Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 35

Thread: Rifle Caliber Pistols for the Vehicle

  1. #1
    Regular Member Resdon111's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Sussex, WI
    Posts
    48

    Rifle Caliber Pistols for the Vehicle

    So one of the things that I've been considering, seeing as (generally speaking) only pistols can be carried loaded in a vehicle, is picking up a rifle caliber pistol to keep in the truck. Something like an AR-15 pistol or a Kel-Tec PLR-16 is what I had in mind. My one concern is over whether or not WI considers these to be pistols.

    According to state law 175.60(1)(bm)
    "Handgun" means any weapon designed or redesigned, or made or remade, and intended to be fired while held in one hand and to use the energy of an explosive to expel a projectile through a smooth or rifled bore. "Handgun" does not include a machine gun, as defined in s. 941.27 (1), a short-barreled rifle, as defined in s. 941.28 (1) (b), or a short-barreled shotgun, as defined in s. 941.28 (1) (c).
    I'm concerned that having an accessory rail on the firearm might make it seem like its supposed to be fired with two hands. On the other hand, their lack of a stock ensures that they aren't rifles and with barrels under 16" they aren't SBRs so that would leave only "handgun" to default back to. Forum's thoughts?
    If an American is to amount to anything he must rely upon himself, and not upon the State - Theodore Roosevelt

    Civilian Sheepdog
    Wisconsin Carry Member

  2. #2
    Regular Member Interceptor_Knight's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Green Bay, Wisconsin, USA
    Posts
    2,839
    WI recognizes rifle caliber handguns as handguns, even for hunting in shotgun/handgun only zones. You are good to go with an AR pistol.

  3. #3
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Dodgeville, Wisconsin, USA
    Posts
    22
    Remember....in another week we'll be able to carry an UNLOADED uncased rifle in a vehicle. Why not go with a full blown M4 at that point? doesn't take long to drop in a magazine and hit the bolt release....just make sure your mounting solution is lockable....to avoid issues with those pesky GFSZs.

  4. #4
    Regular Member Grant Guess's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Wisconsin, United States
    Posts
    217
    Technically, you may have a weapon registered as a pistol with a barrel less than 16". Contenders, XP100's, Savage Strykers and similar would apply.

    It becomes kind of sticky with an AR lower if it was originally registered as a rifle.
    Gun Control Defined: The theory that people who are willing to ignore laws against rape, torture, kidnapping, theft and murder will obey a law which prohibits them from owning or carrying a firearm.

  5. #5
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Fond du Lac Wisconsin
    Posts
    171
    Don't put a grip on it ... that would make it an SBR under NFA rules.

  6. #6
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Fond du Lac Wisconsin
    Posts
    171
    Quote Originally Posted by mja1000 View Post
    Remember....in another week we'll be able to carry an UNLOADED uncased rifle in a vehicle. Why not go with a full blown M4 at that point? doesn't take long to drop in a magazine and hit the bolt release....just make sure your mounting solution is lockable....to avoid issues with those pesky GFSZs.
    A full blown M4 is too difficult to manuver inside a vehicle.

  7. #7
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    S.E. Wisconsin
    Posts
    90
    A Draco or a Rossi Ranch Hand would make a good truck gun.

    oscar

  8. #8
    Regular Member AaronS's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Milwaukee, Wisconsin, USA
    Posts
    1,497
    If your AR was sold as a pistol, I see no issue with carry. It should also be fine in your car (with permit as of now I guess).
    Not so sure how you would carry it though, but thats just me.

    If I had an AR pistol, I might keep it in the car from time to time.

  9. #9
    Regular Member Lurchiron's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Shawano,WI.
    Posts
    1,011
    Quote Originally Posted by Resdon111 View Post
    So one of the things that I've been considering, seeing as (generally speaking) only pistols can be carried loaded in a vehicle, is picking up a rifle caliber pistol to keep in the truck. Something like an AR-15 pistol or a Kel-Tec PLR-16 is what I had in mind. My one concern is over whether or not WI considers these to be pistols.

    According to state law 175.60(1)(bm)


    I'm concerned that having an accessory rail on the firearm might make it seem like its supposed to be fired with two hands. On the other hand, their lack of a stock ensures that they aren't rifles and with barrels under 16" they aren't SBRs so that would leave only "handgun" to default back to. Forum's thoughts?
    It's called road hunting; and is shunned by any true hunter...WTF
    Attachment 7383
    Bale da Hay

    "Have you Spanked a leftist today; it's the Right thing to do!!!"


    Within the gates before a man shall go,
    (Fully warily let him watch,)
    Full long let him look about him;
    For little he knows where a foe may lurk,
    And sit in the seats within.

    Havamal (Bellows translation)

  10. #10
    Campaign Veteran rcawdor57's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Wisconsin, USA
    Posts
    1,643

    Thumbs up The Kel-Tec PLR-16 Is A Fine Choice...

    Quote Originally Posted by Resdon111 View Post
    So one of the things that I've been considering, seeing as (generally speaking) only pistols can be carried loaded in a vehicle, is picking up a rifle caliber pistol to keep in the truck. Something like an AR-15 pistol or a Kel-Tec PLR-16 is what I had in mind. My one concern is over whether or not WI considers these to be pistols.

    According to state law 175.60(1)(bm)


    I'm concerned that having an accessory rail on the firearm might make it seem like its supposed to be fired with two hands. On the other hand, their lack of a stock ensures that they aren't rifles and with barrels under 16" they aren't SBRs so that would leave only "handgun" to default back to. Forum's thoughts?
    I've had mine for a year or so and it is one heck of a pistol. It's gas piston operated (not direct gas impingement) and it shoots well. I would suggest you get the flash hider/suppressor for it from Kel-Tec and perhaps the sling kit for it as well as the fore end grips. Those items will set you back another hundred or so but well worth it. Without the fore end grips you stand the chance to "accidentally" grab the barrel after or during shooting....it hurts!

    As for an AR-15 pistol you can build one or buy one. There are many out there but all that I have seen use direct gas impingement except for the Oly Arms...I think it is gas piston driven and it really isn't an AR. IMHO the Kel-Tec PLR-16 takes the cake for what you get for your money. Keep in mind to never add grip/handle to any pistol's fore end...then it becomes either an SBR requiring NFA paperwork. If you do decide to build your own AR-15 pistol I suggest getting the upper assembly complete from Rock River Arms. Their upper pistol assemblies are marked "Pistol Only". When buying an AR-15 lower for your pistol build make sure it is designated as "Handgun" on the 4473 paperwork and ask for a copy of the 4473 to be on the safe side.


    Link:http://www.atf.gov/forms/download/atf-f-4473-1.pdf See Section B, question 18.

    If you have any questions about building an AR-15 pistol please PM me.
    “The Constitution shall never be construed... to prevent the People of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms.” -- Samuel Adams

    “Today, we need a nation of Minutemen. Citizens who are not only prepared to take arms, but citizens who regard the preservation of freedom as the basic purpose of their daily life and who are willing to consciously work and sacrifice for that freedom.”

    —John F. Kennedy

  11. #11
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    NY
    Posts
    145
    Last edited by nevinsb; 11-13-2011 at 11:32 AM.

  12. #12
    Founder's Club Member thebigsd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Quarryville, PA
    Posts
    3,543
    Quote Originally Posted by Peacekeeper View Post
    Don't put a grip on it ... that would make it an SBR under NFA rules.
    One option for a grip is the Magpul AFG. This has been approved for use on AR-15 pistols.
    "When seconds count between living or dying, the police are only minutes away."

  13. #13
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Fond du Lac Wisconsin
    Posts
    171
    Quote Originally Posted by thebigsd View Post
    One option for a grip is the Magpul AFG. This has been approved for use on AR-15 pistols.
    Interesting piece of gear ... thanks!

  14. #14
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    , Wisconsin, USA
    Posts
    524
    Quote Originally Posted by Peacekeeper View Post
    Don't put a grip on it ... that would make it an SBR under NFA rules.
    AOW, actually (and there is some controversy over that - one federal court has ruled that adding a grip to a pistol doesn't make it an AOW because it was originally designed (as a pistol) to be fired with one hand). The proverbial jury is still out on whether this is valid or not.

    SBR would apply if you put a shoulder stock on it.

  15. #15
    Regular Member Interceptor_Knight's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Green Bay, Wisconsin, USA
    Posts
    2,839
    Quote Originally Posted by Grant Guess View Post
    Technically, you may have a weapon registered as a pistol with a barrel less than 16". Contenders, XP100's, Savage Strykers and similar would apply.

    It becomes kind of sticky with an AR lower if it was originally registered as a rifle.
    There is no registration in WI, there is only a transfer from a FFL to a non-FFL.
    To avoid a felony according to the letter of the law, if it was originally assembled with a shoulder stock on it, it is forever a rifle or a SBR. If it was originally assembled as a handgun, you are free to put a 16" barrel and a stock on it and then switch back to a handgun configuration as many times as you wish so long as it never has a stock and a less than 16" barrel assembled at the same time. In other words, if you have a bare lower, since it was transferred as a receiver, "other" you simply have to make it a handgun first. For T/C rifles you may never make them a handgun but for T/C handguns you may switch back and forth.
    The potential advantage of having it transferred as a handgun whether it is an AR or a T/C is that you have the paperwork stating such.

  16. #16
    Regular Member AaronS's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Milwaukee, Wisconsin, USA
    Posts
    1,497
    All this talk about an SBR sure does make me want the permit for one...
    Any idea what the price for the permit is?

  17. #17
    Regular Member Interceptor_Knight's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Green Bay, Wisconsin, USA
    Posts
    2,839
    Quote Originally Posted by AaronS View Post
    All this talk about an SBR sure does make me want the permit for one...
    Any idea what the price for the permit is?
    NFA Tax Stamps are $200.

  18. #18
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    , Wisconsin, USA
    Posts
    524
    Quote Originally Posted by AaronS View Post
    All this talk about an SBR sure does make me want the permit for one...
    Any idea what the price for the permit is?
    There is no "permit" to have them.

    You simply have to pay the $200 transfer tax every time one is bought or sold (and jump through the other paperwork/fingerprint hoops).

    FWIW, an AOW is $200 when created "Dear BATFE, I want to put a foregrip on my AR pistol.", but only $5 to transfer "I want to buy this AR pistol with a vertical foregrip on it."

    Of course, whoever's selling said AOW has probably factored the tax he paid into his selling price. (shrug)

    Oh. And you'll probably wait nearly the statutory maximum (or longer) for processing, whether it's the 1st or 1001st NFA transfer you make.
    Last edited by Teej; 11-13-2011 at 03:39 PM.

  19. #19
    Regular Member Resdon111's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Sussex, WI
    Posts
    48
    Quote Originally Posted by AaronS View Post
    If your AR was sold as a pistol, I see no issue with carry. It should also be fine in your car (with permit as of now I guess).
    Not so sure how you would carry it though, but thats just me.

    If I had an AR pistol, I might keep it in the car from time to time.
    No way I'd try to carry it. Though I have seen some decent holsters for AR pistols. Purely a gun to stay in the truck.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lurichon
    It's called road hunting; and is shunned by any true hunter...WTF
    Not sure if your comment is in jest or not, so I'll cover the base and say NO WAY! Purely a defensive purpose. I believe that if one is going to fight, they should have something to fight back to. Bruatlity trumped by greater brutality and all that. Besides, I'm a hunter's safety instructor, I know better. :-)
    Last edited by Resdon111; 11-13-2011 at 02:56 PM.
    If an American is to amount to anything he must rely upon himself, and not upon the State - Theodore Roosevelt

    Civilian Sheepdog
    Wisconsin Carry Member

  20. #20
    Regular Member Interceptor_Knight's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Green Bay, Wisconsin, USA
    Posts
    2,839
    Quote Originally Posted by Lurchiron View Post
    It's called road hunting; and is shunned by any true hunter...
    Regarding "true" hunting, so long as you exit your vehicle and shoot at least 50 ft from the road centerline, road hunting is no less legitimate than sitting in a building (hunting stand) with heat, etc in the middle of the woods or on the edge of a field and hoping that a stupid animal happens to wander within the considerable range of your rifle......
    Last edited by Interceptor_Knight; 11-13-2011 at 03:30 PM.

  21. #21
    Regular Member xd40arff's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Wisconsin, United States
    Posts
    133

    Cool

    Personally if it got to the point of having to use your AR pistol, might as well just have an M4. However I am debating an AR Pistol sometime just because, but the old adage is that your pistol is just to fight your way to your long gun.

    http://www.palmettostatearmory.com/8802.php

  22. #22
    Regular Member Resdon111's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Sussex, WI
    Posts
    48
    Quote Originally Posted by xd40arff View Post
    Personally if it got to the point of having to use your AR pistol, might as well just have an M4. However I am debating an AR Pistol sometime just because, but the old adage is that your pistol is just to fight your way to your long gun.

    http://www.palmettostatearmory.com/8802.php
    True, but the AR pistol is a long gun in disguise anyways. That, and the fact that if someone decides to break into my truck I'd rather lose a $700 dollar AR pistol (which may not be taken in the first place given that I can mount it out of sight more easily) than my Rock River worth a couple thousand with its goodies.
    If an American is to amount to anything he must rely upon himself, and not upon the State - Theodore Roosevelt

    Civilian Sheepdog
    Wisconsin Carry Member

  23. #23
    Michigan Moderator DrTodd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Hudsonville , Michigan, USA
    Posts
    3,337
    I avoid the problem by using my .44 mag Redhawk for deer. I'd hate to have to shoot someone with it though, the round would most likely travel right through a person's body.

    As an unrelated side note: Michigan also considers any firearm with a barrel less than 30 inches a "pistol" and is covered by our concealed pistol license (and your Wisconsin license, while in Michigan).
    Last edited by DrTodd; 11-14-2011 at 11:28 PM.
    Giving up our liberties for safety is the one sure way to let the violent among us win.

    "Though defensive violence will always be a 'sad necessity' in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men." -Saint Augustine

    Disclaimer – I am not a lawyer! Please do not consider anything you read from me to be legal advice.

  24. #24
    Regular Member RR_Broccoli's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    WI
    Posts
    172
    Quote Originally Posted by Grant Guess View Post
    Technically, you may have a weapon registered as a pistol with a barrel less than 16". Contenders, XP100's, Savage Strykers and similar would apply.

    It becomes kind of sticky with an AR lower if it was originally registered as a rifle.
    I believe that would cause it to be an SBR and never could be a Pistol. The "Pistol" part is the lower. Put a stock on it, and you need the SBR paperwork. Put a vertical grip on it, and you need the SBR paperwork. Buy it as a rifle, and if you put a short enough barrel on it, you need SBR paperwork.

    It's important to know what you are doing when you skirt up close to the envelope on the ATF rules. There is a second set related to WI laws to contend with as well.

    I don't think I would modify what I got from a local dealer at all, just to be on the safe side.
    "I can only be held responsible for my own stupidity." - Captain Nemo

  25. #25
    Regular Member Lurchiron's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Shawano,WI.
    Posts
    1,011
    Quote Originally Posted by DrTodd View Post
    I avoid the problem by using my .44 mag Redhawk for deer. I'd hate to have to shoot someone with it though, the round would most likely travel right through a person's body.

    As an unrelated side note: Michigan also considers any firearm with a barrel less than 30 inches a "pistol" and is covered by our concealed pistol license (and your Wisconsin license, while in Michigan).
    Holy Goose gun Batman...that's a wee bit of leather to holster up with.
    Bale da Hay

    "Have you Spanked a leftist today; it's the Right thing to do!!!"


    Within the gates before a man shall go,
    (Fully warily let him watch,)
    Full long let him look about him;
    For little he knows where a foe may lurk,
    And sit in the seats within.

    Havamal (Bellows translation)

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •