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Thread: US house passes conceal carry bill for inter state travel

  1. #1
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    US house passes conceal carry bill for inter state travel


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    Ain't going nowhere, won't even be voted on in the senate. Can't even get all republican senators to support it...

    http://www.opposingviews.com/i/socie...carry-gun-bill
    Last edited by svelectric; 11-17-2011 at 12:15 PM.

  3. #3
    Regular Member MilProGuy's Avatar
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    "Under the House legislation, people with a concealed carry permit in one state could carry a concealed weapon in every other state that gives people the right to carry concealed weapons."
    Proud Veteran ~ U.S. Army / Army Reserve

    Mississippi State Guard ~ Honorably Retired


  4. #4
    Herr Heckler Koch
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    Let us hope and pray that the Senate does its duty and protects their state's rights. State Rights are the last bulwark against federal meddling now that the Constitution is so disrespected and base ignorance tolerated in the electorate. States Rights are a fine teergruben against an overweening tyrant.
    Last edited by Herr Heckler Koch; 11-17-2011 at 12:46 PM.

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    Regular Member DocWalker's Avatar
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    I watched part of the debate on the floor and it was pretty telling.

    A female DEMOCRAT congress woman said "people will be traveling accross state lines ARMED AND DANGEROUS." She was part right ARMED, but I take offense to the DANGEROUS part. She insulted every law abiding citzen by her comments. The only people that are DANGEROUS is people like her that are in positions of power to affect others. She would just assume the average American citizen be a slave as long as she is a owner.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Herr Heckler Koch View Post
    Let us hope and pray that the Senate does its duty and protects their state's rights. State Rights are the last bulwark against federal meddling now that the Constitution is so disrespected and base ignorance tolerated in the electorate. States Rights are a fine teergruben against an overweening tyrant.
    I'd think it'd be easy enough to make an end-run around that. Do the same thing they do with drinking laws / BAL levels for intoxication.

    States that do not accept other states' carry permits receive decreased federal highway dollars.

    I'm assuming (haven't read it) that's not in the bill the House passed...which isn't going anywhere.

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    Founder's Club Member Brass Magnet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Herr Heckler Koch View Post
    Let us hope and pray that the Senate does its duty and protects their state's rights. State Rights are the last bulwark against federal meddling now that the Constitution is so disrespected and base ignorance tolerated in the electorate. States Rights are a fine teergruben against an overweening tyrant.
    The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.
    Ergh.... State powers, state POWERS. Sorry, I can't help myself with the pet peeve.

    Carry on...
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  8. #8
    Herr Heckler Koch
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brass Magnet View Post
    Ergh.... State powers, state POWERS. Sorry, I can't help myself with the pet peeve.
    Search internet "states rights" - 1.36 Billion hits, "states powers" - 0.2 Billion hits. Search Library of Congress "states rights" - 354982 hits, "states powers" - 6374

    Do you want to quibble your peeve or communicate? Some jurisdictions prohibit quibbling a peeve as an obscenity.

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    Regular Member bigdaddy1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DocWalker View Post
    I watched part of the debate on the floor and it was pretty telling.

    A female DEMOCRAT congress woman said "people will be traveling accross state lines ARMED AND DANGEROUS." She was part right ARMED, but I take offense to the DANGEROUS part. She insulted every law abiding citzen by her comments. The only people that are DANGEROUS is people like her that are in positions of power to affect others. She would just assume the average American citizen be a slave as long as she is a owner.
    If you can find out who this misinformed person is we can educate her.
    What part of "shall not be infringed" don't you understand?

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    WHY EVERY CCW HOLDER SHOULD VEHEMENTLY OPPOSE THIS BILL:

    H.R. 822 — A Trojan Horse?
    http://www.nationalgunrights.org/h-r...-trojan-horse/

    I’m worried.

    Some well-meaning, but in my opinion very misguided pro-gunners are working to pass a bill that could turn into a Trojan Horse for more gun control.

    Of course, I’m talking about H.R. 822, the so-called “National Reciprocity Act,” which could open the flood gates of gun control.

    I’m calling it the National CCW Registration Act.

    While the idea that all states should recognize a concealed weapons permit is sound public policy, the use of the anti-gun federal bureaucracy to implement it is simply foolish.

    Once the Federal Government is in the business of setting the standards for concealed carry permits, it’s only a matter of time before they start using that power to restrict our rights.

    Now you may hear arguments that this bill doesn’t do that, and maybe that’s true … for now.

    Even worse, once this bill starts moving, anyone can amend the bill with anything … and no legislation can bind a future Congress in any way. And that doesn’t count what Obamacrats in the Department of Justice might dream up as the “regulations” to carry out the legislative “intent.”

    ...


    ...


    Once gun owners let the Obamacrats start mandating whether states recognize permit reciprocity, they will want to mandate what it takes to get and keep those permits.

    We’re talking about:

    - More onerous standards to acquire a permit, so that only FBI agents can pass muster (look at New York’s permit system);
    - Higher fees;
    - More training requirements;
    - A demonstration of “Need” for a permit;
    - More frequent renewal periods;
    - Federally-mandated waiting periods;
    - A national database of all permit holders, accessible by Attorney General Eric Holder;
    - An extensive, federally-created list of Criminal Safezones, where only criminals will carry and where law-abiding gun owners are vulnerable;
    The list of potential problems is endless.
    Read the full article at the link. BTW the bold part is what actually almost did happen but luckily failed this time:
    http://www.facebook.com/repjustinamash

    Here's the roll call for the Jackson Lee of TX Amendment 4 to H R 822, which requires all states to create nationally accessible databases of all concealed carry permit holders. This is just plain dangerous. I voted no. It failed 139-284. http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2011/roll846.xml
    http://www.nationalgunrights.org/h-r...to-the-senate/

    H.R. 822 moves to the Senate

    I was right to be concerned.

    Not only was H.R. 822 — the Trojan horse gun control bill — passed out of the House of Representatives this evening, it was passed with an amendment that would open the door to federal biometric requirements for concealed firearms permits and a federally-administered database of all permit holders.

    Only 7 Republican Members of Congress stood against federal overreach in the concealed carry process by opposing this bill (you can see how your Representative voted here: http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2011/roll852.xml).

    The bill was amended this afternoon by ostensibly “pro-gun” Republicans to require a study be done on the ability of law enforcement officers to verify the validity of out-of-state concealed firearm permits.

    You and I both know what this means. A year from now, the study will come back stating that the only way to “verify” out-of-state permits is through federally-mandated biometric requirements for concealed firearm permits and Congress “must” create a nationally administered database of all concealed weapon permit holders.



    Don't get fooled by it's name. Investigate what's actually in the bag.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hazek View Post
    WHY EVERY CCW HOLDER SHOULD VEHEMENTLY OPPOSE THIS BILL:

    H.R. 822 — A Trojan Horse?
    http://www.nationalgunrights.org/h-r...-trojan-horse/



    Read the full article at the link. BTW the bold part is what actually almost did happen but luckily failed this time:
    http://www.facebook.com/repjustinamash



    http://www.nationalgunrights.org/h-r...to-the-senate/

    H.R. 822 moves to the Senate






    Don't get fooled by it's name. Investigate what's actually in the bag.
    How do we then interpret the second amendment? If states that do prohibit the 'bearing' clause like NY. Don't you think that the supremacy clause should be applied to those states phrobiting the second amendment? I thought states rights are ones not in the federal constitution, sush as those 'other rights'. feds already assume they have gun control rights on their side but the 2 supreme court cases speak otherwise. My two cents. I amy be wrong.

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    Regular Member DocWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigdaddy1 View Post
    If you can find out who this misinformed person is we can educate her.
    I didn't catch her name but she was a rather large African-American woman who was very angry and talked like she was scolding a child. I doo know she is not an Idaho representive and believe she is a democrat.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DocWalker View Post
    I didn't catch her name but she was a rather large African-American woman who was very angry and talked like she was scolding a child. I doo know she is not an Idaho representive and believe she is a democrat.
    Tell me it wasn't this woman:

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Founder's Club Member Brass Magnet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Herr Heckler Koch View Post
    Search internet "states rights" - 1.36 Billion hits, "states powers" - 0.2 Billion hits. Search Library of Congress "states rights" - 354982 hits, "states powers" - 6374

    Do you want to quibble your peeve or communicate? Some jurisdictions prohibit quibbling a peeve as an obscenity.
    Careful, your "Doug" is showing....whoops!....shhhhh

    BTW,
    I'll do both and quibble my peeve anywhere I darn well please, TYVM.

    Sorry, just like grammar nazis; I can't help myself sometimes.
    Last edited by Brass Magnet; 11-17-2011 at 03:54 PM.
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  15. #15
    Regular Member DocWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by McNutty View Post
    Tell me it wasn't this woman:

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	moore_gwen.jpg 
Views:	60 
Size:	60.7 KB 
ID:	7422
    It might have been but I was busy cleaning up my coffee I spit all over the place when she said I was armed and dangerous.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DocWalker View Post
    I didn't catch her name but she was a rather large African-American woman who was very angry and talked like she was scolding a child. I doo know she is not an Idaho representive and believe she is a democrat.
    It was Representative Jackson Lee (D) of Texas.

    She had another amendment that failed where she wanted folks from state A, traveling to state B, to call and notify the state police at least 24 hours in advance that they would be coming to their state. That way, if you got stopped at 3am the police would know if you had a concealed weapon instead of "...walking back to your car and seeing your concealed weapon on your hip..."

  17. #17
    Regular Member DocWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hrdware View Post
    It was Representative Jackson Lee (D) of Texas.

    She had another amendment that failed where she wanted folks from state A, traveling to state B, to call and notify the state police at least 24 hours in advance that they would be coming to their state. That way, if you got stopped at 3am the police would know if you had a concealed weapon instead of "...walking back to your car and seeing your concealed weapon on your hip..."
    Thanks

    That would have made so much sense how would the cop know who was driving what car?

    If your gun is concealed how would he see it?

    Who elected this POS.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DocWalker View Post
    Thanks

    That would have made so much sense how would the cop know who was driving what car?

    If your gun is concealed how would he see it?

    Who elected this POS.
    Believe it or not, she is a Texan
    Exodus 21:12-14

    Click here for some Common Sense

  19. #19
    Herr Heckler Koch
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    Look at her committee assignments - terrorism and security. This is the schtumpig that wanted to task the Mars rovers to look for the flag that Neil Armstrong planted in 1969. A favorite whipping post for the right wing radio talkers.

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    Ahhh, come on! This is the epitome of tinfoil hattery.

    Anti-gunners will always want to try and take our rights away, regardless of whether there's an HR 822 or not. Take, for example, Boxer's bill that would require all states to go to may issue. They don't need the Trojan Horse to attack, they'd do it anyway. What they might do is irrelevant to the discussion, and quite frankly wreaks of paranoia.

    As for states' rights, the tenth amendment doesn't apply here. The fourteenth amendment authorized congress to enact laws to protect individual rights from state infringement. If we elevate the states above the constitution, they'll screw us over just like the Feds would. Anything that restricts government power is a good thing for our rights.

    The only argument left is that it's a less than ideal bill. If we never support less than the ideal, we'd never accomplish anything because nobody will work with us. HR 822, as amended, doesn't take anything away, so what harm in using it as a stepping stone toward something better later?

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    Quote Originally Posted by PracticalTactical View Post
    ..... If we never support less than the ideal, we'd never accomplish anything because nobody will work with us. HR 822, as amended, doesn't take anything away, so what harm in using it as a stepping stone toward something better later?
    I'm trying to imagine a Federal law not contained in our Constitution that has offered me more freedom. I can't name any offhand, but there might be one or two.

    What excatly are We trying to "accomplish"? thanks-s.K
    Exodus 21:12-14

    Click here for some Common Sense

  22. #22
    Herr Heckler Koch
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    Follow the money, the root of all evil.

    Quote Originally Posted by SourKraut View Post
    What exactly are We trying to "accomplish"? thanks-s.K
    There is no their there, nor we here.

    Some are sheepdogs, some would be elites, some are still playing soldier, some have to teach, some are compensating, some are displacing, some are disrupting and some are just trolling. Guns are the central issue, but the movement is without nucleus and without direction, formless in the void.

    Follow the money. Follow the money. Follow the money.

    My personal financial adviser called yesterday and we agreed that we are bailing out, dumping European stocks and moving back to a conservative United States based position. Read and understand The Black Swan by Nassim Nicholas Taleb on The Impact of the Highly Improbable.

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    Travel Between states

    Granted driving a vehicle is a privelige and having self protection/preservation means is a RIGHT.

    Since I can travel from Wi to any state I choose on my driver liscense why not the same for a permission slip? There is no need for the goberment to make a law allowing this. In some states chewing gum on Sunday is a crime, so you can to possibly know every law but common sense comes into play. When they mandate what would happen in this bill it is possibly the first step towards national registration. I am not for that one bit.

    I am tired of big goberment telling us how to live.

    As for the woman from texas.... vote her out!
    May I see your First, Fourth And Thirteenth Amendment Permits, please?

    Guns do not make you a killer. I
    think killing makes you a killer. You can kill
    someone with a baseball bat or a car, but no one is
    trying to ban you from driving to the ball game. (Andy Rooney RIP)

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    It's amusing how the only people against this are the "everyone should have mandatory training and guns aren't a right" crowd, and the incorrectly-informed "states' powers" (they call it states rights) crowd. They seem to have completely missed the USSC Heller/McDonald cases, which make this a federal, constitutional, issue now. When states are violating equal protection, and violating the right to bear arms, the federal government is mandated to step in to protect these INDIVIDUAL rights against state level infringement.

    This isn't a perfect bill, but it's a hell of a lot better than what we have now.

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    CA, IA, MD, MN, NJ, NY are the only states in the union that don't have a right to keep and bear arms provision in their state constitution. The carry of arms is a state issued privilege.

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