I've been an EMS provider, from EMT to Paramedic, volunteer and career, rural suburban and metro, 911 and transport, for 30 years.
Listen to me.
I have never been in a position to shoot someone in EMS, but neither outside of EMS, but I have been darn close in both, and there have been many more times in EMS. Here are a few anecdotes I have from experience and first person witnesses where EMS would have been better off armed, and LEO response was not indicated (one where LEO was there):
Suffolk: One EMT I used to work with went on a sick call. When he knocked on the door, a man opened up and thrust a knife out. They ran and were dang lucky the perp didn't pursue.
Suffolk: An ambulance went on a call down a long lane. As they pulled up, shots came from the house. They did a hasty retreat but backed the ambulance into a ditch and had to run across a field dodging bullets.
Isle of Wight: A transport ambulance dropped off a patient at a trailer park. On their way out, they took rounds from a shotgun and a rifle.
Suffolk: Ambulance and zone car respond to stabbing. Police car is coming down the street behind them. Upon arrival a crowd of over 100 pulls the medics from their vehicles and begin to hit kick and stomp them into a pulp. Eventually a dozen police officers on scene hold back crowd at gunpoint so that the wounded medics can snatch the victim and evacuate.
Suffolk: Ambulance crew working a cardiac arrest in the ambulance are overwhelmed by family members who are distraught and don't understand what is going on and and must abandon the ambulance, and patient, to avoid assault.
Suffolk: Man shot multiple times. Police later learn that the shooter was standing in the crowd watching the proceedings.
Chesapeake: Man unresponsive at party. EMS goes to patient. Crowd surrounds EMS and tells them that if they patient doesn't wake up and walk out, they don't either.
Isle of Wight: 911 response to a fall. Find woman at bottom of stairs. Because the boyfriend, behind me, threw her down there and repeatedly kicked her.
Isle of Wight: Shoulder pain. Because the husband in the room shot her in the shoulder with a shotgun which was also in the room.
Southampton County: Possible DOA. Multiple gunshot wounds, multiple suspects on scene.
Southampton County: Shooting. Ambulance stages in safe zone. Bystanders bring victim to EMS station and stop along way when they see ambulance. Angry at EMS crew for not being on scene.
Suffolk: Assault call, other party not on scene. EMS arrives on scene. Other party returns, fight breaks out.
Surry: Shooting victim brought to Sheriff's Dept. by his brother. EMS arrives on scene. Brother arrested for shooting brother.
Suffolk: Unresponsive. Family member states patient is drunk. EMS asks how much alcohol. Another family member becomes very angry, blocks door, threatens EMS crew.
All over: Private EMS agencies transporting home patients to/from Doctor's appointments and dialysis, and discharged patients from hospital floors and the ED. we go into some pretty sketchy places at all times of the day and night with never an LEO escort. Have been on scene many many times and witnessed street drug transactions. On multiple occasions have been mistaken for police when we walked around a corner even though we had a big yellow stretcher in hand.
OK I remembered those in just a few minutes.
I recall several years ago a news story of a Paramedic that was treating a sick patient when he was assaulted by someone with a knife. He drew and shot the perp while two LEOs stood in the room and watched. He was fired for having a gun (saving his life) but got hired in the next county no questions asked.
Yes these are all anecdotes and not scientifically valid, but how often do you need to hear quack quack before you believe there's a duck nearby?
One other thought. It's nice to have LEOs on scene. But how many times do LEOs get shot? Then what?
I carry for self-protection because I do not have a police/fire/ems radio that can call a ton of cops who will run code 3 to get to me. I open carry in the summer months, CC in the winter months, and I do not get to carry at my job either.
You have made it obvious that you don't have a clue what you're talking about. Instead of contributing to this topic you are making noise, restating falsehoods and ignoring facts.
My problem with this whole EMS can carry is ANOTHER special class of citizens. It is bad enough that cops get to carry all over the place where the rest of us cannot. But now some want to grant EMS this same ability too. All under the facade that crap "could" happen while they are working.
Not COULD, DOES HAPPEN. Yes LEOs get special perks, but for very valid reasons. This is not to say that every citizen shouldn't have the benefit of some or most of those perks, but that's not the system we live in.
I have still not seen any statistic to show how often medics are killed or even injured to such a degree where a firearm could have prevented it. Maybe you should look into the use of a taser instead?
And you never will. Statistics cannot be produced based on hypothetical situations. Even if such a study was possible, the fact that it hasn't been done does not diminish the validity of the proposal.
If you want to tip the scales... show me some numbers to justify firearms and I will buy in 100%. But as it stands... medics do not appear to be in any more danger than any other job. As I said.. Taxi drivers should get first consideration for going to work armed.
Appearances are deceiving, especially if you don't look.
Medics have the option to wait for cops to clear up the scene before they go in to save lives. If a medic goes into a dangerous scene... it is no different than one of us who open carry walking into a fist fight happening. It is our own fault if we get punched in the face. But I will guess you will say something about medics have to go into danger. If so, please show me where they have been successfully sued for not doing so.
Go volunteer with your local EMS agency and get back to us on this on how it works out for you.
The problem is that you want the ability to carry on the job and can make up anything you want to justify it. I need some hard proof to agree you need it over the rest of us citizens who cannot. Don't get me wrong... I wish we could all carry on the job. But what makes EMS better than the rest of us workers?
You are really starting to sound like an anti-gun troll. Maybe it's your beef against LEO perks but seriously!
"Much of what is known about taxi robbery is based on information recorded on assaults and homicides by occupation.† These data consistently show that, as an occupation or industry, taxi drivers have the highest or among the highest risk of job-related homicide and assault.1 Robbery is the motive for more than half of all work-related homicides (80 percent) and non-fatal assaults (60 percent).2 A U.S. study that did look at robbery victimization data by occupation also found that taxi drivers were among those most often robbed.
Factors Contributing to Robbery of Taxi Drivers
Taxi drivers are at risk of robbery due to a combination of factors related to the nature of their job:
•They have contact with a large number of strangers or people they do not know well.
•They often work in high-crime areas.
•They usually carry cash with them in an unsecured manner and handle money as payment.
•They usually work alone.
•They often go to, or through, isolated locations.
•They often work late at night or early in the morning.
These risk factors, among others, have been mentioned in a number of studies of workplace homicide and violence in general"
Source
I don't have a problem with taxi drivers, store clerks, etc. ad nauseum being allowed to carry. Heck pass a law that says ANYBODY can carry on the job. Problem is, it will NOT pass. You've got to start somewhere, and really how many people are going to be against EMS providers protecting themselves when they are out there saving everyone else?
