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Thread: UVA Approves Regulation banning firearms :(

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    Regular Member Jay's Avatar
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    UVA Approves Regulation banning firearms :(

    http://www.nbc29.com/story/16021207/...uns-on-grounds


    University of Virginia Press Release

    Friday the University of Virginia Board of Visitors approved a regulation prohibiting weapons at the University, its medical center and the College at Wise.

    The regulation, which will be submitted to the state next week, will go into effect upon publication in the Virginia Register and will be published later in the Virginia Administrative Code. No further state approvals are required.

    UVA already has a policy banning weapons. Attorney General Kenneth T. Cuccinelli wrote an advisory opinion in July that the policy cannot apply to those with concealed-weapon permits because it did not have the force of law. A regulation, such as the one at George Mason University, however, is enforceable, he said.

    The Virginia Supreme Court upheld Mason's regulation after gun owner Rudolph DiGiacinto sued, arguing that the ban on guns in campus buildings violates the state's constitution.

    The University's regulation is both consistent with its prior policy and the Virginia Supreme Court's guidance on this issue in the DiGiacinto case.

    The regulation applies to faculty, staff and students who are anywhere on University property and to members of the general public who are on University property in "academic, administrative, athletic, entertainment or student residence buildings, child care or dining facilities, the University Medical Center or while attending sporting, entertainment or educational activities."

    Exceptions are made for educational or artistic displays and University-approved training. Requests for such uses will be considered by University Police on a case-by-case basis.
    "Experience is a wonderful thing. It enables you to recognize a mistake when you make it again"

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    Founder's Club Member thebigsd's Avatar
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    Oh, we really need a solid college carry bill this year. I can't wait to see Cuccinelli at the VCDL meeting.
    "When seconds count between living or dying, the police are only minutes away."

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    Regular Member Badger Johnson's Avatar
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    It's ridiculous, because the way UVa grounds and the Med Ctr are constructed, during the day you can not do a lock-down - too many ways to get in the building, buildings are linked. There are no metal detectors (except in the Athletic arena where they have concerts).

    So, if you CC they can't stop you. Failing to realize this, and that criminals won't follow a sissy 'University Regulation' (hell they won't obey a Federal or State law, what makes UVa think it will stop them?), UVa is just declaring itself a Crime-Rich Target.

    Further, if the reg stays the same as at VT (Usually you are asked to leave, or you'll get trespassed or up on Conduct charges if an employee), it's a paper tiger.

    $.02
    A gun in a holster is better than one drawn and dispensing bullets. Concealed forces the latter. - ixtow

    Hi, I'm hypercritical. But I mean no harm, I just like to try to look deeply at life

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    One by one, the institutions of "higher learning" in Virginia are racing to see how fast they can show the world exactly how stupid their leaders really are.

    As I have said numerous times before, what they want is for nobody to come on campus and shoot people. This regulation does nothing to prevent that.

    How pathetic.

    TFred

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    Regular Member Uber_Olafsun's Avatar
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    Please someone hammer on him on how colleges get this authority? The regulation crap that colleges put up is crap. What's next? I am sorry but a college should not even think they have the ability to make a law. Their policies that students agree to are one matter but this is affecting non students as well.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badger Johnson View Post
    It's ridiculous, because the way UVa grounds and the Med Ctr are constructed, during the day you can not do a lock-down - too many ways to get in the building, buildings are linked. There are no metal detectors (except in the Athletic arena where they have concerts).

    So, if you CC they can't stop you. Failing to realize this, and that criminals won't follow a sissy 'University Regulation' (hell they won't obey a Federal or State law, what makes UVa think it will stop them?), UVa is just declaring itself a Crime-Rich Target.

    Further, if the reg stays the same as at VT (Usually you are asked to leave, or you'll get trespassed or up on Conduct charges if an employee), it's a paper tiger.

    $.02
    Disagree that it is a "paper tiger" for employees and students. Try getting another university job after being fired for cause or getting into another school after being expelled for breaking their rules. No - they are being disarmed under threat of destroying their future.

    Insofar as non-affiliated persons carrying on campus, come to Va Tech Nov 17th and see 1st hand how that works, or watch the film clips from the comfort of your lounge chair that evening.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    More comments needed

    There is no sign-in required to leave comments on that article's web page.

    TFred

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    Regular Member Badger Johnson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Disagree that it is a "paper tiger" for employees and students.
    If we were back in the days when the smallest firearm you could pack was a musket, then yes, they are putting people at risk if some disgruntled patient comes in a-shootin', because it's hard to CC a musket.

    But today, if I had a serious need to pack a firearm (say I went to MCV in Richmond where it's pretty dangerous) I could easily CC and never be discovered.

    I do get your point and it's sad they are disarming students and threatening careers simply because people wanted to defend themselves, people who had committed no crime, no violent act, no victims were harmed, in fact the person didn't DO anything, they just carried a tool like a cell-phone and they risk their future.

    What happened to prosecuting REAL criminals UVA?
    A gun in a holster is better than one drawn and dispensing bullets. Concealed forces the latter. - ixtow

    Hi, I'm hypercritical. But I mean no harm, I just like to try to look deeply at life

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    Regular Member USNA69's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jay View Post
    http://www.nbc29.com/story/16021207/...uns-on-grounds


    University of Virginia Press Release

    Friday the University of Virginia Board of Visitors approved a regulation prohibiting weapons at the University, its medical center and the College at Wise.

    The regulation, which will be submitted to the state next week, will go into effect upon publication in the Virginia Register and will be published later in the Virginia Administrative Code. No further state approvals are required.
    THANK GOD THAT IS NOW DONE!!

    Now we can all rest easy in the knowledge that there will never, ever, be a gun related injury or death at UVA.

  10. #10
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Added my comment, for what it's worth. Challenged UVa to step out from behind the shield of soverign immunity if they are so convinced this will prevent crimes.

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

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    Regular Member Uber_Olafsun's Avatar
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    I so wish that any place that banned firearms had to take on the liability of protecting those they strip of their rights. I think it would stop so many of these reflex reactions.

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    Activist Member nuc65's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uber_Olafsun View Post
    I so wish that any place that banned firearms had to take on the liability of protecting those they strip of their rights. I think it would stop so many of these reflex reactions.
    +1
    When I carry a gun, I don't do so because I am looking for a fight, but because I'm looking to be left alone. The gun at my side means that I cannot be forced, only persuaded. I don't carry it because I'm afraid, but because it enables me to be unafraid. It doesn't limit the actions of those who would interact with me through reason, only the actions of those who would do so by force.

    excerpt By Marko Kloos (http://munchkinwrangler.wordpress.com/?s=major+caudill)

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    Regular Member doug23838's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uber_Olafsun View Post
    I so wish that any place that banned firearms had to take on the liability of protecting those they strip of their rights. I think it would stop so many of these reflex reactions.
    Yes. the GFZ liability act.

    http://www.gunlaws.com/GFZ/GFZ-BillReview.htm

  14. #14
    Accomplished Advocate user's Avatar
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    What we need is to get friendly folks on the boards of visitors of all of these institutions.
    Daniel L. Hawes - 540 347 2430 - HTTP://www.VirginiaLegalDefense.com

    By the way, nothing I say on this website as "user" should be taken as either advertising for attorney services or legal advice, merely personal opinion. Everyone having a question regarding the application of law to the facts of their situation should seek the advice of an attorney competent in the subject matter of the issues presented and licensed to practice in the relevant state.

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    Regular Member USNA69's Avatar
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    VCDL in the news

    Norfolk Virginian-Pilot, 13 Nov, LTE:

    Safety requires gun limits
    Re “Guns make ODU safer,” letters, Nov. 8: The writer stated that the “backgrounds of people licensed to carry a concealed firearm have been checked, and those people are found to be reasonable and sane citizens.” Technically, this statement is inaccurate as there is no actual test of reasonableness, sanity or even citizenship associated with the concealed handgun permit application process. (USNA69: Neither are there any such tests to operate a motor vehicle, statistically a much deadlier weapon than a firearm.)
    What the writer also fails to appreciate is that the group that organized the protest at ODU, the Virginia Citizens Defense League, has as one of its stated goals the repeal of the firearms background check system, while another is the eventual elimination of the concealed carry permit system altogether.
    Should the VCDL succeed in its mission of forcing ODU and other Virginia colleges to allow concealed weapons on campus and also succeed in eliminating the concealed handgun permit process, then anyone would be legally allowed to carry a concealed handgun on campus. (USNA69: "Allowed" to exercise a constitutional right???? "Allowed" by whom? Is that the same as being "allowed" to vote or "allowed" speak and write freely or "allowed" to have a trial by jury or "allowed" to ... (insert your favorite Constitutionally guaranteed right).
    This would completely negate his assertion that only law-abiding individuals would carry concealed guns on campus and thus make it “safer.” (USNA69: Where would I begin? You guys take it from here.)
    Andrew L. Goddard President, Virginia Center for Public Safety Henrico

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by user View Post
    What we need is to get friendly folks on the boards of visitors of all of these institutions.
    How do you do that? Isn't it a closed, by invitation only, good ol' boy's club?
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Lone Star Veteran DrMark's Avatar
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    Commented:

    "I'm deeply disappointed in the UVA Board of Visitors decision to place an attempt to lessen their liability above the safety of those on campus.

    The administration of Virginia Tech already has blood from the Cho incident on their hands. It's tragic that the UVA Board of Visitors is willing to be complicit in enabling the next Cho-type incident. "


    I'm still not clear how these universtity can create something with the force of law without going through the state government.

  18. #18
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrMark View Post
    Commented:
    ....snip....
    I'm still not clear how these universtity can create something with the force of law without going through the state government.
    The Virginia Administrative Code is parallel to statute law with certain limitations. Our state government has decided to allow agencies and municipalities the privilege of making their own operating rules. The problem occurs when these rules or resolutions conflict with the true statutes.

    In this case, the "force of law" subjects one to a charge of trespass at best. Guess that they think that will make college/universities safer i.e. don't kill, maim or rape - you may be charged with trespass.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Founder's Club Member ixtow's Avatar
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    Target-rich environment is rich in targets...

    They're essentially advertising "We want you kids to die" to parents.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nova View Post
    The Board of Visitors at public universities are appointed by the governor.
    Then why are we having such a difficult time with 2A rights on campuses if we have such a conservative governor??
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Activist Member Wolf_shadow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nova View Post
    The Board of Visitors at public universities are appointed by the governor.
    If apointed by the Gov., how are they selected? See current list for UVA http://www.virginia.edu/bov/tenurelist.html. A. Macdonald Caputo Greenwich, CT., Glynn D. Key Washington, D.C., John L. Nau III Houston, TX., Edward D. Miller, M.D. Baltimore, MD.

    Why are out of staters on the BOV for a VA Public University?
    Last edited by Wolf_shadow; 11-13-2011 at 07:23 PM.

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    I take it then that there is no opportunity for public comment or opposition prior to the implementation of this regulation? This hodge-podge of regulations not only serves to prohibit students and visitors from protecting themselves but it sets up al kinds of traps for the unknowing person to enter an unmarked university building and violate the regulation.

  23. #23
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmelvin View Post
    I take it then that there is no opportunity for public comment or opposition prior to the implementation of this regulation? This hodge-podge of regulations not only serves to prohibit students and visitors from protecting themselves but it sets up al kinds of traps for the unknowing person to enter an unmarked university building and violate the regulation.
    Ignorance of the law is no excuse - unless you are a police officer.

    Besides, it must be published in the Virginia Register before it takes effect. Surely that is onme of your daily reads, just like it is for 99.9% of the population.

    And no, there is no provision for public comment, as if they would care if anyone opposed it or not.

    This is why we need legislation that deliniates the powers of Boards of Visitors more clearly, as well as an amendment to preemption that will include state-level boards, agencies, commissions, etc. as well as local government entities. If the General Assembly thinks it is a good thing to restrict guns on college/university campuses (campii for you sticklers) then let the General Assembly say so.

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
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  24. #24
    Regular Member streetdoc's Avatar
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    We can comment on the proposed regulation, 8VAC85-20-10 and 8VAC85-20-20, (link to actual regulation: http://admin.nbc29.com/assets/UVAWeaponsRegulation.pdf).

    The process can be found here: http://legis.state.va.us/codecomm/register/regindex.htm, and http://www.townhall.virginia.gov/L/ListBoards.cfm.

    You can go to "Browse Regulations By" http://www.townhall.virginia.gov/L/Forums.cfm and see current regulations by functional area, go to "Education" then select the University or topic you want to review.

    Currently the proposed regulation is not listed, it has not been submitted yet so you wont be able to see it. What you are going to need to do is go to the Administrative Code Web Site then select the "Virginia Regulatory Town Hall" and select "Public comment forums"

    The section that we are going to want to comment on is:
    "C. General public and visitors. The possession, storage, or use of any weapon by the general public or visitors, except a law-enforcement officer, on university property in academic, administrative, athletic, entertainment, or student residence buildings, child care or dining facilities, or the University Medical Center, or while attending sporting, entertainment, or educational activities is prohibited."
    'Till the last landings made, and we stand unafraid, on a shore not mortal has seen,
    'Till the last bugle call, sounds taps for us all,
    It's Semper Fidelis, MARINE!

  25. #25
    Regular Member Sesrun's Avatar
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    You can also register to be notified by email when any regulatory action affects certain subject areas (like education) which have subcatagories (such as University of Virginia). Hopefully this proposed regulation will appear soon for it's 60 day comment window.

    http://www.townhall.virginia.gov/L/Register.cfm


    ***
    Also check out this Virginia Register (24OCT2011 Volume 28 Issue 4):
    http://legis.state.va.us/codecomm/re...s04/v28i04.htm

    8VAC115-20. Weapons on Campus (Proposed)
    William & Mary's Proposed Weapons ban Regulation

    They are claiming exemption "from the Administrative Process Act in accordance with § 2.2-4002 A 6," however that exemption is only relevent if it involves "their academic affairs, (ii) the selection, tenure, promotion and disciplining of faculty and employees, (iii) the selection of students, and (iv) rules of conduct and disciplining of students." Looks as if their regulation falls outside that exemption since it also regulates the public while on university property... Doesn't look as if it is open for public comment online. Maybe this "exemption" makes it so the public can't comment?
    Last edited by Sesrun; 11-14-2011 at 01:36 PM.

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