Lord Sega
Regular Member
I'm in Oregon, I got my CHL permit, not to CC but to avoid some cities unloaded OC regulations.
Also have been reading about California (pre upcoming ban) & other states that have unloaded OC requirements.
Combined with with Tueller Drill statistics about draw time vs BG coming at you with a knife made me think...
Ignoring how you got to the point of confrontation:
1. Loaded OC allows draw & fire while allowing you to use your off hand/arm to block or defend against the knife strike (better to take the hit on your off arm and not your body/neck/head).
2. Loaded CC requires you to spend a little more time to clear the weapon and may require use of your off hand so you can't block incoming knife.
3. Unloaded OC requires even more time to draw, use off hand for magazine, insert, work slide before you can fire, again this requires use of your off hand so you can't block incoming knife.
First question:
Have there been any studies like Tueller (loaded OC) for CC or unloaded OC?
If Tueller estimates 1.5-2 sec to draw and fire, and a BG can cover 21 ft in that time. What would the "danger zone" be for CC or unloaded OC?
"He was 45 ft away with a knife, he's no threat, you should not have fired." (prosecutor)
"Your state / city law requires unloaded carry, time to load and protect myself is now 5 seconds instead of 2 when loaded carry, which is a 53 ft danger zone." (defendant)
Second question:
What about elderly or handicapped?
If state or city requires unloaded OC/CC what about people who could defend themselves with a loaded weapon, but it takes them extra time to load?
1. Arthritis: can shoot fine, but requires much more time at home to load.
2. Bad or missing hand/arm: again, can shoot fine with other hand, but requires much more time or assistance to load at home.
3. Really any reason that makes a person slower on the loading of a weapon when there are no issues with its use (loaded) in a situation.
I have never seen any exceptions written into any state laws (admittedly, just from reading forums, and reading a few state regulations) that would allow "differently-abled" (PC) to carry loaded when unloaded is the law. Would / could changes be pushed under Americans with Disabilities Act"? But what if you don't have an official disability?
Again this is assuming that you can handle a loaded weapon well enough to defend yourself, but would have issues with loading the weapon in a situation.
Side thought... could the city or state be sued if a person is severely hurt but survives (or sued by family if the person dies) if it can be shown that they most likely could have prevented the death/damage by drawing in 2 seconds a loaded weapon in defense, but due to the unloaded requirements of the city or state it took too long to load and therefore the city/state restricted their 2A rights of self defense and the city/state is responsible for their damage or death?
Thoughts?
Also have been reading about California (pre upcoming ban) & other states that have unloaded OC requirements.
Combined with with Tueller Drill statistics about draw time vs BG coming at you with a knife made me think...
Ignoring how you got to the point of confrontation:
1. Loaded OC allows draw & fire while allowing you to use your off hand/arm to block or defend against the knife strike (better to take the hit on your off arm and not your body/neck/head).
2. Loaded CC requires you to spend a little more time to clear the weapon and may require use of your off hand so you can't block incoming knife.
3. Unloaded OC requires even more time to draw, use off hand for magazine, insert, work slide before you can fire, again this requires use of your off hand so you can't block incoming knife.
First question:
Have there been any studies like Tueller (loaded OC) for CC or unloaded OC?
If Tueller estimates 1.5-2 sec to draw and fire, and a BG can cover 21 ft in that time. What would the "danger zone" be for CC or unloaded OC?
"He was 45 ft away with a knife, he's no threat, you should not have fired." (prosecutor)
"Your state / city law requires unloaded carry, time to load and protect myself is now 5 seconds instead of 2 when loaded carry, which is a 53 ft danger zone." (defendant)
Second question:
What about elderly or handicapped?
If state or city requires unloaded OC/CC what about people who could defend themselves with a loaded weapon, but it takes them extra time to load?
1. Arthritis: can shoot fine, but requires much more time at home to load.
2. Bad or missing hand/arm: again, can shoot fine with other hand, but requires much more time or assistance to load at home.
3. Really any reason that makes a person slower on the loading of a weapon when there are no issues with its use (loaded) in a situation.
I have never seen any exceptions written into any state laws (admittedly, just from reading forums, and reading a few state regulations) that would allow "differently-abled" (PC) to carry loaded when unloaded is the law. Would / could changes be pushed under Americans with Disabilities Act"? But what if you don't have an official disability?
Again this is assuming that you can handle a loaded weapon well enough to defend yourself, but would have issues with loading the weapon in a situation.
Side thought... could the city or state be sued if a person is severely hurt but survives (or sued by family if the person dies) if it can be shown that they most likely could have prevented the death/damage by drawing in 2 seconds a loaded weapon in defense, but due to the unloaded requirements of the city or state it took too long to load and therefore the city/state restricted their 2A rights of self defense and the city/state is responsible for their damage or death?
Thoughts?