would never get maintained if I did not.
 
B

Bikenut

Guest
Rustin...

I'm not from Ohio yet I'd like to comment on something concerning your MWAG incident.

If you conceal carry when you mow the lawn from now on because a neighbor called the cops you will have effectively...

1. Voluntarily given up your right to OC on your own property... and given your neighbor control over your right to bear arms.

2. Voluntarily given up your right to do what you want on your own property... instead you have given your neighbor the authority to tell you what you can't do.. on your own property.

3. Shown your neighbor that he/she can make you do what they want you to do. They can make you live up to their personal agenda(s).

4. Handed over your personal integrity to your neighbor..... willingly I might add... by acquiescing to their demand you do things their way.

5. And..... your neighbor wins.

Now personally I have a problem with folks telling me what to do when what I am doing is not only legal but is a right.

So... I would make sure I OC'd ever minute I was outside in my yard for any reason. I would OC to go to the mailbox. I would OC while sitting in the sun.

I would make damn sure that nosy control freak neighbor saw that I was not intimidated by their attempts to use the police to manipulate me into doing what they want me to do.

I would NOT let some whine ass neighbor control my life.
 
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DocWalker

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 6, 2008
Messages
1,922
Location
Mountain Home, Idaho, USA
If it was me that my neighbor called the cops on for me mowing my yard with my pistol.

The next time I would be dressed "FULL RAMBO" with multiple sidearms and a AR-15 over my back just to prove a point. I would have to make sure they saw me as it would be uncomfortable....but they would see I'm not their BIIIAAATTTCCCTTTT.
 

Daylen

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 29, 2010
Messages
2,223
Location
America
If it was me that my neighbor called the cops on for me mowing my yard with my pistol.

The next time I would be dressed "FULL RAMBO" with multiple sidearms and a AR-15 over my back just to prove a point. I would have to make sure they saw me as it would be uncomfortable....but they would see I'm not their BIIIAAATTTCCCTTTT.

While mowing the yard?! that is ALOT of extra effort, I can see sizing up on firearms to prove a point but going 3x or more on weapons would be a bit much...
 

DocWalker

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Jul 6, 2008
Messages
1,922
Location
Mountain Home, Idaho, USA
While mowing the yard?! that is ALOT of extra effort, I can see sizing up on firearms to prove a point but going 3x or more on weapons would be a bit much...

Don't get me wrong it is a bit much but short of mounting a sherman tank as a lawn ordament with the barrel pointing at my neighbors front door. Having it manned by some guarden gnomes with evil grins, I think packing multiple and larger weapons would get the point across.
 

Daylen

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 29, 2010
Messages
2,223
Location
America
Don't get me wrong it is a bit much but short of mounting a sherman tank as a lawn ordament with the barrel pointing at my neighbors front door. Having it manned by some guarden gnomes with evil grins, I think packing multiple and larger weapons would get the point across.

Don't forget, when bearing as many arms as possible, one must do so shirtless...
 
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