UVA Approves Regulation banning firearms :(

nova said:

The Board of Visitors at public universities are appointed by the governor.

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If apointed by the Gov., how are they selected? See current list for UVA http://www.virginia.edu/bov/tenurelist.html. A. Macdonald Caputo Greenwich, CT., Glynn D. Key Washington, D.C., John L. Nau III Houston, TX., Edward D. Miller, M.D. Baltimore, MD.

Why are out of staters on the BOV for a VA Public University?:shocker:

I take it then that there is no opportunity for public comment or opposition prior to the implementation of this regulation? This hodge-podge of regulations not only serves to prohibit students and visitors from protecting themselves but it sets up al kinds of traps for the unknowing person to enter an unmarked university building and violate the regulation.

jmelvin said:

I take it then that there is no opportunity for public comment or opposition prior to the implementation of this regulation? This hodge-podge of regulations not only serves to prohibit students and visitors from protecting themselves but it sets up al kinds of traps for the unknowing person to enter an unmarked university building and violate the regulation.

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Ignorance of the law is no excuse - unless you are a police officer.

Besides, it must be published in the Virginia Register before it takes effect. Surely that is onme of your daily reads, just like it is for 99.9% of the population.:uhoh:

And no, there is no provision for public comment, as if they would care if anyone opposed it or not.

This is why we need legislation that deliniates the powers of Boards of Visitors more clearly, as well as an amendment to preemption that will include state-level boards, agencies, commissions, etc. as well as local government entities. If the General Assembly thinks it is a good thing to restrict guns on college/university campuses (campii for you sticklers) then let the General Assembly say so.

stay safe.

We can comment on the proposed regulation, 8VAC85-20-10 and 8VAC85-20-20, (link to actual regulation: http://admin.nbc29.com/assets/UVAWeaponsRegulation.pdf).

The process can be found here: http://legis.state.va.us/codecomm/register/regindex.htm, and http://www.townhall.virginia.gov/L/ListBoards.cfm.

You can go to "Browse Regulations By" http://www.townhall.virginia.gov/L/Forums.cfm and see current regulations by functional area, go to "Education" then select the University or topic you want to review.

Currently the proposed regulation is not listed, it has not been submitted yet so you wont be able to see it. What you are going to need to do is go to the Administrative Code Web Site then select the "Virginia Regulatory Town Hall" and select "Public comment forums"

The section that we are going to want to comment on is:
"C. General public and visitors. The possession, storage, or use of any weapon by the general public or visitors, except a law-enforcement officer, on university property in academic, administrative, athletic, entertainment, or student residence buildings, child care or dining facilities, or the University Medical Center, or while attending sporting, entertainment, or educational activities is prohibited."

You can also register to be notified by email when any regulatory action affects certain subject areas (like education) which have subcatagories (such as University of Virginia). Hopefully this proposed regulation will appear soon for it's 60 day comment window.

http://www.townhall.virginia.gov/L/Register.cfm


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Also check out this Virginia Register (24OCT2011 Volume 28 Issue 4):
http://legis.state.va.us/codecomm/register/vol28/iss04/v28i04.htm

8VAC115-20. Weapons on Campus (Proposed)
William & Mary's Proposed Weapons ban Regulation

They are claiming exemption "from the Administrative Process Act in accordance with § 2.2-4002 A 6," however that exemption is only relevent if it involves "their academic affairs, (ii) the selection, tenure, promotion and disciplining of faculty and employees, (iii) the selection of students, and (iv) rules of conduct and disciplining of students." Looks as if their regulation falls outside that exemption since it also regulates the public while on university property... Doesn't look as if it is open for public comment online. Maybe this "exemption" makes it so the public can't comment?

College sexual assaults rarely end in arrest, prosecution

Uber_Olafsun said:

I so wish that any place that banned firearms had to take on the liability of protecting those they strip of their rights. I think it would stop so many of these reflex reactions.

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Well, read this:

Va. college sexual assaults rarely end in arrest, prosecution

The campus policewoman who responded to Kathryn Russell's call that she had been raped in her University of Virginia dorm took her sheets and clothing and told her, "It's a tough lesson to learn, huh?"

It was a dismissive attitude that Russell said doomed the investigation from the start.

"There was no justice for me," said Russell, who with her mother is the force behind a measure under study by the State Crime Commission that seeks to change the way rapes on campus are investigated.

The commission's hearing this Wednesday on the proposal, which could transfer major-crime investigations to local law-enforcement agencies, comes as universities are under pressure from the U.S. Department of Education to respond more aggressively to sexual violence on campus.

...

Kathryn Russell transferred from U.Va. after her junior year in 2004 because her alleged assailant was found not guilty in such a proceeding. The next year, she said, he was accused of raping another student.

"I was constantly stonewalled," Russell said of her efforts to have her case handled as a criminal investigation. "They don't want to hear about it because it makes the school look bad, basically."

U.Va. officials adamantly deny a conflict exists.

"The last thing we want to do is harbor a rapist. Why would that be in our self-interest?" said Susan Davis, U.Va.'s associate vice president for student affairs and liaison to Office of the General Counsel.

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I got news for you UVA clowns: you already look bad - get a clue.

Sesrun said:

You can also register to be notified by email when any regulatory action affects certain subject areas (like education) which have subcatagories (such as University of Virginia). Hopefully this proposed regulation will appear soon for it's 60 day comment window.

http://www.townhall.virginia.gov/L/Register.cfm


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Also check out this Virginia Register (24OCT2011 Volume 28 Issue 4):
http://legis.state.va.us/codecomm/register/vol28/iss04/v28i04.htm

8VAC115-20. Weapons on Campus (Proposed)
William & Mary's Proposed Weapons ban Regulation

They are claiming exemption "from the Administrative Process Act in accordance with § 2.2-4002 A 6," however that exemption is only relevent if it involves "their academic affairs, (ii) the selection, tenure, promotion and disciplining of faculty and employees, (iii) the selection of students, and (iv) rules of conduct and disciplining of students." Looks as if their regulation falls outside that exemption since it also regulates the public while on university property... Doesn't look as if it is open for public comment online. Maybe this "exemption" makes it so the public can't comment?

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This was hashed out round and round when the AG's opinion first came out, and I don't know that a consensus was ever reached.

This might be where the battle is won or lost.

Generally, the state organizations would not and should not be allowed to create regulations (which act as law) in a vacuum, away from all the scrutiny normally afforded the legislative process. This exemption was granted so that they could basically run their own house, as it impacts only their own community.

Trying to use this exemption when their regulation clearly affects all citizens who choose to utilize their own public property is not only a gross misinterpretation of the rule, it's ethically reprehensible, no better than the Saslaw/Marsh "death committees", designed to circumvent the will of the people and the very foundation of self-governance.

Ask me nice, and I'll tell you how I really feel!

TFred

There are some real loons showing up in the comments section of that article linked in the original post.

I don't believe they followed the law by not having public input

VCDL is fighting this - I working some channels already.

VCDL President said:

VCDL is fighting this - I working some channels already.

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thank you, Sir!

Thank God! I wondered if anything was happening so it's good to hear you confirm it VCDL President!

I checked the Regulatory Town Hall listing today, still nothing posted there for the change in the UVA Regulations.

streetdoc said:

I checked the Regulatory Town Hall listing today, still nothing posted there for the change in the UVA Regulations.

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As I understand the rules, if these Universities "get away with" violating the exception, there will be no publication forthcoming. I may be wrong, it may be that no publication seeking comments is required and that they will still publish a final notice of the change.

All I know for sure is that they will not be playing by the rules.

TFred

Got approved with no public comment period, They Need To Be Put In There Place!!!!!

From Virginia Administrative Code: http://lis.virginia.gov/cgi-bin/legp604.exe?000+reg+8VAC85-20-30

8VAC85-20-30. Weapons, fireworks, and explosives prohibited.

A. The safety of the university community is promoted by the reasonable regulation of weapons, fireworks, and explosives.

B. Members of the university community. The possession, storage, or use of any weapon by any university student, faculty, employee, trainee, or volunteer, except a law-enforcement officer, on university property is prohibited.

C. General public and visitors. The possession, storage, or use of any weapon by the general public or visitors, except a law-enforcement officer, on university property in academic, administrative, athletic, entertainment, or student residence buildings, child care or dining facilities, or the University Medical Center, or while attending sporting, entertainment, or educational activities is prohibited.

D. Exceptions. In the following circumstances, the Chief of the University Police Department, or his designee, may authorize in writing a person to possess, store, or use a weapon: (i) educational or artistic display, parade, or ceremony in connection with a university-sponsored activity (unloaded or disabled only and with other specified safeguards, if appropriate); (ii) official military or Reserve Officer Training Corps (ROTC) activities; (iii) university contracted protection or security details; (iv) any university-approved training, course, or class; or (v) university personnel, other than law-enforcement officers, required to possess a weapon as part of their official duties. A request for permission pursuant to one of the exceptions in this subsection shall be addressed in advance to the Chief of the University Police Department where it will be evaluated on a case-by-case basis in accordance with state and federal law, university policy, and the safety of the university community.

E. Fireworks and other explosives. Except as approved by authorized university personnel or otherwise authorized by applicable university policies and procedures, the possession, storage, or use of any firework or other explosive or any lethal combustible chemical or combination of chemicals on university property or while attending sporting, entertainment, or educational activities is prohibited.

Statutory Authority

§ 23-76 of the Code of Virginia.

Historical Notes

Derived from Virginia Register Volume 28, Issue 7, eff. December 5, 2011.

If there were not rules i.e. VAC, then there would be none to ignore; or in other words, we don't care what the rules say, we are going to do it anyway.

Shameless hypocrisy. They want us to mind/obey the rules, but they disregard them.

Rules only apply to the law abiding

We have always known that Universities do not so abide. Why they expect anyone else especially criminals is the height of hypocracy.

I challenge any UVA history professor to cite any example in the history of the world in which a nation insured its safety and security by means of unilateral disarmament.

I just sent this to my Delegate

As the next Legislative Session is about to get underway there are several Firearm issues I would like to bring to your attention even before there are Bills for these.

1. We need to pass legislation that also preempts all State Agencies, including Educational Institution, from approving and passing their own regulations or Administrative Code in regards to firearm possession and lawful carry. For example, are you aware that UVA just passed just passed 8VAC85-20-30 with and effective date of Dec 5, 2011. This change was never posted in the Virginia Regulatory Town Hall System to allow for public comment, they claim exemption from the Administrative Process Act in accordance with § 2.2-4002 A 6 of the Code of Virginia, which exempts educational institutions operated by the Commonwealth.
2. We also need to take away from “§ 15.2-915. Control of firearms; applicability to authorities and local governmental agencies.” their ability to prohibit their employees from appropriately securing in their vehicles, lawfully owned firearms, that these employees keep for lawful uses before and after their work hours. As you know, commuting hours are much longer than what they use to be, and stops are made both before and after work hours where a firearm may be needed for an individual’s safety or other lawful purposes, i.e., range time, hunting, etc.

As the various bills get announced I will be contacting you to give you my opinion and input. I am also looking forward to seeing you on Lobby Day, we always have such good conversations.

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Here is the reference that UVA is claiming that makes it so they don't need public comment, http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+2.2-4002 which states in part:

"§ 2.2-4002. Exemptions from chapter generally.

A. Although required to comply with § 2.2-4103 of the Virginia Register Act (§ 2.2-4100 et seq.), the following agencies shall be exempted from the provisions of this chapter, except to the extent that they are specifically made subject to §§ 2.2-4024, 2.2-4030 and 2.2-4031:

1. The General Assembly.

2. Courts, any agency of the Supreme Court, and any agency that by the Constitution is expressly granted any of the powers of a court of record.

3. The Department of Game and Inland Fisheries in promulgating regulations regarding the management of wildlife and for all case decisions rendered pursuant to any provisions of Chapters 2 (§ 29.1-200 et seq.), 3 (§ 29.1-300 et seq.), 4 (§ 29.1-400 et seq.), 5 (§ 29.1-500 et seq.), and 7 (§ 29.1-700 et seq.) of Title 29.1.

4. The Virginia Housing Development Authority.

5. Municipal corporations, counties, and all local, regional or multijurisdictional authorities created under this Code, including those with federal authorities.

6. Educational institutions operated by the Commonwealth, provided that, with respect to § 2.2-4031, such educational institutions shall be exempt from the publication requirements only with respect to regulations that pertain to (i) their academic affairs, (ii) the selection, tenure, promotion and disciplining of faculty and employees, (iii) the selection of students, and (iv) rules of conduct and disciplining of students. ..."

As you can see their regulation exceeds their authority since it also bans carrying of firearms by the general public inside school facilities, this is especially true when the school runs a Hospital that is open to the public for any and all care, i.e. VCU and UVA Hospitals.

If we can't get something done in the GA this year it will be interesting to see the case that might result from some non-student, non-faculty person entering a UVA facility carrying and getting caught and prosecuted since this regulation was not even promulgated legally with regard to its affect on those not associated with the university. I would think that the person prosecuted may also have a deprivation of rights claim against the university, which could be quite costly the university of successfully made.

It is infuriating that these folks have somehow managed to completely break the rules for creating a policy. Who is in charge of this process, and why did they allow this to happen? Why does our government (Senate Democrats, and now these educational institutions) continue to be allowed to get away with breaking rules?

Is ANYONE doing anything about this? I know there is probably reluctance to sue since that seems to stop the GA from considering legislation. Should be the other way around... legislation in process should stop the courts.

TFred