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Thread: gun kept loaded in car

  1. #1
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    gun kept loaded in car

    Hello, If I leave my gun in the car can it still be loaded? I have a gun vault it would be in.
    This would be with the license.
    THANKS

  2. #2
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    yes

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    Regular Member Interceptor_Knight's Avatar
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    Yes you may. I am assuming that no one else would be in the car who does not have a license while you are not present.

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    It doesn't have to be cased or unloaded.

  5. #5
    Regular Member Outdoorsman1's Avatar
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    I.K., just curious.. If a loaded handgun was locked in a vehicle and someone entered the vehicle not knowing about the handgun, and the owner left the vhicle with the passenger still in it, and somehow LEO discovered the handgun, wouold the owner get charged or jsut the person in the vehicle..?????? Or maybe both...???

    Outdoorsman1
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    Regular Member Interceptor_Knight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outdoorsman1 View Post
    I.K., just curious.. If a loaded handgun was locked in a vehicle and someone entered the vehicle not knowing about the handgun, and the owner left the vhicle with the passenger still in it, and somehow LEO discovered the handgun, wouold the owner get charged or jsut the person in the vehicle..?????? Or maybe both...???
    I am not aware of any charge which the owner could receive as they have not violated any Statutes so long as they are licensed. Hopefully the LEO would be reasonable and upon the return of the owner would let the passengers off of the hook. Depending on municipality, the passengers could receive a citation and have to convince the judge that they did not know it was there which is one of the 3 components to a 941.23 conviction according to case law.

  7. #7
    Regular Member AaronS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outdoorsman1 View Post
    I.K., just curious.. If a loaded handgun was locked in a vehicle and someone entered the vehicle not knowing about the handgun, and the owner left the vhicle with the passenger still in it, and somehow LEO discovered the handgun, wouold the owner get charged or jsut the person in the vehicle..?????? Or maybe both...???

    Outdoorsman1
    As far as I understand the law, if I left my wife in the car with my gun in the lock box, and it can not be gotten by her, she should be safe. But my key for the box is on my key chain. If I left the keys in the car also, she might have an issue. BUT....
    As far as I understand, she would not only have to have access to "my" gun, but she would also have to have known that the gun was in the box.
    She may know that I have a box, but would she know that I have a gun in it at that time? And would she have access to said gun (does she have a key)?

    I guess I might move my gun box key...
    Thanks...

  8. #8
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    Thumbs up gun kept loaded in car

    Thanks everyone for the answers

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    Regular Member Hostilefreak's Avatar
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    I applied for my CCW but have not received it yet. So that means that I cannot have a loaded uncased handgun for instance on my passenger seat. I have to have my license in order for that to be valid correct?
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  10. #10
    Founder's Club Member protias's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hostilefreak View Post
    I applied for my CCW but have not received it yet. So that means that I cannot have a loaded uncased handgun for instance on my passenger seat. I have to have my license in order for that to be valid correct?
    Incorrect. You may have the firearm loaded in the vehicle. Some are of the opinion it must be seen (so on the dash), but I am of the opinion you may have a loaded firearm anywhere inside the vehicle.

    167.31 (2) (b) Except as provided in sub. (4), no per-son may place, possess, or transport a firearm, bow, or
    crossbow in or on a vehicle, unless the firearm is a hand-gun, as defined in s. 175.60 (1) (bm), unless the firearm
    is unloaded and encased, or unless the bow or crossbow
    is unstrung or is enclosed in a carrying case.

    Some say if they cannot see it on your hip, it is considered concealed (941.23 violation). I would argue that if you came up to me on my weak side, then that would be considered concealed (yes, I know the law says otherwise, but I'm just making a point). The "in or on" part is key here. A handgun can be "in" the vehicle. A glovebox is "in" a vehicle, same with the center counsel, same with under the seat, same with in the trunk. IANAL (I am not a lawyer), so take my understanding of the law however you wish.

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    Regular Member Interceptor_Knight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by protias View Post
    The "in or on" part is key here. A handgun can be "in" the vehicle. A glovebox is "in" a vehicle, same with the center counsel, same with under the seat, same with in the trunk. .
    You already know my opinion on 941.23.
    All I am going to add here is that 167.31 does not grant you permission to do anything. It does not make anything legal. It does not authorize you to do anything. What it does is prohibit very specific actions. With the changes effective one week from today and speaking of cars/trucks, it prohibits you from placing/having a loaded long gun in a vehicle whatsoever and on a moving vehicle. That is all it does. It does not authorize you to place a handgun IN a vehicle whether that be on the dash, under the seat, in the glovebox, etc. It simply does not prohibit you from doing so.

    As of November 19th 2011...

    167.31  Safe use and transportation of firearms and bows.
    (2) (b) (intro.) Except as provided in sub. (4),
    no person may place, possess, or transport a firearm, bow,
    or crossbow in or on a vehicle, unless the one of the following
    applies:

    1. The firearm is unloaded or is a handgun

    (2) (c) Except as provided in sub. (4), no person
    may load a firearm, other than a handgun in a vehicle or discharge a firearm
    or shoot a bolt or an arrow from a bow or crossbow in or
    from a vehicle

    (4) (ag) Subsection (2) (b) 1. does not apply
    to a firearm that is placed or possessed on a vehicle that
    is stationary.

  12. #12
    Founder's Club Member protias's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Interceptor_Knight View Post
    You already know my opinion on 941.23.
    Yes sir I certainly do.

    Quote Originally Posted by Interceptor_Knight View Post
    All I am going to add here is that 167.31 does not grant you permission to do anything. It does not make anything legal. It does not authorize you to do anything. What it does is prohibit very specific actions. With the changes effective one week from today and speaking of cars/trucks, it prohibits you from placing/having a loaded long gun in a vehicle whatsoever and on a moving vehicle. That is all it does. It does not authorize you to place a handgun IN a vehicle whether that be on the dash, under the seat, in the glovebox, etc. It simply does not prohibit you from doing so.

    As of November 19th 2011...
    Agreed. I also agree that this law needs to be clarified as there is too much confusion what is legal and what is not.
    No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. Thomas Jefferson (1776)

    If you go into a store, with a gun, and rob it, you have forfeited your right to not get shot - Joe Deters, Hamilton County (Cincinnati) Prosecutor

    I ask sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people except for a few politicians. - George Mason (father of the Bill of Rights and The Virginia Declaration of Rights)

  13. #13
    Regular Member Interceptor_Knight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by protias View Post
    I also agree that this law needs to be clarified as there is too much confusion what is legal and what is not.
    I assume you are referring to 941.23. You are looking for clarification of what is considered "hidden" for the purposes of determining if it is concealed or not?
    This has zero to do with 167.31 as it has been cleaned up considerably and only prohibits 2 things in regards to firearms and cars/trucks. 1 being a loaded long gun in a vehicle and the other being a loaded long gun on a vehicle if the vehicle is in motion.
    I forgot the 3rd thing which is discharging a firearm from a vehicle.
    Last edited by Interceptor_Knight; 11-13-2011 at 01:08 AM.

  14. #14
    Founder's Club Member protias's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Interceptor_Knight View Post
    I assume you are referring to 941.23. You are looking for clarification of what is considered "hidden" for the purposes of determining if it is concealed or not?
    This has zero to do with 167.31 as it has been cleaned up considerably and only prohibits 2 things in regards to firearms and cars/trucks. 1 being a loaded long gun in a vehicle and the other being a loaded long gun on a vehicle if the vehicle is in motion.
    I'm not confused by either. Like I said earlier, some say having a loaded firearm on your hip/glove box/console/etc in the vehicle is concealed. I am not of that opinion.
    No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. Thomas Jefferson (1776)

    If you go into a store, with a gun, and rob it, you have forfeited your right to not get shot - Joe Deters, Hamilton County (Cincinnati) Prosecutor

    I ask sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people except for a few politicians. - George Mason (father of the Bill of Rights and The Virginia Declaration of Rights)

  15. #15
    Regular Member Interceptor_Knight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by protias View Post
    Like I said earlier, some say having a loaded firearm on your hip/glove box/console/etc in the vehicle is concealed. I am not of that opinion.
    Which is exactly what I just said. The reason some are of the opinion that it is concealed is because it meets the definition of hidden established by case law. For whatever reason, you do not believe that it is hidden when it is on the hip, in the glove box, console, etc

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hostilefreak View Post
    I applied for my CCW but have not received it yet. So that means that I cannot have a loaded uncased handgun for instance on my passenger seat. I have to have my license in order for that to be valid correct?
    Quote Originally Posted by protias View Post
    Incorrect. You may have the firearm loaded in the vehicle. Some are of the opinion it must be seen (so on the dash), but I am of the opinion you may have a loaded firearm anywhere inside the vehicle.
    I disagree with protias (he's still an awesome guy!), but I'm going to offer my argument as to why, so that Hostilefreak can make an informed decision having heard both sides.


    Hostilefreak, if you were to be charged with 941.23, carrying a concealed weapon, because the cops found you with a handgun on your passenger seat, they will use the statute along with current case law and the current definition of concealed against you in any court you try to fight the charge.

    941.23
    https://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/sta...tes/941/III/23

    And State V. Walls:
    A handgun on the seat of a car that was indiscernible from ordinary observation by a person outside, and within the immediate vicinity, of the vehicle was hidden from view for purposes of determining whether the gun was a concealed weapon under this section. State v. Walls, 190 Wis. 2d 65, 526 N.W.2d 765

    Now, let me offer some exact text from the decision rendered in that case by the judges and the court of appeals.
    http://scholar.google.com/scholar_ca...=4,50&as_vis=1
    (1) the weapon was a semi-automatic handgun located inside an automobile and within Walls' reach; (2) he was aware of the presence of the weapon; and (3) the weapon was concealed, or hidden from ordinary view, meaning it was indiscernible from the ordinary observation of a person located outside and within the immediate vicinity of the vehicle.
    Upon inspecting the vehicle, the officers spotted an Intratec 9-mm semi-automatic handgun lying on the front seat. The handgun was approximately thirteen inches long from the tip of the barrel to the handgrip, and had a blackened, gun-metal finish. The automobile front seat was red in color. After they found the handgun, the police arrested Walls for carrying a concealed weapon.
    The court determined that regardless of whether the police could see the black handgun lying on the red front seat upon inspecting the vehicle, the handgun was concealed to "ordinary observation" as the automobile traveled down the street prior to being stopped. Thus, a person "approaching" the vehicle, or "passing" it "on the streets or highways" could not see the handgun. Thus, the trial court found Walls guilty because the handgun was concealed and violative of 941.23, STATS.
    While the police officers did observe the gun lying on the front seat after they handcuffed Walls, this was upon the "inspection" and "examination" of the automobile pursuant to the stop and thus, cannot be considered "ordinary observation."
    Last edited by bmwguy11; 11-13-2011 at 08:42 AM.

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