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Thread: Permit to Buy Handgun denied, legal?

  1. #1
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    Permit to Buy Handgun denied, legal?

    I was recently denied a permit/certificate that would allow me to buy handguns in South Sioux City, Nebraska by the Chief of Police. Reasons stated: "The background check that came back is not in question, you have not broken any laws and are in good standing with the state. However, there are two incidents in which officers were dispatched to respond to calls that you were openly carrying what appeared to be a pistol (which was in reality a pellet pistol). This brings into question your sensibility and responsibility as a gun owner and I am denying your application for this certificate."

    Can he do this? Is this legal? Should I petition the mayor or the NE state patrol? Or should I go about appealing it?

  2. #2
    Regular Member MilProGuy's Avatar
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    I will be interested to learn how this all turns out for you, and will follow this thread with great interest.

    Good luck.
    Proud Veteran ~ U.S. Army / Army Reserve

    Mississippi State Guard ~ Honorably Retired


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    Regular Member Waterborne's Avatar
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    I'm not entirely sure on how it works in your state but if there is an appeal process, I would start it. Your permit was denied because of the chiefs feelings and not by actual law. Any decent appeals process should focus on the first sentence in the denial that your background check is clear and you have not violated any law then order the permit issued. If that fails, I would seek legal counsel and sue them for denying your 2A rights under the color of law based on some chiefs feelings. Call me crazy, but I do not think that will hold up well in court at all for them. Especially after he has already told you that you have not broken any laws and that you would otherwise not be prohibited from obtaining a purchase permit.

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    Regular Member DocWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Waterborne View Post
    I'm not entirely sure on how it works in your state but if there is an appeal process, I would start it. Your permit was denied because of the chiefs feelings and not by actual law. Any decent appeals process should focus on the first sentence in the denial that your background check is clear and you have not violated any law then order the permit issued. If that fails, I would seek legal counsel and sue them for denying your 2A rights under the color of law based on some chiefs feelings. Call me crazy, but I do not think that will hold up well in court at all for them. Especially after he has already told you that you have not broken any laws and that you would otherwise not be prohibited from obtaining a purchase permit.
    I would not only appeal it but would talk to a couple of lawyers to see about suing the city, police department, and him for defimation or any other civil reason a lawyer can think of.

    He has no basis of law he is just using his own options to deny a citizen of his rights.

    Take as much as you can get and donate it to gun rights defense fund or something, it isn't about the money but FREEDOM.

  5. #5
    Regular Member DocWalker's Avatar
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    Cool

    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    Whatever taxpayer cash you could get from the folks that take our money should go to BackStoppers.....that would be sweet irony. Makes the chief look even more idiotic.
    It should be put out in the press if you recieve a settlement or win in a civil action that it is all the taxpayers that are paying for the police chiefs illegal actions. I can see the headlines now....."taxpayer's pay for police chief's ignorance and anti-american stance".

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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    Do you have his reason in writing?

    Is Nebraska a shall issue or may issue state?

    Document, then research state law and talk to a lawyer. Any other contact with the Chief or city government is a waste of time and potentially money.

    I tend to like the 'blind-siding' technique when encouraging agents of the state to follow the law. Nothing brings a smile to my face faster than seeing the look on a POS LEO's face when he is getting his back-side handed him, legally.

    Then, if it works out for ya, go to the local media and tell your story about how the local Chief is prone to violate state law, if in fact he did break state law, and got caught violating state law.
    Nebraska is a shall-issue state. But I think he's under the impression that shall-issue only applies to ccw permits. I spent a great length of time on the phone with the Nebraska State Patrol permits division and finally got a confirmation that shall-issue extends to these certificate to buy permits as well. I have the letter from him, it's signed and dated. It's dated the 10th and I just got it today (have 10 days to appeal), I don't think that's a coincidence either lol.

  7. #7
    Regular Member NavyMike's Avatar
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    Do you have a Nebraska Concealed Handgun Permit?

    Quote Originally Posted by cjschram View Post
    Nebraska is a shall-issue state. But I think he's under the impression that shall-issue only applies to ccw permits. I spent a great length of time on the phone with the Nebraska State Patrol permits division and finally got a confirmation that shall-issue extends to these certificate to buy permits as well. I have the letter from him, it's signed and dated. It's dated the 10th and I just got it today (have 10 days to appeal), I don't think that's a coincidence either lol.
    If you already hold a concealed handgun permit, you are exempt from the purchase certificate requirement.

    Cite: Nebraska Statute 69-2403 (e).
    cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscripti catapultas habebunt

  8. #8
    Regular Member NavyMike's Avatar
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    Cite for Shall Issue Purchase Cerificate

    Quote Originally Posted by cjschram View Post
    Nebraska is a shall-issue state. But I think he's under the impression that shall-issue only applies to ccw permits. I spent a great length of time on the phone with the Nebraska State Patrol permits division and finally got a confirmation that shall-issue extends to these certificate to buy permits as well. I have the letter from him, it's signed and dated. It's dated the 10th and I just got it today (have 10 days to appeal), I don't think that's a coincidence either lol.
    NRS 69-2404:

    ....An applicant shall receive a certificate If he or she is 21 or older and not prohibited from purchasing/ possessing a handgun by 18USC.922.
    cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscripti catapultas habebunt

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    Quote Originally Posted by NavyMike View Post
    NRS 69-2404:

    ....An applicant shall receive a certificate If he or she is 21 or older and not prohibited from purchasing/ possessing a handgun by 18USC.922.
    Thanks so much for this! I don't have a concealed carry permit, so I would need this certificate. I plan on talking to a lawyer in the next few days after I appeal this and I will write back here when I hear something back.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cjschram View Post
    Nebraska is a shall-issue state. But I think he's under the impression that shall-issue only applies to ccw permits. I spent a great length of time on the phone with the Nebraska State Patrol permits division and finally got a confirmation that shall-issue extends to these certificate to buy permits as well. I have the letter from him, it's signed and dated. It's dated the 10th and I just got it today (have 10 days to appeal), I don't think that's a coincidence either lol.
    I would file for sure, a law suit in federal court, against this police and the city.
    Let them explain in front of a federal judge.
    The right to keep and bear arms ! Is your right in all states since the McDonald case.
    "Deprivation of rights under color of law"
    Good luck !
    Robin47

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    http://img196.imageshack.us/img196/8849/emailscreen.png

    Got an email back from the mayor. I can't believe the audacity of these people! Who do these people think they are that they can override the laws that they are sworn to uphold!? I really hope the judge denies this so I can sue everybody I can think of! My hearing for appeal is set for November 29th 9:30 am.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cjschram View Post
    http://img196.imageshack.us/img196/8849/emailscreen.png

    Got an email back from the mayor. I can't believe the audacity of these people! Who do these people think they are that they can override the laws that they are sworn to uphold!? I really hope the judge denies this so I can sue everybody I can think of! My hearing for appeal is set for November 29th 9:30 am.
    The statute is clear. No reason to deny, since you are not barred from possession.



    As an aside, crop the image. All the browser tabs are visible.
    "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin

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    Regular Member VW_Factor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wrightme View Post
    As an aside, crop the image. All the browser tabs are visible.
    OMFG Browser tabs!!!?!!

    so?
    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady
    I am no victim, just a poor college student who looks to the day where the rich have the living piss taxed out of them.

  14. #14
    Founder's Club Member thebigsd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VW_Factor View Post
    OMFG Browser tabs!!!?!!

    so?
    Schiltz, you are obviously unaware of the extreme danger posed by rampant browser tabs. They must be cropped and contained!!!! The future of humanity depends upon it....

    On topic, good luck with your appeal! Are you willing to share some details about your pellet gun incidents?
    Last edited by thebigsd; 11-22-2011 at 05:37 PM.
    "When seconds count between living or dying, the police are only minutes away."

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    http://img685.imageshack.us/img685/44/001lak.jpg

    http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/627/002din.jpg

    (1st is the police chief's letter. 2nd is my response sent via fax and email as well.)

  16. #16
    Founder's Club Member protias's Avatar
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    Give 'em hell!
    No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. Thomas Jefferson (1776)

    If you go into a store, with a gun, and rob it, you have forfeited your right to not get shot - Joe Deters, Hamilton County (Cincinnati) Prosecutor

    I ask sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people except for a few politicians. - George Mason (father of the Bill of Rights and The Virginia Declaration of Rights)

  17. #17
    Regular Member VW_Factor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thebigsd View Post
    Schiltz, you are obviously unaware of the extreme danger posed by rampant browser tabs. They must be cropped and contained!!!! The future of humanity depends upon it....

    On topic, good luck with your appeal! Are you willing to share some details about your pellet gun incidents?
    /looks for Schiltz

    >.>
    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady
    I am no victim, just a poor college student who looks to the day where the rich have the living piss taxed out of them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wrightme View Post
    The statute is clear. No reason to deny, since you are not barred from possession.



    As an aside, crop the image. All the browser tabs are visible.
    Maybe he was denied because he plays World of Warcraft?

  19. #19
    Regular Member Lord Sega's Avatar
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    FOR THE ALLIANCE!

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    Push legislation to legalize OCS (Open Carry Swords) !!
    Last edited by Lord Sega; 11-23-2011 at 12:37 AM.

  20. #20
    Campaign Veteran Schlitz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thebigsd View Post
    Schiltz, you are obviously unaware of the extreme danger posed by rampant browser tabs. They must be cropped and contained!!!! The future of humanity depends upon it....

    On topic, good luck with your appeal! Are you willing to share some details about your pellet gun incidents?
    Quote Originally Posted by VW_Factor View Post
    /looks for Schiltz

    >.>
    wait, how in the sam adams did I get dragged into this?
    Last edited by Schlitz; 11-23-2011 at 01:00 AM.
    “The claim and exercise of a constitutional right cannot be converted into a crime.”
    [Miller vs. U.S., 230 F. Supp. 486, 489 (1956)]
    “There can be no sanction or penalty imposed upon one because of his exercise of constitutional rights.”
    [Sherar vs. Cullen, 481 F2d. 946 (1973)]

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    Might I suggest that it might be best to not invite a phone call? Keep everything in writing, that way there is no he-said-she-said.

    Blade
    IANAL

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    probably denied for listening to Flo-Rida ft TPain..

    Good luck, stay sharp and respectful dont back down the law is on your side.



    Tim

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    ...in, with popcorn!

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    Regular Member Tacitus42's Avatar
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    Hearing

    How did the hearing go on Nov 29th? Updates?

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    Thumbs down This is a ploy used all to often to strip rights

    Quote Originally Posted by Waterborne View Post
    I'm not entirely sure on how it works in your state but if there is an appeal process, I would start it. Your permit was denied because of the chiefs feelings and not by actual law. Any decent appeals process should focus on the first sentence in the denial that your background check is clear and you have not violated any law then order the permit issued. If that fails, I would seek legal counsel and sue them for denying your 2A rights under the color of law based on some chiefs feelings. Call me crazy, but I do not think that will hold up well in court at all for them. Especially after he has already told you that you have not broken any laws and that you would otherwise not be prohibited from obtaining a purchase permit.
    Let's be honest here - Yes you can (depending on the laws of your state) pursue this in court at the cost of thousands of dollars with an attorney. That is the trick a corrupt agency will use. They know most people won't in places that require purchase permits (which is unconstitutional in my opinion). In my/our State MI, to be able to appeal a denial with the state police, you must first be flagged in the LEIN system by (yep you guessed it) the agency that denies you. This loophole means they can simply refuse you (without flagging you).
    As with most things involving the ' legal ' system many thing are done that are in fact illegal.
    “A government that does not trust it’s law-abiding citizens to keep and bear arms is itself unworthy of trust.” James Madison.

    “Firearms are second only to the Constitution in importance; they are the peoples' liberty's teeth.” “The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good.” George Washington

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