PistolPackingMomma
Regular Member
Thanks for the explanation.
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HR 822 discussion-House rules committee.Reciprocity.
- Thread starter Haman J.T.
- Start date
Thanks for the explanation.
detroit_fan
Regular Member
You don't have MI CPL?
xmanhockey7
Regular Member
- Joined
- Jun 15, 2010
- Messages
- 1,195
Nope, the state of Michigan thinks I am too young to be able to responsibly carry a concealed pistol (I'm 19). The state of Maine and North Dakota didn't see a problem though, both issued me non-resident permits. I will be taking my gun with me to Indiana this weekend since they recognize all carry permits.
TheQ
Regular Member
You do know:
1. HR-822 will never pass the Senate and then get signed into law.
2. Even if 1 happens, it still won't make your Maine or ND permits valid for use in MI (unless you move out of state).
detroit_fan
Regular Member
I hear it may pass the senate if they can attach it to a larger bill, but no way obummer signs it.
xmanhockey7
Regular Member
- Joined
- Jun 15, 2010
- Messages
- 1,195
1. Never say never (buy you're probably right).
2. I realize that. I was talking about being able to carry in Ohio since I go there so much for work.
B
Bikenut
Guest
Seen posted on MGO...
From GOA:
Concealed Carry Reciprocity Bill
Passes House
Troubling Amendment Added
The House passed national concealed carry reciprocity legislation on Wednesday evening by a vote of 272-154.
The bill, H.R. 822, is intended to allow persons who hold a concealed carry permit from one state to also carry anywhere in the country, with the exception of Illinois and Washington, D.C.
Though the bill passed by a wide margin, it was not without controversy on the pro-gun side of the debate. In previous alerts, GOA has pointed out several flaws in the legislation:
It forces Vermont residents (who do not need a permit to carry) to either obtain an out-of-state permit or to push their state to pass a more restrictive concealed carry law than it now enjoys;
By requiring permits for reciprocity, the bill undermines efforts at the state level to pass constitutional carry (i.e., Vermont-style carry);
In restrictive “may issue” states, the bill allows for non-residents to carry firearms in the state while most residents would still be prohibited, and;
The bill is yet another example of Congress distorting of the Constitution’s Commerce Clause.
Representative Justin Amash (R-MI), who voted against the bill, addressed this last point in a statement, calling H.R. 822 “an unconstitutional bill that improperly applies the Commerce Clause to concealed carry licensing.”
Another freshman Representative, Rob Woodall (R-GA), noted that the right to carry a concealed firearm is already protected by the Second Amendment.
“If the Second Amendment protects my rights to carry my concealed weapon from state to state to state, I don’t need another federal law,” Rep. Woodall said. He went on to remind his colleagues of the original intent of the right to keep and bear arms.
“I don’t believe the Second Amendment was put in the Bill of Rights to allow me to shoot targets [or] hunt for deer and turkey. I think the Second Amendment was put in the Bill of Rights so that I could defend my freedom against an overbearing federal government.”
Anti-gun Amendment Passes
One extremely troubling amendment to the bill was slipped in on a voice vote. Sponsored by Republican David Reichert (“C” rated by GOA), the amendment instructs the Government Accounting Office to:
“Conduct a study of the ability of State and local law enforcement authorities to verify the validity of licenses or permits, issued by other States, to carry a concealed firearm.”
Nowhere in the Constitution is there even a hint of authority for the federal government to “study” the exercising of a right. Even worse, you can be sure that anti-gunners will use any excuse, including this study, to push for some type of national carry license.
The bill now heads to the Senate, where GOA is already working with key Senators to address ALL of the problems with the bill. GOA is also working with Rep. Paul Broun (R-GA) on legislation, H.R. 2900, that takes a constitutional approach to concealed carry recognition.
Oh yeah... this infringement on the right to bear arms intentionally deceptively referred to by the NRA as the "Right to Carry" bill that so many people thought would be a good thing just because it makes it more convenient to carry their concealed gun across state lines.... is supposed to be such a great thing.
Oh no... we are told ... the Feds won't use it to put a choke hold on gun rights.... but there is already an amendment on the House version stuck in at the last minute that gives the Feds a toe hold.
And now it goes on to the Senate where another amendment will be snuck in at the last minute that changes that toe hold to a strangle hold.
And Obama will cheerfully sign it happy that his "under the radar" gun control plan that depended on the selfishness and shortsightedness of gun owners themselves....... worked so very well.
I am always astonished to discover just how often many CC permit holders will toss the right to bear arms under the bus to further their own agenda of protecting those damn permits.
From GOA:
Concealed Carry Reciprocity Bill
Passes House
Troubling Amendment Added
The House passed national concealed carry reciprocity legislation on Wednesday evening by a vote of 272-154.
The bill, H.R. 822, is intended to allow persons who hold a concealed carry permit from one state to also carry anywhere in the country, with the exception of Illinois and Washington, D.C.
Though the bill passed by a wide margin, it was not without controversy on the pro-gun side of the debate. In previous alerts, GOA has pointed out several flaws in the legislation:
It forces Vermont residents (who do not need a permit to carry) to either obtain an out-of-state permit or to push their state to pass a more restrictive concealed carry law than it now enjoys;
By requiring permits for reciprocity, the bill undermines efforts at the state level to pass constitutional carry (i.e., Vermont-style carry);
In restrictive “may issue” states, the bill allows for non-residents to carry firearms in the state while most residents would still be prohibited, and;
The bill is yet another example of Congress distorting of the Constitution’s Commerce Clause.
Representative Justin Amash (R-MI), who voted against the bill, addressed this last point in a statement, calling H.R. 822 “an unconstitutional bill that improperly applies the Commerce Clause to concealed carry licensing.”
Another freshman Representative, Rob Woodall (R-GA), noted that the right to carry a concealed firearm is already protected by the Second Amendment.
“If the Second Amendment protects my rights to carry my concealed weapon from state to state to state, I don’t need another federal law,” Rep. Woodall said. He went on to remind his colleagues of the original intent of the right to keep and bear arms.
“I don’t believe the Second Amendment was put in the Bill of Rights to allow me to shoot targets [or] hunt for deer and turkey. I think the Second Amendment was put in the Bill of Rights so that I could defend my freedom against an overbearing federal government.”
Anti-gun Amendment Passes
One extremely troubling amendment to the bill was slipped in on a voice vote. Sponsored by Republican David Reichert (“C” rated by GOA), the amendment instructs the Government Accounting Office to:
“Conduct a study of the ability of State and local law enforcement authorities to verify the validity of licenses or permits, issued by other States, to carry a concealed firearm.”
Nowhere in the Constitution is there even a hint of authority for the federal government to “study” the exercising of a right. Even worse, you can be sure that anti-gunners will use any excuse, including this study, to push for some type of national carry license.
The bill now heads to the Senate, where GOA is already working with key Senators to address ALL of the problems with the bill. GOA is also working with Rep. Paul Broun (R-GA) on legislation, H.R. 2900, that takes a constitutional approach to concealed carry recognition.
Oh yeah... this infringement on the right to bear arms intentionally deceptively referred to by the NRA as the "Right to Carry" bill that so many people thought would be a good thing just because it makes it more convenient to carry their concealed gun across state lines.... is supposed to be such a great thing.
Oh no... we are told ... the Feds won't use it to put a choke hold on gun rights.... but there is already an amendment on the House version stuck in at the last minute that gives the Feds a toe hold.
And now it goes on to the Senate where another amendment will be snuck in at the last minute that changes that toe hold to a strangle hold.
And Obama will cheerfully sign it happy that his "under the radar" gun control plan that depended on the selfishness and shortsightedness of gun owners themselves....... worked so very well.
I am always astonished to discover just how often many CC permit holders will toss the right to bear arms under the bus to further their own agenda of protecting those damn permits.
Last edited by a moderator:
fozzy71
Regular Member
link?
B
Bikenut
Guest
Requested link to post on MGO I mentioned above.............. see post #27
http://www.migunowners.org/forum/showthread.php?p=1437713#post1437713
Last edited by a moderator:
mrjam2jab
Regular Member
VT = As it is now VT residents must obtain OOS permits to carry in other states. No change.
ConCarry - It in no way affects a State's ability to decided to go ConCarry. The last 3 states to go that way left in the option to obtain a permit for reciprocity purposes.
Last minute - That amendment was added before the bill ever left the Judiciary Committee....not exactly last minute.
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TheQ
Regular Member
U.S. Rep. Justin Amash and the National Rifle Association are at odds over legislation that just passed the U.S. House allowing those holding a concealed pistol license in their state to legally carry a concealed pistol in another state that allows the practice.
Mr. Amash (R-Kentwood) was one of only a handful of Republicans to oppose the legislation.
Mr. Amash, in a posting on his Facebook page, said he voted against the bill because it "unconstitutionally gives Eric Holder and the federal government expansive new powers to regulate and gradually restrict gun rights," referring to the U.S. attorney general.
"Gun rights advocates have fought hard to prevent liberal abuse of the Commerce Clause that would restrict gun rights," Mr. Amash wrote. "As an Endowment Life Member of the NRA and a Representative of individuals who believe deeply in the right to keep and bear arms, I am disappointed that the NRA has decided to put its own interests ahead of the interests of gun owners. Fortunately, many other gun rights groups rightly oppose H R 822."
But the NRA accused Mr. Amash of lying about the issue, saying he had vowed to support national right-to-carry reciprocity legislation in its candidate questionnaire. Mr. Amash countered that he does support such legislation, but not if it rests on the Commerce Clause for its authority.
-- From Gongwer News Service, 11/18/2011, "Amash, N.R.A. Open Fire On Each Other"
Mr. Amash (R-Kentwood) was one of only a handful of Republicans to oppose the legislation.
Mr. Amash, in a posting on his Facebook page, said he voted against the bill because it "unconstitutionally gives Eric Holder and the federal government expansive new powers to regulate and gradually restrict gun rights," referring to the U.S. attorney general.
"Gun rights advocates have fought hard to prevent liberal abuse of the Commerce Clause that would restrict gun rights," Mr. Amash wrote. "As an Endowment Life Member of the NRA and a Representative of individuals who believe deeply in the right to keep and bear arms, I am disappointed that the NRA has decided to put its own interests ahead of the interests of gun owners. Fortunately, many other gun rights groups rightly oppose H R 822."
But the NRA accused Mr. Amash of lying about the issue, saying he had vowed to support national right-to-carry reciprocity legislation in its candidate questionnaire. Mr. Amash countered that he does support such legislation, but not if it rests on the Commerce Clause for its authority.
-- From Gongwer News Service, 11/18/2011, "Amash, N.R.A. Open Fire On Each Other"
Jared
Regular Member
I encourage you to educate yourself on the subject, because you seem ignorant of the facts.
The 14th Amendment empowered the Federal Government to enact legislation to support a fundamental right.
HR 822 is by no means perfect; but it has no negative side to it. It is a notwithstanding law, similar to FOPA of 1986.
Obviously the plain text of the second amendment (and the 14th) has not stopped states like New York and Hawaii from infringing on your rights. So wouldn't be nice if congress helped out since Albany and Honolulu don't seem to care about your 2nd amendment rights?
Keith Cromm
Regular Member
.
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Slave
Regular Member
How do you figure? Why would HI and Alaska be immune?
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Slave
Regular Member
Yeah, people keep harping on this like it Vermont is losing anything. They aren't, I wish people would just drop it.
xmanhockey7
Regular Member
- Joined
- Jun 15, 2010
- Messages
- 1,195
Actually it does change things for VT residents. If it passes this bill would allow them to carry in all states except Illinois.
Huh? This would include all 49 states that have concealed carry including Hawaii. No this will not allow someone to carry a plane or give you any more right to.
mrjam2jab
Regular Member
True. The OOS permit they get would permit them to carry in 49 states. That would be a change.
T1mH
Regular Member
Please cite where you are getting this 48 state contiguous thing from.