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Thread: this is on mcrgo

  1. #1
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    this is on mcrgo

    hey this is on there web site, i dont think this is true is it..


    When you see a "No-Guns" signs on a retail store, restaurant, bank, credit union or taxpayer funded business, please let us know so we can warn others to shop or go elsewhere while armed. If you knowingly ignore their posting you are guilty of criminal trespass.


    if so could one please site the mcl for me.


    http://www.mcrgo.org/mcrgo/d_no_gun_signs.asp

  2. #2
    Founder's Club Member thebigsd's Avatar
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    It appears accurate.

    750.552 Trespass upon lands or premises of another; violation; penalty.
    Sec. 552.

    (1) A person shall not do any of the following:

    (a) Enter the lands or premises of another without lawful authority after having been forbidden so to do by the owner or occupant or the agent of the owner or occupant.

    (b) Remain without lawful authority on the land or premises of another after being notified to depart by the owner or occupant or the agent of the owner or occupant.

    (c) Enter or remain without lawful authority on fenced or posted farm property of another person without the consent of the owner or his or her lessee or agent. A request to leave the premises is not a necessary element for a violation of this subdivision. This subdivision does not apply to a person who is in the process of attempting, by the most direct route, to contact the owner or his or her lessee or agent to request consent.

    (2) A person who violates subsection (1) is guilty of a misdemeanor punishable by imprisonment in the county jail for not more than 30 days or by a fine of not more than $250.00, or both.


    History: Add. 1951, Act 102, Imd. Eff. May 31, 1951 ;-- Am. 2007, Act 167, Eff. Mar. 20, 2008

    http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(5kj...me=mcl-750-552
    Last edited by thebigsd; 11-14-2011 at 05:51 PM.
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  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by thebigsd View Post
    It appears accurate.

    750.552 Trespass upon lands or premises of another; violation; penalty.
    Sec. 552.

    (1) A person shall not do any of the following:

    (a) Enter the lands or premises of another without lawful authority after having been forbidden so to do by the owner or occupant or the agent of the owner or occupant.

    (b) Remain without lawful authority on the land or premises of another after being notified to depart by the owner or occupant or the agent of the owner or occupant.

    (c) Enter or remain without lawful authority on fenced or posted farm property of another person without the consent of the owner or his or her lessee or agent. A request to leave the premises is not a necessary element for a violation of this subdivision. This subdivision does not apply to a person who is in the process of attempting, by the most direct route, to contact the owner or his or her lessee or agent to request consent.

    (2) A person who violates subsection (1) is guilty of a misdemeanor punishable by imprisonment in the county jail for not more than 30 days or by a fine of not more than $250.00, or both.


    History: Add. 1951, Act 102, Imd. Eff. May 31, 1951 ;-- Am. 2007, Act 167, Eff. Mar. 20, 2008

    http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(5kj...me=mcl-750-552
    yes but from reading that i must be told.. a sign from what i understand holds no weight.. what if i cant read..... or just dont see the sign..

  4. #4
    Regular Member xmanhockey7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rvd4now View Post
    yes but from reading that i must be told.. a sign from what i understand holds no weight.. what if i cant read..... or just dont see the sign..
    That's part of the argument is whether or not the sign is them telling you you can't come in because you're carrying. I do not believe we have any case law on this.
    "No state shall convert a liberty to a privilege, license it, and charge a fee therefor.- Murdock vs Pennsylvania 319 US 105

    ...If the state converts a right into a privelege, the citizen can ignore the license and fee and engage in the right... with impunity.
    - Shuttleworth vs City of Birmingham, Alabama 317 US 262

    Where rights secured by the Constitution are involved, there can be no legislation which would abrogate them.
    - Miranda vs Arizona 384 US 436

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by xmanhockey7 View Post
    That's part of the argument is whether or not the sign is them telling you you can't come in because you're carrying. I do not believe we have any case law on this.
    i have a hard time reading so i often walk pass these signs .. dame detroit public schools..

  6. #6
    Michigan Moderator DrTodd's Avatar
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    My thought is this: if you mention that you saw the sign, but decided to ignore it, then you would have just admitted that you were notified. Unless you specifically admitted that you saw the sign, the officer would have a hard time "proving" that you had been asked not to enter with a firearm.
    There is an opinion (unpublished) that actually states that:
    "Defendant was not told to depart from the premises, and inasmuch as the lot was open to the general public, the “No Trespassing” signs were inadequate to inform defendant that he was forbidden to enter the parking lot. Accordingly, the officers did not have probable cause to arrest defendant for trespassing" Whether this would apply to a "No Guns" sign in a public building, I really don't know.

    People v Clay, 1997
    http://coa.courts.mi.gov/DOCUMENTS/O...183101.OPN.PDF
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrTodd View Post
    My thought is this: if you mention that you saw the sign, but decided to ignore it, then you would have just admitted that you were notified. Unless you specifically admitted that you saw the sign, the officer would have a hard time "proving" that you had been asked not to enter with a firearm.
    There is an opinion (unpublished) that actually states that:
    "Defendant was not told to depart from the premises, and inasmuch as the lot was open to the general public, the “No Trespassing” signs were inadequate to inform defendant that he was forbidden to enter the parking lot. Accordingly, the officers did not have probable cause to arrest defendant for trespassing" Whether this would apply to a "No Guns" sign in a public building, I really don't know.

    People v Clay, 1997
    http://coa.courts.mi.gov/DOCUMENTS/O...183101.OPN.PDF
    im sry i cant read.... lol

  8. #8
    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    "Knowingly" is the keyword -- if you didn't see the sign *shrugs*, you didn't know.
    Last edited by TheQ; 11-14-2011 at 08:16 PM.
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by thebigsd View Post
    It appears accurate.

    750.552 Trespass upon lands or premises of another; violation; penalty.
    Sec. 552.

    (1) A person shall not do any of the following:

    (a) Enter the lands or premises of another without lawful authority after having been forbidden so to do by the owner or occupant or the agent of the owner or occupant.

    (b) Remain without lawful authority on the land or premises of another after being notified to depart by the owner or occupant or the agent of the owner or occupant.

    (c) Enter or remain without lawful authority on fenced or posted farm property of another person without the consent of the owner or his or her lessee or agent. A request to leave the premises is not a necessary element for a violation of this subdivision. This subdivision does not apply to a person who is in the process of attempting, by the most direct route, to contact the owner or his or her lessee or agent to request consent.

    (2) A person who violates subsection (1) is guilty of a misdemeanor punishable by imprisonment in the county jail for not more than 30 days or by a fine of not more than $250.00, or both.


    History: Add. 1951, Act 102, Imd. Eff. May 31, 1951 ;-- Am. 2007, Act 167, Eff. Mar. 20, 2008

    http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(5kj...me=mcl-750-552
    I assume that you are referring to Section C regarding signage being adequate, Section C however only refers to farm property, so if it is not a farm it doesn't apply, actually since only that section even mentions signs, and does so only to say that they are sufficient, you could make the argument the argument that they must not be sufficient in Sections A, and B, as C had to actually mention it, so Sections A, and B then would require an actual request to leave.

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