What Would You Do? Shoot? Run? 911? Wait & See? Etc...

Herr Heckler Koch said:

..Taleb has lost more money than I will ever see. He would point out the Ludic Fallacy in your hypothetical. Life is not a game and its odds are unknowable.

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I feel pity for Agnostics...

A man should not have to know without uncertainty before taking action while lives are in the balance...

The capacity of man himself is only revealed when, under stress and responsibility, he breaks through his educational shell, and he may then be a splendid surprise to himself no less than to this teachers.

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Schlitz;1647352 said:

With that said, my heart goes out to the troops in uniform who were killed. I'm don't know personally if they were the type to carry 24/7 when off duty, but I do know that being they were in uniform they were most likely on their way to or from work. Work which takes place on a military installation. I also know first hand that carrying on military installations is prohibited even in your vehicle. (Perhaps there are exceptions out there, but I have been to plenty of military bases and I know of none that let you keep your gun in your car when you're at work. Also see US CODE TITLE 18 > PART I > CHAPTER 44 > § 930) So, even if these young troops were the carrying type, their government and ranking officers made it illegal for them to possess a gun to and from work which made their stop at IHOP fatal.

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I am struggling how to say this without cussing. Our country sends them into war either to defend and preserve our freedom (or oil dependence) and then strips them of their right to defend themselves. That is purely assinine.

OK, I'm going to throw out a lot of ifs here...

IF I knew he would still be a danger after his attack and

IF I could safely (behind cover) get within 50 yards of the entrance to ambush him and

IF I could have my pistol on a rest and

IF I thought I could get a safe shot (safe behind the target) and

IF I could identify the shoot before he walks out (I don't want to shoot someone that subdued him and then took his weapon) and

IF I thought I could stop him before he had time to realize I was even there (basically: can I tell whether or not he's wearing body armor. I'm confident I could make a center mass shot at 50 yards, but not so confident about a head shot)...

I might think about going across the street and taking this guy out. I mean, I'm not the kind to say that we need to go vigilante and use our permits as police badges. But this was an obviously very dangerous situation-I'm not going to mistake full auto AK fire for a self defense situation or anything else, this guy was obviously out for blood. And how am I supposed to know he's not going to come across the street and shoot up my place?

I would definitely feel my life is in danger and want to stop the threat while I still have the upper hand (I can't remember about NC, but we have no duty to retreat in TN). This is one of those situations where you'll have to live with whatever decision you make for the rest of your life. After this guy walks out of the building, he shoots some chick in the head trying to get away on a motorcycle. Granted, she didn't die (miraculously), but if I knew I could have prevented more deaths outside of the building and didn't, it would be hard for me to live with that decision.

I know to not go looking for or running towards danger. But in this situation I haven't found danger, danger has found me and it's right across the street. I have no duty to retreat (not in TN and not in AZ) and I'm not storming into the building, but I would feel my life is in danger with a crazed gunman in a building across the street. Putting myself in a safe position and shooting to stop the threat seems like a reasonable course of action to me.

A couple more things: I'd have someone else call 911 or do it myself before hand if I'm alone. Also, if this guy had a pistol, it would change things greatly. On the one hand, I wouldn't feel so out-gunned and have an easier time facing him off. But at the same time, a pistol doesn't have the reach his rifle does, so I don't think I'd feel like I was in as much danger across the street. That may cause me to want to stay where I'm at and wait for the cavalry, protecting myself if he came towards me.

Honestly, I think the decision is easier knowing this guy had a full auto rifle, capable of firing across the street and down near the next neighborhood. Across the street I'm in the kill zone. With a pistol, not so much.

"Be a good witness" comes to mind. I am not going to fault anyone for not going up against an AK platform rifle with a pistol. It's so obvious, it seems to me like a waste of article space. Talk about the situations where there isn't an obvious answer and the discussion is more interesting.

Those people walked into IHOP knowing there wouldn't be any concealed carriers there legally. They know what they signed up for, and presumably knew small difference in the risks and thought the risk of attack was smaller than the risk of a concealed carrier... well, dunno what additional risk that would be aside from the risk REDUCTION of a little protection from a law abiding citizen.

IF I didn't think IHOP sucked already, having a "easy victim zone" probably would deter me from visiting them.

This is a tough one. You're damned if you do and damned if you don't. If the BG comes out of IHOP and you start popping off rounds at him, he is liable to go back in and kill some more. I think that without a fair chance of hitting him (and not a bystander) I'd hold off until I thought firing wouldn't send him back in. Without a long gun your options are limited (as Leo found out in Oakland a few years ago).

Schlitz said:

Out of all those people in the IHOP NO ONE was carrying? Not to be an *******, but this **** seems to happen ALL THE TIME now-a-days. If you're out in public at a restaurant, walking downtown, whatever and you're not carrying then it's your problem. Every time I step outside my home to go for a walk or take the family out for dinner I stay strapped. Why? Because I am expecting crime to happen. I am expecting an active shooter scenario to happen. I'm not paranoid, I'm prepared. Every type of place I've been to has been a crime scene. Now I don't mean the exact geographic location, but what I mean is when I go to church, IHOP, the mall, a walk down town, etc. Places just like this are where crime happens.

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I think you are paranoid. And I agree with you 100%. Not sure what that means... :lol:

A gun in your safe is useless.

The only reason I would engage an active shooter would be my family. If we were trapped in the restaurant I would fight if there was no means of escape, i.e. Luby's. I am no Chuck Norris.

If I saw him enter a place full of adults who had chosen to not provide for their own protection? 911 and I/we are out of there. LEO can come to my house to get a statement.