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Thread: ND: Man shoots self to death in Spotsy grocery store parking lot

  1. #1
    Founder's Club Member Skeptic's Avatar
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    ND: Man shoots self to death in Spotsy grocery store parking lot

    http://www.wtvr.com/news/wtvr-father...0,314000.story


    They dont know if he was OC or pocket carry at the moment. Not sure if it was in a holster or not, sounds like maybe not from what the LEOs are saying, so maybe then not OC. In any case sounds like a negligent discharge - and in front of his kids


    SPOTSYLVANIA COUNTY, VA (WTVR) - A father accidentally shot and killed himself at the grocery store Sunday evening, according to the Spotsylvania County Sheriff's Office.

    The father, a 45-year-old Spotsylvania man, was in his minivan with his children waiting for his wife to return a DVD to the Redbox outside the Giant Food Store in Harrison Crossing when he was shot, said Captain Elizabeth Scott with the Spotsylvania County Sheriff's Office.

    The wife said she heard a pop and when she ran back to the minivan, her husband told her he thought he'd shot himself, said Capt. Scott.

    When a Spotsylania County Sheriff's Deputy arrived on scene minutes after the shooting, the man's wife and others in the Giant parking lot were trying to revive the man.
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    The deputy reported the man suffered significant blood loss and was already unconscious when he arrived. The man was later pronounced dead at Mary Washington Hospital, said Capt. Scott.

    She said the initial investigation indicated when the man tried to unbuckle his seat belt, he hit the trigger of his .40 caliber glock and shot himself in the hip.

    It is unclear whether the man carried his gun in a holster or his pocket. It has also not been determined whether the man was a licensed gun owner, however his wife indicated to investigators she knew he carried a weapon with him from time to time, said Capt. Scott.

    "If you're going to carry a concealed weapon, put it in a reputable holster," Capt. Scott said when asked about general gun safety tips.

    The Spotsylvania County Sheriff's Department is continuing to investigate the shooting to determine whether there are any signs of foul play.
    Last edited by Skeptic; 11-14-2011 at 09:31 AM. Reason: Not sure whether open carry or concealed, also to add ND to title

  2. #2
    Regular Member ocholsteroc's Avatar
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    he hit the trigger of his .40 caliber glock and shot himself in the hip.
    Well thats sad, he must have hit the femoral artery.
    How come a DUI you can get your driver licence back, which it is a privilege. But if commiting a felon, even something non violent like stealing, you are denied your constitutional rights for the rest of your life?
    If you don't support the Second Amendment to the Constitution, what other parts of the Constitution do you reject?
    More restrictions on guns? how about restrictions on chainsaws and knives?

  3. #3
    Regular Member MilProGuy's Avatar
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    It is tragic, indeed...especially so because this traumatic episode happened in front of his children.
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    From the article:
    It is unclear whether the man carried his gun in a holster or his pocket. It has also not been determined whether the man was a licensed gun owner, however his wife indicated to investigators she knew he carried a weapon with him from time to time, said Capt. Scott.
    I guarantee that he wasn't a licensed gun owner, at least not in Virginia.

    We all know that a licensed gun owner would never do something like that, right?
    Alma 43:47 - "And again, the Lord has said that: Ye shall defend your families even unto bloodshed...."
    Self defense isn't just a good idea, it's a commandment.

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    Regular Member MilProGuy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by grylnsmn View Post
    From the article:I guarantee that he wasn't a licensed gun owner, at least not in Virginia.

    We all know that a licensed gun owner would never do something like that, right?
    Well they might if they owned a Glock.
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    Regular Member wylde007's Avatar
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    Unhappy

    Quote Originally Posted by MilProGuy View Post
    Well they might if they owned a Glock.
    Respectfully, I resent the implication of that statement.

    Of course, if his firearm had been properly holstered/secured there is no reasonable way in heck he would have shot himself.

    Since it indicates he accidentally "pulled the trigger" rather than potentially released the safety and somehow (how, exactly) forced the hammer, it doesn't sound like the weapon was properly anything.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MilProGuy View Post
    Well they might if they owned a Glock.
    Nope. Because there's no such thing as a Virginia licensed gun owner, there is no possible way that they could ever shoot themselves by accident.
    Alma 43:47 - "And again, the Lord has said that: Ye shall defend your families even unto bloodshed...."
    Self defense isn't just a good idea, it's a commandment.

  8. #8
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Saw that this morning, and I agree, the question that needs to be answered is how was he carrying it.

    Updated article here.

    TFred

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    Regular Member Walt_Kowalski's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MilProGuy View Post
    Well they might if they owned a Glock.
    If it was a glock, we would be reading about an explosion, not an ND.
    "The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good"
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    Regular Member DocWalker's Avatar
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    It sounds like he pulled a Pelaxico Burris and shot himself while have a unholstered gun in his pants. If in a proper holster the trigger should be protected from being pulled. Glocks also have a weak safety system and are prone to more accidents like this is carried in a unapproved reckless manner. Loaded unholstered in a pocket where the trigger can be pulled back is asking for the discount vasectomy.

  11. #11
    Regular Member Steeler-gal's Avatar
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    better muscle memory

    She said the initial investigation indicated when the man tried to unbuckle his seat belt, he hit the trigger of his .40 caliber glock and shot himself in the hip.
    All the more reason to practice the fine motor skill of not curling that index finger around the trigger until ready to pull the trigger.

  12. #12
    Founder's Club Member - Moderator ed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DocWalker View Post
    It sounds like he pulled a Pelaxico Burris and shot himself while have a unholstered gun in his pants. If in a proper holster the trigger should be protected from being pulled. Glocks also have a weak safety system and are prone to more accidents like this is carried in a unapproved reckless manner. Loaded unholstered in a pocket where the trigger can be pulled back is asking for the discount vasectomy.
    agreed.
    Carry On.

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    thats a shame...
    @ the man who relates a hammer to a glock, i beg to differ
    the only way to bring that striker back to where spring pressure COULD ram it back forward is trigger pull. This is why i use a Blackhawk Serpa holster. It covers the trigger area completely!

  14. #14
    Regular Member ocholsteroc's Avatar
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    Here, look a holster caused AD..

    http://www.itstactical.com/warcom/fi...al-discharges/

    GRAPHIC PICTURE.

    SAFETY WARNING! Worn Leather Holsters Can Cause Accidental Discharges!


    Last edited by ocholsteroc; 11-14-2011 at 03:36 PM.
    How come a DUI you can get your driver licence back, which it is a privilege. But if commiting a felon, even something non violent like stealing, you are denied your constitutional rights for the rest of your life?
    If you don't support the Second Amendment to the Constitution, what other parts of the Constitution do you reject?
    More restrictions on guns? how about restrictions on chainsaws and knives?

  15. #15
    Regular Member MilProGuy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ocholsteroc View Post
    Here, look a holster caused AD..

    http://www.itstactical.com/warcom/fi...al-discharges/

    GRAPHIC PICTURE.

    SAFETY WARNING! Worn Leather Holsters Can Cause Accidental Discharges!



    A most disturbing image, to be sure. This could easily cause a negligent discharge going into one's pocket.
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    Mississippi State Guard ~ Honorably Retired


  16. #16
    Regular Member ProShooter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DocWalker View Post
    Glocks also have a weak safety system and are prone to more accidents like this is carried in a unapproved reckless manner. .
    Cite?

    Glocks have 3 mechanical safeties which are only disengaged together when the trigger is pulled.....just like many, many other guns. A discharge can occur with any gun not carried in a safe manner which protects the trigger guard area.
    Last edited by ProShooter; 11-14-2011 at 04:29 PM.
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    Regular Member DocWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ProShooter View Post
    Cite?

    Glocks have 3 mechanical safeties which are only disengaged together when the trigger is pulled.....just like many, many other guns. A discharge can occur with any gun not carried in a safe manner which protects the trigger guard area.
    Option on the amount of injuries I have seen from self inflicted accidents involving Glocks as opposed to other pistols.

    Pistols that have a thumb safety that you have to flip with your thumb or a web safety in conjuction with the trigger safety. My personnal observation is when a Glock is carried loaded in your pocket without a holster it is much easier to accidentally pull the trigger back than if you had to either flip a safety by the slide or pull the trigger and push the web safety at the same time.

    I have seen more accidental discharges from Glocks than other brands when someone doesn't carry it properly.

  18. #18
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DocWalker View Post
    Option on the amount of injuries I have seen from self inflicted accidents involving Glocks as opposed to other pistols.

    Pistols that have a thumb safety that you have to flip with your thumb or a web safety in conjuction with the trigger safety. My personnal observation is when a Glock is carried loaded in your pocket without a holster it is much easier to accidentally pull the trigger back than if you had to either flip a safety by the slide or pull the trigger and push the web safety at the same time.

    I have seen more accidental discharges from Glocks than other brands when someone doesn't carry it properly.
    You'd need to have total use or ownership numbers for this to be meaningful. A per-capita percentage is the only way you can draw a reasonable conclusion about such things.

    TFred

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    One of the earlier reports, also has the most comments. Most are pretty fair, except "Patrick" a known local anti who seems to love being out-sourced and out-thunk at every turn.

    As we do here, most people seem to be very interested in how he was carrying how that may have contributed to the accident.

    TFred

  20. #20
    Regular Member DocWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TFred View Post
    You'd need to have total use or ownership numbers for this to be meaningful. A per-capita percentage is the only way you can draw a reasonable conclusion about such things.

    TFred
    I would have to do some serious research to come up with some numbers that are not just made up but while I do that you need to get a Tauras, Berretta, Smith and Wesson and put them on safe and try and pull the trigger. Then get a Springfield 45 ACP or another gun with a web safety on the back of the pistol grip and without pushing in the web safety pull the trigger. Then grab a glock and pull the trigger, I bet the only trigger you can pull is the Glock Trigger as the safety is on the trigger.

    I'm niether for or against Glocks, I have just seen more accidental discharge injury's of people carrying Glocks than any other brand. Guess I should have been keeping a log for the last 20 years.

    I do think it is the idiot with the weapon and not the brand of weapon that matters, a Glock in someone that is careful is just as safe as any other brand. What these self inflicted gunshots have in common is they all have an idiot that puts a loaded gun in his pants without a holster to secure it properly.

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    Regular Member 2a4all's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DocWalker View Post
    I would have to do some serious research to come up with some numbers that are not just made up but while I do that you need to get a Tauras, Berretta, Smith and Wesson and put them on safe and try and pull the trigger. Then get a Springfield 45 ACP or another gun with a web safety on the back of the pistol grip and without pushing in the web safety pull the trigger. Then grab a glock and pull the trigger, I bet the only trigger you can pull is the Glock Trigger as the safety is on the trigger.

    I'm niether for or against Glocks, I have just seen more accidental discharge injury's of people carrying Glocks than any other brand. Guess I should have been keeping a log for the last 20 years.

    I do think it is the idiot with the weapon and not the brand of weapon that matters, a Glock in someone that is careful is just as safe as any other brand. What these self inflicted gunshots have in common is they all have an idiot that puts a loaded gun in his pants without a holster to secure it properly.
    I carry a S&W M&P40c, which has no safety (like a Glock), with one in the chamber. I carry it cross-draw (lefty, so it's on my right hip) in a fitted 3-slot belt holster which covers the trigger. The only time the pistol leaves the holster is to fire it or clean it. Otherwise, it stays in the holster 24/7. I've heard that the guy who designed the trigger used to work for Glock.
    A law-abiding citizen should be able to carry his personal protection firearm anywhere that an armed criminal might go.

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  22. #22
    Regular Member MSC 45ACP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DocWalker View Post
    Option on the amount of injuries I have seen from self inflicted accidents involving Glocks as opposed to other pistols.

    Pistols that have a thumb safety that you have to flip with your thumb or a web safety in conjuction with the trigger safety. My personnal observation is when a Glock is carried loaded in your pocket without a holster it is much easier to accidentally pull the trigger back than if you had to either flip a safety by the slide or pull the trigger and push the web safety at the same time.

    I have seen more accidental discharges from Glocks than other brands when someone doesn't carry it properly.
    Please, Please PLEASE... It is almost NEVER an ACCIDENTAL discharge... Negligent Discharge (ND) is usually the most accurate term.
    After 25 years as a small arms instructor, I can STILL count the number of "accidental" discharges
    (legitimate malfunction of the weapon or the ammunition, NOT caused by negligent maintenance or improper cleaning of the firearm) on one hand.
    Yes.... Less than FIVE.

    I don't think this would have happened if he had been carrying it in a decent holster in good condition. I have great faith in my SERPA holsters, even though I've heard some "stories" about them, too. If you look hard enough, you can always find "dirt" on something on the Internet.

    A Glock is no less safe than a revolver. You pull the trigger, expect the gun to go "boom".
    Smith & Wesson: The Original "point and click" interface!
    Glocks don't just fire by themselves. It still takes a deliberate pull of the trigger to make them fire. We all know this.

    Unfortunately, this Darwin Award Winner's family may become the newest members of the Brady Bunch. :-(
    Last edited by MSC 45ACP; 11-14-2011 at 06:10 PM.
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  23. #23
    Regular Member coondog22554's Avatar
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    Cool

    Quote Originally Posted by DocWalker View Post
    I would have to do some serious research to come up with some numbers that are not just made up but while I do that you need to get a Tauras, Berretta, Smith and Wesson and put them on safe and try and pull the trigger. Then get a Springfield 45 ACP or another gun with a web safety on the back of the pistol grip and without pushing in the web safety pull the trigger. Then grab a glock and pull the trigger, I bet the only trigger you can pull is the Glock Trigger as the safety is on the trigger.

    I'm niether for or against Glocks, I have just seen more accidental discharge injury's of people carrying Glocks than any other brand. Guess I should have been keeping a log for the last 20 years.

    I do think it is the idiot with the weapon and not the brand of weapon that matters, a Glock in someone that is careful is just as safe as any other brand. What these self inflicted gunshots have in common is they all have an idiot that puts a loaded gun in his pants without a holster to secure it properly.
    I can see the ad campaign now...

    GLOCK The official handgun of Mensa!

    I feel smarter already.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by DocWalker View Post
    I have seen more accidental discharges from Glocks than other brands when someone doesn't carry it properly.
    I'm sure that has nothing to do with the popularity of Glocks vs. other brands, huh?

  25. #25
    Founder's Club Member thebigsd's Avatar
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    Unfortunately, this is a sad incident that was completely avoidable. I don't own any Glocks but from my knowledge of them, they are reliable and safe guns. His gun should have been in a good holster and not in his waistband. My thoughts are with his family.
    "When seconds count between living or dying, the police are only minutes away."

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