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Thread: Liberty University amends its weapons policy to allow for licensed (and approved) CC

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    Liberty University amends its weapons policy to allow for licensed (and approved) CC

    Posted from an internal announcement:

    In light of the trend regarding respecting concealed weapons permits on University campuses, Liberty University’s Board of Trustees has amended the campus weapons policy to remove the total ban on firearms. The new policy creates exceptions for University visitors with valid concealed weapons permits to come on campus with their weapons but still prohibits them from having weapons in University facilities. The policy is designed so persons with concealed weapons permits can keep their weapons in their locked cars while visiting campus without violating University policy. Similarly, members of the University community that are over 21 with concealed weapons permits can seek permission from LUPD to carry concealed weapons outside facilities and store them in their locked vehicles. LUPD can also permit certain faculty and staff to have concealed weapons inside buildings and stored in secured containers in their offices. The new weapons policy also outlines a new procedure for members of the University community of any age to store their weapons with LUPD. Applications for permission for concealed carry on campus and for storage should be available from LUPD by December 1, 2011. No members of the University community have permission to carry a concealed weapon without having their application approved by LUPD on an individual basis.

    Examples of the approximately 70 other institutions permitting students and others to have concealed weapons with state permit and/or campus police permission:

    Colorado

    Colorado State University
    Aims Community College
    Arapahoe Community College
    Colorado Northwestern Community College
    Community College of Aurora
    Community College of Denver
    Front Range Community College
    Lamar Community College
    Morgan Community College
    Northeastern Junior College
    Otero Junior College
    Pikes Peak Community College
    Pueblo Community College
    Red Rocks Community College
    Trinidad State Junior College
    Michigan

    Michigan State University
    Oregon

    University of Oregon
    Oregon State University
    Portland State University
    Eastern Oregon University
    Oregon Health & Science University
    Oregon Institute of Technology
    Southern Oregon University
    Western Oregon University
    Utah

    University of Utah
    Utah State University
    Southern Utah University
    Utah Valley University
    Weber State University
    Dixie State College of Utah
    College of Eastern Utah
    Snow College
    Salt Lake Community College
    Virginia

    University of Virginia
    Blue Ridge Community College

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    Sounds like a start!

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    Regular Member wylde007's Avatar
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    Thumbs down This Thread is Fail.

    Quote Originally Posted by jmelvin View Post
    Sounds like a start!
    Disagree
    Quote Originally Posted by anonLU View Post
    The new policy creates exceptions for University visitors with valid concealed weapons permits to come on campus with their weapons but still prohibits them from having weapons in University facilities.
    This is fundamentally no different than a university policy. They cannot "prevent" people with firearms from bringing them onto campus and leaving them in their vehicles (a poor decision in itself).

    The very inappropriately-named "Liberty" university, like so many other institutions of higher learning in Virginia, just doesn't get it. And they are willing to watch more citizens and students be molested, robbed, raped and murdered in the interest of their security theater.
    The quiet war has begun, with silent weapons
    And the newest slavery is to keep the people poor, and stupid
    Novos ordo seclorum ~ Mustaine

    Never argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

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    Regular Member ocholsteroc's Avatar
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    NC college not VA opps!

    The very inappropriately-named "Liberty" university, like so many other institutions of higher learning in Virginia, just doesn't get it. And they are willing to watch more citizens and students be molested, robbed, raped and murdered in the interest of their security theater.
    +1
    Last edited by ocholsteroc; 11-15-2011 at 06:13 PM.
    How come a DUI you can get your driver licence back, which it is a privilege. But if commiting a felon, even something non violent like stealing, you are denied your constitutional rights for the rest of your life?
    If you don't support the Second Amendment to the Constitution, what other parts of the Constitution do you reject?
    More restrictions on guns? how about restrictions on chainsaws and knives?

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Yes, and having a thorough and comprehensive policy that makes sense for all concerned is a vital step to this working well, both there and elsewhere as time goes on!

    Congratulations to LU!

    TFred

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Folks, this is a huge first step. You simply cannot go from "no weapons" to "any legal weapons" overnight. That is how accidents happen, and people get hurt - all things the antis would love to see.

    It is obvious from this very short description that the folks at LU have thought this out very carefully. If you ever expect to make any progress in this world, you must stop eating your own and give support and credit when and where it is due.

    TFred

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    Regular Member MilProGuy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TFred View Post
    Folks, this is a huge first step. You simply cannot go from "no weapons" to "any legal weapons" overnight. That is how accidents happen, and people get hurt - all things the antis would love to see.

    It is obvious from this very short description that the folks at LU have thought this out very carefully. If you ever expect to make any progress in this world, you must stop eating your own and give support and credit when and where it is due.

    TFred
    I agree with your remarks completely.

    This is a step in the right direction.
    Proud Veteran ~ U.S. Army / Army Reserve

    Mississippi State Guard ~ Honorably Retired


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    Wrong campus

    Quote Originally Posted by ocholsteroc View Post
    Blue Ridge Community College
    http://www.blueridge.edu/shared_documents/security.php



    Does this mean no cars allowed on campus?

    +1
    The URL and policies above are for the NC campus, not Virginia.

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    Regular Member ocholsteroc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VCDL President View Post
    The URL and policies above are for the NC campus, not Virginia.
    Opps, thank you. Didn't see that, I thought blue ridge was only in VA...
    How come a DUI you can get your driver licence back, which it is a privilege. But if commiting a felon, even something non violent like stealing, you are denied your constitutional rights for the rest of your life?
    If you don't support the Second Amendment to the Constitution, what other parts of the Constitution do you reject?
    More restrictions on guns? how about restrictions on chainsaws and knives?

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    Regular Member Repeater's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TFred View Post
    Folks, this is a huge first step.
    TFred
    Well, more accurately, they are taking baby steps. I suppose the old saying of you have to crawl before you can walk might apply to LU. But that's being charitable.

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    Regular Member wylde007's Avatar
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    Unhappy

    Quote Originally Posted by nova View Post
    Liberty University is a private college. They can tell anyone to leave for any reason.
    Apologies. You are correct.

    I still don't see this as a win, or even much of a step.

    Much like my own employers asinine rules, the best course of action would be to remove any mention of firearms from the school policy handbook and let state law prevail.

    But that would just be silly, wouldn't it?
    The quiet war has begun, with silent weapons
    And the newest slavery is to keep the people poor, and stupid
    Novos ordo seclorum ~ Mustaine

    Never argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

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    One of the restrictions that is particularly troubling to me is that for anyone to be able to carry at LU, they must register each and every firearm that they intend to carry with serial number provided to the LUPD, which is a full police department, which I believe functions with Lynchburg PD. This makes absolutely no sense at all to me and only serves as an unnecessary invasion of privacy.
    Last edited by jmelvin; 11-16-2011 at 09:24 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TFred View Post
    Folks, this is a huge first step. You simply cannot go from "no weapons" to "any legal weapons" overnight.
    Why not, are you proposing that there would be widespread bloodshed if they suddenly allowed folks to carry on campus? The only thing that would happen if they changed their policy to allow weapons is that the criminals would no longer be the only ones armed. Think along the lines of the restaurant ban. They removed the restriction and nothing happened.
    "When seconds count between living or dying, the police are only minutes away."

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    Red face

    Quote Originally Posted by thebigsd View Post
    They removed the restriction and nothing happened.
    Much to the chagrin of Lori Haas, Colin Goddard and that Lautner cretin who all swore, alternately, that there would either be blood in the streets or that they would "kick the ass" of anyone who carried in their restaurant.
    The quiet war has begun, with silent weapons
    And the newest slavery is to keep the people poor, and stupid
    Novos ordo seclorum ~ Mustaine

    Never argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thebigsd View Post
    Why not, are you proposing that there would be widespread bloodshed if they suddenly allowed folks to carry on campus? The only thing that would happen if they changed their policy to allow weapons is that the criminals would no longer be the only ones armed. Think along the lines of the restaurant ban. They removed the restriction and nothing happened.
    A college campus is not just a down-sized subset of society at large. It cannot be treated as such.

    There are dozens of reasons. Here's just one I thought of first: Roommates. Unlike "grown-ups" in real life, students often have no control over who they are assigned to room with. What if one is 21, and wants to carry concealed to class and around campus, and the other is a 17 year old freshman. Or what if they are 20, but had some mental health issues? Dorms are notoriously open environments, you don't lock down your room every time you step out for a visit down the hall. How does a student secure their gun in the dorm room? Does the university provide a safe? Is the student required to bring their own, and bolt it to the closet floor?

    Many issues like these need to be hashed out. The LU guidelines are not perfect. But I still say it is a very big first step.

    TFred

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nova View Post
    A university has housing, workplaces, restaurants, health centers, police departments, government, etc. As for dorms, they are 18 and over, and they are adults. If they treated their dorms as one would treat their apartment, then there would be no problem. When I lived in a dorm, even if I was going across the hall to the restroom, I locked my door behind me. At my univ. it's a common thing to read about people having their personal belongings stolen in public areas like student centers, when students step away from their stuff while they use the restroom or get food. Would this same person leave their stuff unattended with strangers elsewhere like a shopping mall or starbucks? Maybe, maybe not. Some people are sheep on and off campus. My point is, universities are no different from any other locality and should be treated as such.
    And with all due respect, my point is that your point is incorrect. Dorms are different, and I would suggest especially dorms at Liberty University. Always have been. Will likely always be, at least I hope so, because if dorms ever do become just a small version of a city as you write, then our society would have pretty much completely broken down into chaos.

    College life has always been a middle ground in between constant supervision and no supervision. Yes, most are adults by legal definition, but many, if not most, are simply not ready for total adult responsibility. This is not an indication of any weakness on the part of the students, they have lived their whole lives knowing that the "final deadline" for growing up is not until college graduation, rather than an arbitrary birthday. And some, who know early on that college is not for them, have made that mental adjustment earlier along the line, and most of them are ready by 18, at least ready enough to give it a try.

    That is why firearms on a college campus is such a difficult concept, from all sides. It's an environment unique to itself, and few of the assumptions we rely on in the real world apply.

    TFred

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nova View Post
    So you're saying the people are different, not the university? If it's the people who are in college are legally adults, but aren't ready for adult responsibility, and can't be trusted to be responsible unsupervised, and don't "grow up" until after they graduate, then people 18 years of age should not be able to vote, serve in the armed forces, purchase firearms, tobacco, get married, have kids, get a job, or drive a car. Yet people can do all of that on their own merit when they're 18.

    Besides that, at my university we have LOTS of people who are well into their 20s and beyond who are coming back to get a higher education. What makes a university such a different place for them? For faculty or staff where it's their workplace? As for dorms, they tend to room people with others of similar ages and class years. 18 year old freshmen with other 18 year old freshmen, upper level/graduates with others of similar level.
    Yes, there are people in college who are not ready for these things. For some of them, that is why they are in college.

    All I'm saying is that a college dorm, and campus is simply not a small version of society at large, and that certain accommodations will need to be made, and those in charge of colleges are going to require such accommodations as a condition for any progress toward allowing firearms to be a part of campus life. That is my opinion. You do not agree. However, since at this time we have only a couple campuses who have agreed to do this, and special accommodations are a part of the decision for at least this one, it would appear that the facts support my view.

    When colleges start rescinding all firearms regulations and policies and agree to abide completely by existing laws alone, then your point will gain validity, and I will be proven wrong.

    Until then, I suppose we will just have to agree to disagree.

    TFred

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    People like whiskey do not all mature at the same rate or to the same quality. My daughter is in college, and for the first two years she lived in a dorm that did not have locking storage. The security of your possessions depended as much on your roommate as yourself.

    I was not comfortable with her being unarmed and away from home. She however would not be willing to do what she needed to when she left home. Currently she lives off campus and has a 38spl in her room. I will feel much better when she turns 21 and has it on her.

    I am pretty sure that my daughter has not been the only person who had not one, but two armed parents in her dorm room. But she was probably the only one with two armed parents and a chihuahua at any given time at her particular university.
    Last edited by tcmech; 11-16-2011 at 10:47 PM. Reason: spelling
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    Buy a Kel-Tec, carry anyway. Without PC/RAS for a search; we all have CC without a permit no matter where we go.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ixtow View Post
    Buy a Kel-Tec, carry anyway. Without PC/RAS for a search; we all have CC without a permit no matter where we go.
    You accidentally deleted the important disclaimer that I know you had in your post. I'll put it in for you.

    This post is for academic research only as no one should consider violating proper Government rules, Regulations or Laws.
    Last edited by peter nap; 11-17-2011 at 08:06 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TFred View Post
    Yes, there are people in college who are not ready for these things. For some of them, that is why they are in college.

    All I'm saying is that a college dorm, and campus is simply not a small version of society at large, and that certain accommodations will need to be made, and those in charge of colleges are going to require such accommodations as a condition for any progress toward allowing firearms to be a part of campus life. That is my opinion. You do not agree. However, since at this time we have only a couple campuses who have agreed to do this, and special accommodations are a part of the decision for at least this one, it would appear that the facts support my view.

    When colleges start rescinding all firearms regulations and policies and agree to abide completely by existing laws alone, then your point will gain validity, and I will be proven wrong.

    Until then, I suppose we will just have to agree to disagree.

    TFred
    This growing list seems to favor Nova's views more than.

    Quote Originally Posted by
    .

    Examples of the approximately 70 other institutions permitting students and others to have concealed weapons with state permit and/or campus police permission:

    Colorado

    Colorado State University
    Aims Community College
    Arapahoe Community College
    Colorado Northwestern Community College
    Community College of Aurora
    Community College of Denver
    Front Range Community College
    Lamar Community College
    Morgan Community College
    Northeastern Junior College
    Otero Junior College
    Pikes Peak Community College
    Pueblo Community College
    Red Rocks Community College
    Trinidad State Junior College
    Michigan

    Michigan State University
    Oregon

    University of Oregon
    Oregon State University
    Portland State University
    Eastern Oregon University
    Oregon Health & Science University
    Oregon Institute of Technology
    Southern Oregon University
    Western Oregon University
    Utah

    University of Utah
    Utah State University
    Southern Utah University
    Utah Valley University
    Weber State University
    Dixie State College of Utah
    College of Eastern Utah
    Snow College
    Salt Lake Community College
    Virginia

    University of Virginia
    Blue Ridge Community College
    If you think like a Statist, act like one, or back some, you've given up on freedom and have gone over to the dark side.
    The easiest ex. but probably the most difficult to grasp for gun owners is that fool permission slip so many of you have, especially if you show it off with pride. You should recognize it as an embarrassment, an infringement, a travesty and an affront to a free person.


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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent19 View Post
    This growing list seems to favor Nova's views more than.
    That depends... do we have copies of the firearms policies for all these schools? Perhaps they are similar to what LU is implementing. Such information would be very helpful.

    TFred

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    Regular Member Marco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TFred View Post
    That depends... do we have copies of the firearms policies for all these schools? Perhaps they are similar to what LU is implementing. Such information would be very helpful.

    TFred

    A 2004 Utah law prohibits universities from enacting policy that “in any way inhibits or restricts the possession or use of firearms, with other states following suit.

    http://concealedcampus.org/
    Last edited by Marco; 11-17-2011 at 12:52 PM.
    If you think like a Statist, act like one, or back some, you've given up on freedom and have gone over to the dark side.
    The easiest ex. but probably the most difficult to grasp for gun owners is that fool permission slip so many of you have, especially if you show it off with pride. You should recognize it as an embarrassment, an infringement, a travesty and an affront to a free person.


    ~Alan Korwin

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