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Thread: Are TSA officers "Law Enforcement"?

  1. #51
    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    Well since we have twisted the original meaning of regulate from "to make regular" to impose restriction upon, you would have a point except that the constitution is a legal restriction on what the government can do, and the 4th amendment applies to is a restriction on the federal government that would apply to commercial truck drivers too in my opinion.
    Excellent point!
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  2. #52
    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PALO View Post
    random stops on COMMERCIAL trucks don't necesarily bother me. it's similar to the fact that law enforcement can conduct random inspections (taps, liquor license, server's license etc.) of a liquor establishment and to obstruct same is a crime
    Why does not LE conduct random 'inspections' of patrons leaving a liquor establishment, with car-keys in their hand?

    commercial vehicles are very highly regulated for good reason. they can cause immensely more damage than (most) private vehicles, and they are engaged in commerce, which has substantially less privacy protections (on a public road) than transport by private persons does and should.
    Yet, far more non-commercial vehicles are involved in accidents than commercial vehicles. Why not hold non-commercial vehicles to the same standards and regulations? It is not about the private person or....what non-private person....er, public person driver guy, it is about the vehicle type. Commerce is commerce.

    How many commercial vehicles involved in accidents on the roads are caused by the driver and how many are due to the driver getting caught up in a accident caused by a four-wheeler?

    granted, in many respects, a truckers cab is his home away from home, but these are safety inspections, and my understanding is they are not searching his sleeping area, they are checking brakes, tire tread, stuff like that.
    Does this apply to in-state only trucking? Does this apply to trucks that haul construction equipment as course of doing business only in their state? Does this apply to a farmer hauling his farm machinery to a remote field? What is the dividing line? Interstate highway travel or all roads within a state? What is deemed commercial and what is not? The license plate type does not denote commercial or non-commercial. 'Accidents' do not differentiate between commercial or non-commercial.

    Granted, when a big truck gets in a wreck, a far worse outcome results, been there done that, dang four-wheelers.

    Why does not LE conduct random inspections of non-commercial vehicles to check brakes, tire tread, stuff like that? Safety inspection sticker you may say? Not all states require them. How can a LEO determine from afar that the safety sticker, if one is required, is current or valid?

    Heck, do I need federal permission to manufacture and sell firearms for use only in Missouri? Can I be held to account for a customer who could possibly 'transport' a Missouri only firearm to another state?
    I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it.

  3. #53
    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    How about a big-rig that is classified as a private vehicle? Looks like a big truck, but is used like a family car. Do these 'drivers' get the same treatment as the J.B. Hunt drivers?

    Been there done that too.
    I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it.

  4. #54
    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    How about a big-rig that is classified as a private vehicle? Looks like a big truck, but is used like a family car. Do these 'drivers' get the same treatment as the J.B. Hunt drivers?

    Been there done that too.
    I've asked that same question of some trucker friends. Supposedly, you are exempt from the commercial trucking BS and stuff, but they said hassles happen. Big surprise.

    After hearing some stories, I get nervous just driving my 1-ton dually pickup in Texas.
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  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by MAC702 View Post
    <snip> After hearing some stories, I get nervous just driving my 1-ton dually pickup in Texas.
    Obviously your dually is not big enough or off the ground enough or both. A bigger truck will alleviate your nervousness.
    I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it.

  6. #56
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    http://dayerses.com/ford-f-550.html

    Some eye candy.

    Mine is similar to the bottom row, fourth from the left, the red one. Though, mine is white.
    I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it.

  7. #57
    Regular Member ncwabbit's Avatar
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    Theoretically, those big rigs marked ‘not for commercial use’ are exempt from DOT oversight. Have a friend who hauls his demo vehicle in his and got stopped and played twenty questions w/DOT trooper. Trooper was going to cite him because he ‘won’ a trophy for his last race and called the trophy compensation. My friend told him to get a supervisor or two out there ASAP. DOT trooper backed down immediately.

    wabbit

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    the "mainstream" media article (and I use the term mainstream VERY lightly) I read stated that state troopers were conducting the safety inspections with assistance from TSA VIPR teams...interesting that the troopers have been doing this for years and all the sudden they need TSA there with them....But they also reported that the TSA VIPR teams were speakig with the driver in an attempt to "recruit" them into the TSA's "see something say something" program.

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Z1P2 View Post
    According to the TSA website, they conducted a two day training excercise in which they accompanied TN SHP officers, but it was TN SHP officers that were doing the stops, so if they ever conduct another such excercise you would have a duty to inform because you would be dealing with a TN SHP officer and not the TSA agents who were just basically doing a ride-along.

    http://blog.tsa.gov/2011/10/myth-bus...etting-up.html

    Regardless, it's better to inform when you don't have the duty to, than to fail to inform when you do have the duty to... or put another way, better safe than sorry.
    Again thats all according to the TSA, and its not like they have ever lied to the people.......taking the word of known and proven liars is not ony STUPID, but could end up being VERY costly in this case.

  10. #60
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    How about this, read and understand your state's statutes and follow them. You will be way ahead of most LEOs regarding knowledge, and some LEOs regarding following.
    I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it.

  11. #61
    Herr Heckler Koch
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    Last edited by Herr Heckler Koch; 03-29-2012 at 01:40 PM.

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    Hoooooold on Theeah boy. Do you know who I am? I am Sheriff Buford T Justice of Texas!!!

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    Regular Member scott58dh's Avatar
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    It Starts At The Top !

    “...just because you have an individual right *[to bear arms, not to be searched unreasonably]* does not mean that the state or local government can't constrain the exercise of that right..."
    Barack Obama, 2008
    Philadelphia primary debate

    The way I look at the issue, it starts at the top, with back room deals, corruption cover ups & *** The Good Ole' Boys Club*** trying to give their power hungry egos a good fix.

    Check out the gunbanobama.com site and hopefully we can give Obama his "time for a change" wish come true this Nov.
    Last edited by scott58dh; 06-23-2012 at 12:58 AM.
    Peace, Carry Safe & Smart

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  14. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by scott58dh View Post
    SNIP...hopefully we can give Obama his "time for a change" wish come true this Nov.
    Reminds me of Ronald Reagan's comment in the 1980 presidential campaign:

    A recession is when your neighbor loses his job.
    A depression is when you lose your job.
    A recovery is when Jimmy Carter loses his.

    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. (Because that is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--for each other and everybody else--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.)

    Equality and consent of the governed: We're all equal. How can another legitimately govern me without my express consent?

  15. #65
    Regular Member Blueslant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    Reminds me of Ronald Reagan's comment in the 1980 presidential campaign:

    A recession is when your neighbor loses his job.
    A depression is when you lose your job.
    A recovery is when Jimmy Carter loses his.

    Slightly before my time but one of my favorite quotes from him. I think this holds true today.


    In regards to sudden valley gunner, I wonder if there is a "consent" given to safety (or terry) stops when applying for or as a condition of holding a CDL in TN. I do not know as it has been several years since I livEd anywhere near there. I'll check into that when I'm not on the phone. Granted t does not really excuse it in my mind, but it may be the justification for ignoring 4a rights with regard to the search of personal space for truckers. I consider anywhere in the cab personal space given the lack of division but that could just be me.

    Please excuse grammar and spelling. My fingers don't relay fit iPhone touch keys well

  16. #66
    Regular Member rapgood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreamer View Post
    Are TSA officers "Law Enforcement"?
    No. You may walk away from them at any time.
    Rev. Robert Apgood, Esq.
    Want to know more about me? Look Here! or here for my vcf.

    A right cannot be lost by exercising it. McDonald v. Chicago, 561 U.S. 3025, 130 S. Ct. 3020, 3021, 177 L. Ed. 2d 894 (2010) (citing Near v. Minn., 283 U.S. 697 (1931)).

    IAAL. Anything I say here is not legal advice. No conversations we may have privately or otherwise in this forum constitute the formation of an attorney-client relationship, and are not intended to do so.

  17. #67
    McX
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    TSA, what does that stand for? Truly Stupid A...................nevermind.

  18. #68
    Regular Member Freedom1Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by McX View Post
    TSA, what does that stand for? Truly Stupid A...................nevermind.
    Agency I think is the word you were looking for
    Provision for free medical attendance and nursing, for clothing, for food, for housing, for the education of children, and a hundred other matters, might with equal propriety be proposed as tending to relieve the employee of mental strain and worry. --- These matters obviously lie outside the orbit of congressional power. (Railroad Retirement Board v Alton Railroad)

  19. #69
    McX
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    time to toss this one in here;

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzE227yE1hk

  20. #70
    Regular Member davidmcbeth's Avatar
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    I just drive by their checkpoints and yell "sorry, american!"

  21. #71
    McX
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    I just drive by their checkpoints and yell "sorry, american!"
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHqUipinDyw

  22. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by ncwabbit View Post
    Theoretically, those big rigs marked ‘not for commercial use’ are exempt from DOT oversight. Have a friend who hauls his demo vehicle in his and got stopped and played twenty questions w/DOT trooper. Trooper was going to cite him because he ‘won’ a trophy for his last race and called the trophy compensation. My friend told him to get a supervisor or two out there ASAP. DOT trooper backed down immediately.

    wabbit
    That goes on occassionaly in the Boise area also. I was just waiting to be pulled over for towing my race car trailer for the same. Was going to go before the Judge and ask if he ever tows his golf cart to a Golf tournament.

    Luckily I was never given the opportunity to be held in contempt.

  23. #73
    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by McX View Post
    time to toss this one in here;

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzE227yE1hk
    I love the top comment, there:


    "My grandparents immigrated from a war-torn Europe with equally dire circumstances (likely worse). They lost their families, homes, and dignity. However, they had the decency to respect the laws of the country that welcomed them."
    Our rights are NOT subject to "interpretation" by well-meaning but Constitutionally illiterate politicians. They are absolute and unwavering, as are We the People. Some rights are mentioned in our Constitution. Many are not. ALL are protected by our Constitution, the Supreme Law of the Land, as specifically noted by the Ninth and Tenth Amendments in our Bill of Rights. If you're incapable of understanding, accepting, and respecting that, you are in the WRONG job, if not the wrong country.

  24. #74
    Regular Member Lasjayhawk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    Well since we have twisted the original meaning of regulate from "to make regular" to impose restriction upon, you would have a point except that the constitution is a legal restriction on what the government can do, and the 4th amendment applies to is a restriction on the federal government that would apply to commercial truck drivers too in my opinion.
    Unless your within 100 miles of the US border, then DHS says no to the 4th. Google constitution free zone.

  25. #75
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lasjayhawk View Post
    Unless your within 100 miles of the US border, then DHS says no to the 4th. Google constitution free zone.
    I live within a 40 miles of the border, and often work right next to the border, I don't care what DHS claim.

    On a side note I saw something new not long ago and couldn't get a picture of it in time but a white SUV marked in large letters Federal Protection Police
    Last edited by sudden valley gunner; 08-03-2012 at 08:18 AM.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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