Are TSA officers "Law Enforcement"?

With the announcements that TSA is now doing checkpoints on public highways in TN, and soon to set them up in other states, this brings up a VERY interesting and potentially deadly situation for people who carry for self defense--OC and CC.

In some states, (Like NC and OH) if you have a CC permit and are CCing, you have a statutory "duty to inform" any time you have an official interaction with an LEO. Most of us know what that means--Highway Patrol, State Police Sheriffs Deputies, local police, etc.

But since most TSA "officers" are purely administrative, and are NOT "sworn LE officers" and DO NOT have the power of arrest, do they qualify as "LEOs" under these state's laws.

Say for instance, you are OCing on your hip, and driving your car. You have a valid NC CHP. And you come up to a TSA "security checkpoint" on a public highway in NC.

Now, if this were a "sobriety checkpoint" being operated by the local Sheriff or the State Police, you have a duty to inform" as soon as you roll down the window and hand the LEO your DL and CHP.

But since TSA does not have the power of arrest, and are not sworn officers, it is arguable that they are NOT LEOs, and therefore not privileged to be "informed" that you are carrying like a real cop would be.

I just wonder what other people think. Let's get this one figured out folks--it's going to become a SERIOUS issue soon, and I'd hate to see an OCDO member get jacked by the TSA for violating a law that doesn't apply or even exist...

Excellent topic, and one that should elicit many responses from our knowledgeable members and, hopefully, at the conclusion of the thread we will all come away as better informed 2A citizens.

According to Wikipedia the types of TSA employees are:

• Transportation Security Officers: known as screeners. They screen people, property and control entry and exit points in airports. They also watch several areas before and beyond checkpoints.

• Federal Air Marshals: A federal law enforcement officer, a FAM blends in with passengers, to detect, deter, and defeat terrorists and other criminals targeting U.S. air carriers, airports, passengers, crew, and when necessary, other transportation modes.

• Transportation Security Inspectors: They inspect, assess, and investigate passenger and cargo transportation systems to see how secure they are.

• National Explosives Detection Canine Teams Program: These trainers prepares dogs and handlers to serve as mobile teams that can quickly find dangerous materials.

• Visible Intermodal Prevention and Response (VIPR) teams : VIPR teams started in 2005 and involved Federal Air Marshals and other TSA crew working outside of the airport environment, at train stations, ports, truck weigh stations, special events, and other places.

So if the TSA worker that accosts you in an unconstitutional VIPR checkpoint on a highway and detains and searches you and your vehicle without probable cause is a Federal Air Marshal, then we WOULD have a "duty to inform".

But if the TSA officer is any other type of TSA employee, then they are not technically "LEOs", and therefore we would have no more duty to inform than with a mall cop or a school-crossing guard, right?

I'm certainly no authority on this, but so it would seem (at least with the little bit of info we have gathered so far).

NO, There is no duty to inform.

So if the TSA worker that accosts you in an unconstitutional VIPR checkpoint on a highway and detains and searches you and your vehicle without probable cause is a Federal Air Marshal, then we WOULD have a "duty to inform".

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NO. This is not a lawful search, Your only duty is to defy.
And if they setup and start attacking people like this in-mass then its an act of war, any able bodied man witnessing such an attack has a duty to fight.

State laws will vary, of course, but just because you have a duty to notify police, doesn't mean the same duty extends to federal agents, even if they're LEOs.

In Texas, there is a duty to hand over your CHL when a peace officer or magistrate demands identification. Federal officers, even LEOs, are never peace officers in Texas, even if they are recognized in state law as special agents. So, there is no duty to inform when dealing with feds.

No they aren't. They call in the airport cops or local cops to do their dirty work, as they have no arrest powers. (Whatsamatter, can't make a citizen's arrest?)


If you see somebody with a gun, that person probably has powers of arrest and is considered "law enforcement." Somebody from the gubbmint, that is.

Yard Sale said:

If you see somebody with a gun, that person probably has powers of arrest and is considered "law enforcement." Somebody from the gubbmint, that is.

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There are almost ONE MILLION armed federal agents within the borders of the US - scrooing Posse Comitatus. Even such as the FDA and EPA have JBTs.

this is a good question. luckily we don't have this issue in Maine. but its along the same lines as "university police"........in order for someone to be a "law enforcement officer" they have to be on payroll for a STATE OR FEDERAL agency to begin with. now if the TSA agent is not armed and is just a screen-er even though they are a federal employee they are not a LEO. unless otherwise describe in their job description. just like a lot of university cops are NOT LEO's because their salary is paid by the PRIVATE organization of a university lol

SO the question is.....the TSA dude that walks up to your car.........what is his job description . he could be a screen-er or he could be a marshal. hard part is how do you tell?

Ask Them

carry for myself said:

this is a good question. luckily we don't have this issue in Maine. but its along the same lines as "university police"........in order for someone to be a "law enforcement officer" they have to be on payroll for a STATE OR FEDERAL agency to begin with. now if the TSA agent is not armed and is just a screen-er even though they are a federal employee they are not a LEO. unless otherwise describe in their job description. just like a lot of university cops are NOT LEO's because their salary is paid by the PRIVATE organization of a university lol

SO the question is.....the TSA dude that walks up to your car.........what is his job description . he could be a screen-er or he could be a marshal. hard part is how do you tell?

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Ask them for their government issued picture ID. (Seriously)

~Whitney

I think any TSA guy would:
1. Be under no duty to inform you of anything during said stop let alone his Super Secret(tm) job description, lol;
2. Probably be 'deputized' during his service at the stop.

Hopefully, they're too dumb to realize this and one can just defy them, or get them to identify/show ID. IDK, IANAL.

Badger Johnson said:

I think any TSA guy would:
1. Be under no duty to inform you of anything during said stop let alone his Super Secret(tm) job description, lol;
2. Probably be 'deputized' during his service at the stop.

Hopefully, they're too dumb to realize this and one can just defy them, or get them to identify/show ID. IDK, IANAL.

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Any person performing a law enforcement action of custodial arrest is mandated to inform you of your rights under Miranda and Edwards - but only at the time that they place you under arrest. (Remember that it is not saying "You are under arrest" that places you in that status.)

Federal LEOs are usually not deputized when participating in a joint task force operation because their authority is usually greater than that of the local LEA. Any federal agent who is not qualified as a LEO could only be deputized in a declared emergency or when specifically instructed by a LEO to perform custodial arrest duties related to the capture of a person escaping from the LEO (the cop on the street who yells at you to "Grab that guy!" has just deputized you - but it is extremely time-and-circumstance limited in scope of authority on his part and on your part to act under the deputization).

As I understand the situation, TSA screeners were screening while federal and local/state LEOs were exercising their authority to stop traffic and order drivers to submit to the screening, and were prepared to exercise arrest authority against anybody who refused to submit to screening. Since screening does not involve any actual law enforcement activity the screeners had no need to be deputized.

stay safe.

skidmark said:

As I understand the situation, TSA screeners were screening while federal and local/state LEOs were exercising their authority to stop traffic and order drivers to submit to the screening, and were prepared to exercise arrest authority against anybody who refused to submit to screening. Since screening does not involve any actual law enforcement activity the screeners had no need to be deputized.

stay safe.

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So let me get this straight. A non-sworn, non-LEO conducting an unconstitutional search in direct violation of the 4th Amendment (a process which they ADMIT is NOT a law enforcement activity!) can have a REAL LEO arrest a citizen for refusing to give consent for said illegal search?

Yeah, that makes all kinds of sense...

I don't doubt that is how it goes down. I just can't understand how it is justified legally, morally, or ethically.

If a CITIZEN did the same thing to people on the street, they'd be arrested and called a highwayman or a domestic terrorist.

I say, if the shoe fits, TSA, you might as well wear it.

I don't mean anything by that, I'm just sayin'...

skidmark said:

Federal LEOs are usually not deputized when participating in a joint task force operation because their authority is usually greater than that of the local LEA.

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Actually for the majority of the history of the USA, exactly the OPPOSITE was true. Sheriffs were the supreme LEO of a locality. Federal agents USED to have to get permission from the Sheriff to operate locally. In some states, they had to get permission to even BE in a local jurisdiction on official business.

But Prohibition changed all that, when the BATF and Treasury decided to write some new laws giving themselves broad reach, usurping local LE control and authority, and essentially establishing a Federal Police Force that answered to no one but the President.

Personally I'd like to see those bygone days return--where Federal Agents and employees had no LE power or authority locally unless they were acting under the blessing of the local Sheriff (who, as an ELECTED official, is totally answerable for his actions...) Restoring LE authority to the local Sheriff would go a LONG way to fix much of the over-reach we are seeing these days--from the BATFE to the FDA to HHS to USDA...

Dreamer said:

Actually for the majority of the history of the USA, exactly the OPPOSITE was true. Sheriffs were the supreme LEO of a locality. Federal agents USED to have to get permission from the Sheriff to operate locally. In some states, they had to get permission to even BE in a local jurisdiction on official business.

But Prohibition changed all that, when the BATF and Treasury decided to write some new laws giving themselves broad reach, usurping local LE control and authority, and essentially establishing a Federal Police Force that answered to no one but the President.

Personally I'd like to see those bygone days return--where Federal Agents and employees had no LE power or authority locally unless they were acting under the blessing of the local Sheriff (who, as an ELECTED official, is totally answerable for his actions...) Restoring LE authority to the local Sheriff would go a LONG way to fix much of the over-reach we are seeing these days--from the BATFE to the FDA to HHS to USDA...

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http://www.amazon.com/County-Sheriff-Americas-Last-Hope/dp/B002PKCMFO

Herr Heckler Koch said:

There are almost ONE MILLION armed federal agents within the borders of the US - scrooing Posse Comitatus. Even such as the FDA and EPA have JBTs.

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The following information is probably fifteen years old. It is a list of federal agencies which authorize certain personnel to carry firearms:

The Environmental Protection Agency
The Department of Education
The Department of Agriculture
The Department of Immigration
The Department of Labor
The Department of Energy
The Department of Commerce
The Bureau of Land Management
The Federal Aviation Agency
The Department of Health and Human Resources
The Department of Housing and Urban Development
The State Department
The Internal Revenue Service
The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives


So the FDA does as well, eh? Not surprised.

If one were to happen upon such an abortion of "legal" action, why not really drive them crazy and put your sidearm on your dash in full view? They can't do squat about it (talking in Virginia) so it could be interesting.

Seriously, I wrote something similar to this a few weeks ago on another thread where someone happened upon a TSA checkpoint and was carrying openly at the time. Of course, we are not a duty to inform state and would not have to provide a CHP when OC'ing. So let's say you get out of your car and suddenly some TSA "agent", seeing your firearm and not being completely familiar with Virginia laws and customs, pulls down on you. How does that go down? What happens now?

As a side note, I have thought all along that the supreme law enforcement authority within a state is the county sheriff and that his power and authority trumps that of even any federal law enforcement agency. Is this not the case?


BTW, excellent subject matter to discuss as it could very well come to pass that we see this sort of thing spreading.

Yes, this is indeed a strange one here.. How/where do they even get the juridiction for this, to begin with?
And one has to wonder about their budget, in this economy, how they can justifiably fund such an activity right now..is this a State-level item, or Federal?
If Federal, how the heck does it only go down in a couple of States, and-for that matter- why these particular States?
Whole thing makes zero sense to me, really.

I'm not sure I would even stop for a GSA license plated vehicle in the first place. Assumimg I did stop, I would chew them out for interupting my trip and leave.

If they had some lawful authority stop me (Sheriff or State Patrol) I would stop for the Sheriff and State Patrol, and then ask where their warrant was. Random checks are not legal in WA state.