Getting legislation for EMS to carry firearms

Jay · Nov 29, 2011

My Response from Senator Deeds today.

Dear Mr. Xxxxx:

Thank you for contacting me to about the EMS Providers' Safety and Right to Self Defense Act of 2012. I contacted the Virginia Office of EMS to inquire about the current status of the regulations and understand the new proposal, as you pointed out, will eliminate the regulatory ban on firearms and leave discretion to each licensed EMS agency. From what I have reviewed thus far, this seems to be a reasonable approach. Providing local discretion takes into account the wide range of communities we have in the Commonwealth. However, I will continue to consider the issue and will keep your views in mind should this legislation be introduced during the upcoming session.

Sincerely,

Creigh Deeds

paramedic70002 · Nov 30, 2011

He's blowing you off. Time to look elsewhere. I can tell you now that state EMS will be against this bill. I tried a few years ago to get one passed that would prohibit VA OEMS from enforcing part of their regulations that at worst would cause an ALS provider to lose his certification AND be charged with a Class 1 Misdemeanor for treating a patient without having an EMT present. Mike Berg called me out of the blue and was some kind of spun up that I would ask for this. His rationale was that OEMS had never enforced the regulation in that way, even though he admitted is was possible. The bill was withdrawn by Senator Quayle at Berg's request and against my wishes.

Jay · Nov 30, 2011

paramedic70002 said:
He's blowing you off. Time to look elsewhere. I can tell you now that state EMS will be against this bill. I tried a few years ago to get one passed that would prohibit VA OEMS from enforcing part of their regulations that at worst would cause an ALS provider to lose his certification AND be charged with a Class 1 Misdemeanor for treating a patient without having an EMT present. Mike Berg called me out of the blue and was some kind of spun up that I would ask for this. His rationale was that OEMS had never enforced the regulation in that way, even though he admitted is was possible. The bill was withdrawn by Senator Quayle at Berg's request and against my wishes.

Why would OEMS be against the bill? They have publicly went on record that the regulation prohibiting only police from carry firearms was being removed, and there is a directive by Berg (I think) stating they will not site anyone that does carry a firearm. It seems to me they are neutral, and you are right it does seem like Creeds is blowing me off.

thebigsd · Nov 30, 2011

Time to find another Senator to use. Find a pro-gun one reasonably close to you and send him your original letter plus Deeds response. I'm sure he'd love to take the angle that Deeds doesn't support EMTs. Worth a shot anyways.

Wolf_shadow · Nov 30, 2011

Jay said:
Why would OEMS be against the bill? They have publicly went on record that the regulation prohibiting only police from carry firearms was being removed, and there is a directive by Berg (I think) stating they will not site anyone that does carry a firearm. It seems to me they are neutral, and you are right it does seem like Creeds is blowing me off.

Because it would take control away from them!

paramedic70002 · Dec 9, 2011

Mexico, but right on the border

http://www.emsworld.com/news/10476314/gunmen-attack-ambulance-in-mexican-border-kill-4-people

CIUDAD JUAREZ, Mexico (AP) — Gunmen attacked an ambulance in this border city Wednesday, killing the driver, two patients and a fourth person in the vehicle, officials said.
The Chihuahua state Attorney General's Office said the ambulance driver was shot in the head and appeared to be the target of the attack. It did not provide theories about a motive.
Two of the victims were patients being taken to a Ciudad Juarez facility for kidney treatment, officials said. Also killed was a woman accompanying the patients.

paramedic70002 · Dec 13, 2011

http://www.defensivecarry.com/forum/carry-defensive-scenarios/132655-heads-up-my-son.html

My son called Saturday morning, said there was a guy looking for him. My son is an volunteer EMT/Fireman at the local Fire Protection District and had situation Friday night. He had just loaded a patient in an ambulance when another guy came running down the driveway wanting information. Son identified himself and explained that only family could get information and no you cannot ride in the ambulance with your friend. Sounds like the guy got irate took his name and gave the impression to my son and others there that he would get even. They filed a report with the Sheriff's department just to let them know what was going on.

Saturday morning the guys walks into the fire station looking for my boy he was not there but the guys notified him. My son called me let know just in case the guy got a phone book and started looking up addresses for people with our last name in the area. Although my son doesn't live with me he thought it would be a good idea to let me know. We live in a semi rual area on a deadend street, not a lot of traffic. I have always felt pretty secure, but decided I would start carring at home. Hope the guy doesn't show up.

paramedic70002 · Dec 18, 2011

http://www.firefighterclosecalls.com/news/fullstory/newsid/151781

Saturday, December 17, 2011 Firefighters were shot at as they battled a small blaze at an apartment building near Dodger Stadium today, and the apparent gunman was shot and killed by a passing sheriff's deputy.

Mayhem · Dec 19, 2011

I think it would be possible to replace "EMS workers" for any other occupation in an attempt to justify why they need to carry a firearm at their job.

Cable Installer
http://abclocal.go.com/kabc/story?section=news/local/inland_empire&id=7109891

Mechanic
http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/story?section=news/local/san_francisco&id=8381759

Bartender
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lan...-attacking-bartender-with-brass-knuckles.html

Baker
http://www.silive.com/northshore/index.ssf/2010/04/baker_attacked_at_his_port_ric.html

My arguments are not that people do not get attacked at their place of employment. Clearly... ALL professions are at risk in some way.

Nobody forced people to work as EMS. They have to accept the known risk just like a cab driver.

But I am the minority here and the only only one opposed to the idea. No biggie... I just do not agree. But good luck with your letter campaign.

Grapeshot · Dec 19, 2011

Mayhem said:
...snip...

My arguments are not that people do not get attacked at their place of employment. Clearly... ALL professions are at risk in some way.

Nobody forced people to work as EMS. They have to accept the known risk just like a cab driver.

But I am the minority here and the only only one opposed to the idea. No biggie... I just do not agree. But good luck with your letter campaign.

Q.E.D. - people working in all professions should have the ability, if they so chose, to defend themselves.

Sesrun · Dec 19, 2011

This proposed legislation is not to say that EMS workers have a more dangerous job, it is to fix a technicality and disagreement between State Law, VA EMS Regulations (12VAC5-31), and individual Agencies' Policies. State law and even VA EMS Regulations have been written to allow for the carry of firearms, however, individual Agency SOPs have dictated the ban of firearms from stations across the state. This legislation should only have the latitude to correct these bans which lack true authority.

Yes everyone should have the ability and choice as to whether to carry, however, that is not the question regarding legislation here.

Mayhem · Dec 20, 2011

I am all for some law that prohibits a business banning employees to carry firearms.

But then I also have to think that I really do not the government telling me what I cannot do as a business owner.

Plus.. There are some types of businesses where customers seeing firearms on site might scare them away. Childcare being one of the biggest.

If employees can over-ride the employer's desire to keep it gun free... it could end up being bad for business. And being in business is all about making money and not so much about hand picking customers who like guns or understand guns.

I believe there is already a law that allows employees to carry concealed on the job site if the business allows it and they do not even need a CC permit.

Grapeshot · Dec 20, 2011

Mayhem said:
...snip...
Plus.. There are some types of businesses where customers seeing firearms on site might scare them away. Childcare being one of the biggest.

If employees can over-ride the employer's desire to keep it gun free... it could end up being bad for business. And being in business is all about making money and not so much about hand picking customers who like guns or understand guns.

I believe there is already a law that allows employees to carry concealed on the job site if the business allows it and they do not even need a CC permit.

If all (not disqualified) employees of all businesses were allowed to make their own decision regarding self-defense, it would be a moot point would it not? Therefore the money would not be diverted.

Mayhem · Dec 20, 2011

Grapeshot said:
If all (not disqualified) employees of all businesses were allowed to make their own decision regarding self-defense, it would be a moot point would it not? Therefore the money would not be diverted.

True that...

But not everyone is willing to exercise their right to own and carry. So there could always be another business that is actually gun free.

Grapeshot · Dec 20, 2011

Mayhem said:
True that...

But not everyone is willing to exercise their right to own and carry. So there could always be another business that is actually gun free.

Exercising the right or not has no bearing on whether they have the right. Such would be a choice, not a requirement. The same applies to businesses, but not as a matter of their policy - rather as a result of the employees' personal decisions.

I don't want employers to tell me how to vote, where to live or what kind of vehicle to drive. Can I wear a hat and walk to work or must I be a member of a particular religious group?

To carry, or not to carry: that is the question: Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer The slings and arrows of outrageous fortune, Or to take arms against a sea of troubles, And by opposing end them?

Which business will it be that is actually lacking in the ability to provide for the common defense?

Jay · Dec 22, 2011

This one hits a little closer to home... Suspect fatally shot by trooper in a rescue squad parking lot after brandishing a firearm at the trooper.

http://www.nbc29.com/story/16371912/suspect-killed-by-va-trooper-in-struggle-ided

peter nap · Dec 22, 2011

Have you found a Patron yet Jay?

Jay · Dec 22, 2011

peter nap said:
Have you found a Patron yet Jay?

Unfortuantly not Houge basically blew me off and I never heard back from Reeves and Bell. Got any ideas who I should reach out to??

peter nap · Dec 22, 2011

Jay said:
Unfortuantly not Houge basically blew me off and I never heard back from Reeves and Bell. Got any ideas who I should reach out to??

It's getting a little late for this year Jay. That's normal though. It normally takes me two years to get a bill introduced and then at least another two before it has a chance of getting voted on.

I can point you to a couple that will likely introduce it next year. Are you coming to lobby day?

Jay · Dec 22, 2011

peter nap said:
It's getting a little late for this year Jay. That's normal though. It normally takes me two years to get a bill introduced and then at least another two before it has a chance of getting voted on.

I can point you to a couple that will likely introduce it next year. Are you coming to lobby day?

I figured as much at this point.. I am going to try and come to lobby day I will not be carrying though as I do not have my permit yet. I have had a million and one things go on and just forgot to submit my application to the court.

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