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Thread: Tarus 45--410

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    Tarus 45--410

    If shotguns are legal in Maryland, is a Taurus Judge with 410 shot shells legal to open carry in Maryland?

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    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
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    No. Th Judge is a handgun. A shotgun is a "long gun", and must have an 18" barrel to be legal (without registering it as a SBS and paying a $200 tribute to the BATFE).

    And anyway, OCing long guns is ALSO illegal in MD (unless you are hunting), thanks to the racist elitists in Annapolis who couldn't stomach the idea that black folk were legally defending their property and families during the riots in the late 1960's.

    In MD to carry, you have to meet the "Three W's" requirement--you must be Wealthy, White, and Well-connected...


    BTW, does anyone else here find it mildly ironic that the 2 most knowledgeable and responsive OCDO forum members on the subject of MD gun laws are from NC and VA (Me and Skidmark)?

    I don't mean nothin' by that, I'm just sayin'...
    Last edited by Dreamer; 11-11-2011 at 12:49 AM.
    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggression—and this is hogwash."
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    Regular Member acmariner99's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreamer View Post
    BTW, does anyone else here find it mildly ironic that the 2 most knowledgeable and responsive OCDO forum members on the subject of MD gun laws are from NC and VA (Me and Skidmark)?

    I don't mean nothin' by that, I'm just sayin'...
    I do find that odd. If the rest of the state outside of Baltimore, Annapolis, etc. is so "gun friendly," why don't they work harder to promote 2A rights in MD? Compared to the rest of upper New England at least you can bring firearms into MD, you just can't do squat with them once you are there. I thought about moving to MD for a good job in Columbia/Annapolis Junction, but I decided I much rather prefer it out West. I'd have been glad to help if I did move out there.

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    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by acmariner99 View Post
    I do find that odd. If the rest of the state outside of Baltimore, Annapolis, etc. is so "gun friendly," why don't they work harder to promote 2A rights in MD? Compared to the rest of upper New England at least you can bring firearms into MD, you just can't do squat with them once you are there. I thought about moving to MD for a good job in Columbia/Annapolis Junction, but I decided I much rather prefer it out West. I'd have been glad to help if I did move out there.
    MD politics seem complicated to outsiders, but really it all boils down to one thing--money.

    The 4 Urban Counties are some of the most densely populated in the region, AND have some of the highest per-capita incomes in the Nation.

    The rural counties (Western MD and the Eastern Shore) are barely above the poverty line, and lower-middle-class at best on average, and have less population density that WV.

    The Gears of Government are lubricated with FRNs, and there are literally BILLIONS of them flowing from the 4 Urban Counties, while the rural MD Counties are, by and large, broke, poverty-stricken, and too concerned with keeping their jobs, business and private property intact to spend time in the bribery/graft/baksheesh game that is the Annapolis Political Status Quo.

    MD politics is like a horrible caricature of the most corrupt comic-book Boss Hogg government you can possibly imagine--except it is all too real, and the stakes are MUCH higher...
    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggression—and this is hogwash."
    --Barry Goldwater, 1964

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    Regular Member acmariner99's Avatar
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    I will definitely yield reliable info to those who live in said environment. Sounds like quite a disparity to me. Four counties overwhelm whatever say the rest of the state has. I grew up in Washington state -- VERY liberal, but even its political climate is more balanced than what you said. Politicians there know they have been treading on thin ice, which is the way it should be.

    But to stay on topic -- I think a couple of states do consider a 410 handgun to be a "short barreled shotgun" however contrary to federal laws they may be. California is one of them I think.

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Just to stir the pot - lookbat how long Cook County and the City of Chicago have controlled what happens in Illinois.

    It's only now that some folks there have started pushing against the City that some changes are happening. There are other pushes against Cook County as well, but not getting as much publicity.

    But the tmes they are a'changing. Maybe we will see in it the PDRM in our lifetime.

    stay safe.
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    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
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    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by acmariner99 View Post
    But to stay on topic -- I think a couple of states do consider a 410 handgun to be a "short barreled shotgun" however contrary to federal laws they may be. California is one of them I think.

    Actually, CA considered the Judge and it's ilk to be "Destructive Devices" and refuses to put them on their "Approved Handguns Roster".

    If you want shotshells in a handgun, get a .44 Magnum or .357 magnum, and buy some shotshells for it--THAT is perfectly legal in CA, because the shotshells are chambered in a handgun caliber casing. The problem with the Judge is that it is a handgun that can shoot a shotgun shell.

    See, it's easy to understand. CA laws make ALL the sense in the world...
    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggression—and this is hogwash."
    --Barry Goldwater, 1964

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    Activist Member swinokur's Avatar
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    OC of long guns is legal in MD. AG opinion attached

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    Regular Member acmariner99's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by swinokur View Post
    OC of long guns is legal in MD. AG opinion attached
    Remember the forum rule about long gun open carry. From what I have heard about the attitude of MD LEO's I don't think that is wise.

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    Activist Member swinokur's Avatar
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    me neither. just passing on the info


    Forum rule not violated. see bolded part


    • (14) LONG GUN CARRY IS OFF-TOPIC: This web site is focused on the right to openly carry properly holstered handguns in daily American life. We do NOT promote the carry of long guns. Long guns are great! OCDO co-founders John & Mike and most of the members of this forum own at least one long gun - but due to urban area issues of muzzle control, lack of trigger guard coverage, and the fact that the long gun carry issue distracts from our main mission to promote the open carry of handguns in daily life, we will leave long gun carry activism in the capable hands of the future founders of web sites about long gun carry. Exception: This rule does NOT apply to discussions about long gun carry in jurisdictions such as California which ban handgun carry and thus require long gun carry as a matter of public policy.
    Last edited by swinokur; 11-12-2011 at 01:42 PM.

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    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by swinokur View Post
    OC of long guns is legal in MD. AG opinion attached
    Anyone who takes the time to read this MD AG ruling will clearly see that long gun carry in MD--like ANY otherwise lawful and constitutionally-protected activity in MD--is legal as long as a municipality doesn't have a law prohibiting or regulating it, and although the MD statute prohibits municipalities from passing laws that regulate or prohibit lawful carry after 1985, the fact of the matter is that the AG almost NEVER enforces this state preemption statute against municipalities who pass new laws of this nature. There are communities in MD that didn't even exist prior to 1985 that have laws against "public display of a firearm" on their books, and the State lets them stand...

    In MD, the law is a fluid and flexible thing--if the state thinks that there is potential profit in a bad or illegal law, code, or statute enacted by a municipality or county, they will let it stand no matter how unlawful it is. And often the AG and the MD Courts will go so far as to issue official rulings that they believe hold the power of law that actually encourage and endorse such unlawful acts by counties or municipalities.

    Case in point: The speeding cameras in Montgomery County--their program is in direct violation of MD statute, but the AG has issued an official ruling giving them a pass, because Montgomery County wrote their program rules so that any revenues over a certain amount go directly to the State General Treasury...

    The wheels of MD government are greased with baksheesh, not the rule of law, ethics, or morals...
    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggression—and this is hogwash."
    --Barry Goldwater, 1964

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    Activist Member swinokur's Avatar
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    Your opinions aside, I was correcting your statement that OC of long guns in MD is illegal.


    Clearly it is not, local law notwithstanding.
    Last edited by swinokur; 11-13-2011 at 06:52 AM.

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    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by swinokur View Post
    Your opinions aside, I was correcting your statement that OC of long guns in MD is illegal.


    Clearly it is not, local law notwithstanding.

    And what I am ALSO saying (in technical agreement with you) is that OC of long guns in MD is legal--as long as it it not illegal in some specific, unannounced, secretly-passed statute on the books of some municipality or county--often in DIRECT violation of MD State law. And the Courts will NEVER stand up to these State Preemption violations in MD.

    I'll tell you what, "swinokur"--why don't you sling a loaded Remington 870 across your shoulder and go for a leisurely stroll down the street in Baltimore, Rockville, Olney, Hagerstown, Silver Spring, or Laurel, and see how that works out for you? We'd be REALLY interested to see just how "legal" that is...

    And in the aftermath I would gladly bring you some reading material for your extended stay in the local hoosegow, but I doubt they would consider the US Constitution or the lastes issue of "Guns and Ammo" to be acceptable in a MD jail...
    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggression—and this is hogwash."
    --Barry Goldwater, 1964

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    Activist Member swinokur's Avatar
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    I believe in an earlier post I said I would not do it. That doesn't make it illegal

    You said it was illegal and I provided a cite to support my position that in fact it is not. That's all. I do not go off topic about other issues

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    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by swinokur View Post
    I believe in an earlier post I said I would not do it. That doesn't make it illegal

    You said it was illegal and I provided a cite to support my position that in fact it is not. That's all. I do not go off topic about other issues
    You are right--it is legal...

    Tell you what--I'll bring the camera, and you can bring your 12-guage and your unshakeable faith in the rule of law in MD, and we'll have a "LGOC" photo shoot in Rockville, Bethesda, and Baltimore this weekend.

    You've lived in MD long enough to know that just because the LAW in MD says something is legal doesn't mean you can't get arrested, prosecuted and convicted of doing it. And just because something is ILLEGAL in the law doesn't mean that a person who does that thing in public will necessarily get anything more than a nod and a finger wave--it ALL depends on who you are, who you know, and how deep your pockets are in MD.

    The Rule of Law in MD is "Those who Rule, make up the law as they go", and you know it.

    Stop being difficult--you are just arguing for arguments sake. You KNOW as well as I do that the letter of the law in MD and the actual application of the law are two entirely and completely separate and unrelated things...
    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggression—and this is hogwash."
    --Barry Goldwater, 1964

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