Alleged robber dies after victim shot him -- Downtown El Paso, TX

Badger Johnson said:

So you support the freedom of criminals to rob someone, but not the freedom to defend yourself against a potentially violent crime? You should seek treatment, because you might be delusional.

Hope this helps.

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Billy D said:

As a thief, you should know going in that your taking a chance

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cloudcroft said:

The moral of this story and so many others like it is (using "you" as a generic you, not referring to anyone in specific here, just to bully-boys/criminals in general):

1. Don't start something/mess with other people as you never know if they are armed or how they will react. They may react as you think (scared and submissive) or they may be "crazy" and shoot you before you can say "give me your money."

2. If they ARE armed, they may shoot you (without saying a word) just as soon as you try to rob/assault them or as soon as you produce a weapon of ANY kind -- gun, knife, bat, tire-iron, screwdriver, box-cutter, finger-nail file, golf club (the weenie liberals' weapon of choice) -- whatever. Or even if you just SAY you're going to hurt or kill them (verbal/physical intimidation/assault), they'll shoot you as they will take your WORD on that. After all, you want them to BELIEVE you, right?

3. It doesn't matter if you get shot/killed because your intended "victim" over-reacted, or shot you illegally (a "bad shoot" if you will), or if you tried to rob them because you just wanted to feed your family. You're taken at face value at that moment and you'll end up shot anyway. If not, you SHOULD have been shot.

4. When you start something/mess with someone, THEY decide what you get back, how it's going to end, not you or even the law. Nor any of us here in this forum -- WE wern't THERE on the line, the "victim" was -- it's HIS or HER call, not ours. And it doesn't matter what happens to the "victim" who shot you later on AFTER the "tragic event" is over -- charged with this or that if it WAS a "bad shoot" -- because YOU were shot/killed regardless, so your life is over. Besides, once the "victim" becomes the criminal, now HE/SHE has all the rights and can use the so-called Criminal Justice System's revolving-door just like other criminals do. Now HE/SHE will be back out on the street in no time. But you're still dead. So sad.

5. Most criminals have no psychological issues with shooting people for ANY reason, so why should people ruminate about shooting criminals? They shouldn't. As Nike used to say, "Just do it." Speak criminals' language, respond with overwhelming force. And you don't have to SAY anything. They understand that kind of "language" so be conversant in it. Yes, you DO have to get down to their level -- for a moment -- the DIFFERENCE is you can come back up to a higher level, but the criminal can't as they're low-lifes, that's just how they are. Trash. And yes, contrary to ignorant public belief, violence really DOES solve things, and a permanent solution is best for everyone.

So in short, don't start something/mess with other people. You deserve ANYTHING they choose -- rightly or wrongly -- to give back to you. If they want to hold you for police, let you run away (because you saw a gun and now aren't some big bad-ass tough-guy anymore), or shoot you dead on the spot (preferred) it's because that's the risk you're talking trying to bully/intimidate/assault/carjack/rob people.

There are LOTS of psycho-people out there appearing to be average citizens -- so don't mess with them.

You might get lucky, or maybe not, but if YOU choose to commit a criminal act against someone -- even try to bully/intimidate (verbally/physically because you're a big bad muscle-bound tough-guy) -- the "victim" can finish it however he/she wants, whether it's "right" (meaning in the eyes of the law) or not...especially if they couldn't care less about the consequences of shooting you. You know, like you'd do to them.

And some people are like that...so choose your "victims" at your own risk.

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ixtow said:

Which is why I have more respect for the average criminal than I do for Cops... At least Criminals are taking a risk for their investment, cops strike from the comfort of the uniform and know there will never be consequences.

Criminals are Capitalists; risk, investment, commitment, supply, demand. Cops are Imperialists and they server the same; take what you want by force, kill all who oppose.

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Billy D said:

The problem with our theory is that criminals are all stupid as hell and ill bet they dont even consider the fact that their "victem" may be armed. o well that thier problem.

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ixtow said:

Criminals are not stupid as hell. The ones that get caught usually are... But consider who's catching them... I know some very intelligent criminals, and they're the most American people you'd ever meet. They have standards and would never, never, ever steal from their fellow man. The smart ones don't get caught, and are no threat to the average citizen. The Black Market is the backbone of America. These people are not stupid, they wouldn't survive if they were.

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Whisprsnthdark said:

I agree with you about the dangers of someone killing without a weapon and the use of their bare hands. Like I stated before drawing the weapon shifts the element of threat. Pointing the gun is considered used even if you do not pull the trigger. Again if they do not desist, pulling the trigger would he the next steps. Even if this happens fast your brain works fast enough to asses the shift in situation. There was no physical altercation in this case it was verbal in which the supposed "victim" drew the gun and fired point blank into the other mans chest. The owner of the vehicle that was allegedly being burglarized was not in the vehicle or near it when the "alleged robber" allegedly approached the vehicle. He went in to confront him. He knowingly carrying a deadly weapon confronted and unarmed asilant. The asilant was wearing a t-shirt that goes just above waistline in length, shorts and flip-flop sandals in broad daylight. The asilant was never in the vehicle and was shot on a public streat during afternoon hours in the day time. Yes everyone has the right to protect your things but is a car or stereo more important than a life regardless of who it is? It's called insurance... We have law enforcement for a reason. I served 8 years in the military and I know everything about selfdefense and using a weapon when my life is endangered, and in a time of war I cannot shoot an unarmed enemy unless he charges at me with intent to kill with or without weapon. We all have the right to bare arms, but you should also have high regards for human life if you are go carry one and point and shoot responsibly, because regardless of the situation and level of endangerment, every one is someoned child, father, friend, or sibling. Too many people deem to justify their excessive force with self defense. That shooting was irresponsible and ended badly regardless of who the victim was, and could of ended worse had he missed and killed a child or someone uninvolved. Not all bullets stop with the penetration of one body some continue to travel. The law protects your actions during night time because you cant see and properly asses the danger, but daytime is different.

A man faces off with another man 100 pounds heavier and stronger. The disadvantage puts his life in danger, then use of a weapon is justified. Two men of equal built face off, one is a black belt of the highest degree in martial arts is defending himself and kills the other man unarmed it's considered murder because along with the knowledge and skill to kill he also has the knowledge to immobilize and subdue his opponent without the need to kill. Add a gun to that scenario and and our high skilled Ninja would have to kill him with a weapon (not by his hands). A robber approaches you at night, your inability to asses weather he is armed because its dark and you cannot see and clear suspicion raises threat and fear in which case you have the right to draw your weapon and use the force necessary to end the threat. Not the same case in daylight. An unarmed man is a threat to another unarmed man. An unarmed man is not a threat to an armed man. If you are sensitive to feeling threatened by any reason and feel justifiable in your own mind you should not carry a weapon. If you are eager to defend yourself, you should not carry a weapon because chances are you will look for any excuse to use force. I had to shoot and kill a 17 year old kid in the head because he appeared to have explosives strapped to his abdomen. I wouldn't of shot him for trying to steal my laptop sitting outside my tent.

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