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Thread: Federal (national) CCW Reciprocity Bill and it's impact on HI

  1. #1
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    Federal (national) CCW Reciprocity Bill and it's impact on HI

    If this becomes law, the State of HI (meaning the anti-gun state Legislature, Governor, Police Chief, etc.) ain't going to be happy! Won't they be forced to let visitors having CC permits from their home states CC while in HI?

    Although HI has and continues to disregard the 2nd Amendment with impunity (doesn't allow OC and won't issue permits for CC, therefore no "bearing" of arms allowed), STILL, it DOES have a CC permit system in place -- whether they ISSUE any or not...meaning theoretically, it IS possible to get a permit. So since HI DOES have a permit system in place, they would have to honor OTHER states' CC permits, right?

    I suspect that like some other antigun/repressive states (like CA), HI might do whatever it can get away with (meaning just about anything, and the people there won't protest), to prevent "all these people coming in with guns." There'll be a big hurry to find SOME way to short-curcuit any federal CCW law in order to keep their respective anti-gun status-quo agendas intact.

    I wonder how states like CA and HI are going to react, or if even NOW they are making plans to weasel their way around any new federal/national CCW law...

    But you know, it's outrageously ironic that in the near future, mainlanders just might be able to go to repressive HI -- where no one THERE can get a CC permit -- yet the "outsiders" would be ABLE to CC in HI since he/she would have a CC permit from his/her home state. And whether the HPD Police Chief likes it or not. Can you see HPD doing any wholesale harrassment of mainlanders discovered to be carrying CC?

    Comments? Predictions?
    Last edited by cloudcroft; 11-17-2011 at 11:58 PM.

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    If, theoretically, a Hawaiian were to be a part-time resident of, say, Utah or Arizona....they could, in theory, carry on that state's permit, assuming, of course, that they only presented an ID from the part-time state and left the HI DL at home or in the car.

    States like Arizona will give an ID card to pretty much anybody who can receive mail somewhere in the state.

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    Regular Member DonRow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PracticalTactical View Post
    If, theoretically, a Hawaiian were to be a part-time resident of, say, Utah or Arizona....they could, in theory, carry on that state's permit, assuming, of course, that they only presented an ID from the part-time state and left the HI DL at home or in the car.

    States like Arizona will give an ID card to pretty much anybody who can receive mail somewhere in the state.
    Hmmmm, funny you were saying that, I was just thinking that. But we'll see how far this get's. I said it before and I'll say it again "Hawaii is California Jr." When it comes to laws. I think, but don't quote me on this Hawaii Defense Foundation gives classes for Utah CCW in Honolulu.
    Last edited by DonRow; 11-17-2011 at 09:36 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cloudcroft View Post
    If this becomes law, the State of HI (meaning the anti-gun state Legislature, Governor, Police Chief, etc.) ain't going to be happy! Won't they be forced to let visitors having CC permits from their home states CC while in HI?

    Although HI has been and continues to disregard the 2nd Amendment with impunity (doesn't allow OC and won't issue permits for CC, therefore no "bearing" of arms allowed), STILL, it DOES have a CC permit system in place -- whether they ISSUE any or not...meaning theoretically, it IS possible to get a permit. So since HI DOES have a permit system in place, they would have to honor OTHER states' CC permits, right?

    I suspect that like some other antigun/repressive states (like CA), HI might do whatever it can get away with (meaning just about anything, and the people there won't protest), to prevent "all these people coming in with guns." There'll be a big hurry to find SOME way to short-curcuit any federal CCW law in order to keep their respective anti-gun status-quo agendas intact.

    I wonder how states like CA and HI are going to react, or if even NOW they are making plans to weasel their way around any new federal/national CCW law...

    But you know, it's outrageously ironic that in the near future, mainlanders just might be able to go to repressive HI -- where no one THERE can get a CC permit -- yet the "outsiders" would be ABLE to CC in HI since he/she would have a CC permit from his/her home state. And whether the HPD Police Chief likes it or not. Can you see HPD doing any wholesale harrassment of mainlanders discovered to be carrying CC?

    Comments? Predictions?
    The impact on HI will be the same as on every other state in the Union (with the exception of DC and Illinois.) Non-residents with CC permits will have their right to carry a concealed weapon restored. The residents will still be deprived of their right to carry.

    There will be 3 possible outcomes from this law that I can se:

    1. States will be concerned about non-residents coming to their states and carrying their guns. The only way to prevent that is to revoke their residents' right to carry concealed. They will attempt to change the law to revoke the right to carry concealed. This is likely to cause a **** storm among 2A advocates in the state, and make for interesting politics.

    2. Citizens will be angry that they don't get the same rights that non-residents do. They will force their state to go shall-issue.

    3. People will notice that nothing really changes, and not change any state laws.

    A lot of people think #1 is most likely. I think #1 is a quick knee jerk reaction. We might get a few of those. I think #3 is most likely over the long term. I hope #2 happens.

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    Regular Member DonRow's Avatar
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    I'm thinking #1 is what's going to happen here. #1 is always the reaction around here. Always!!

    Oh #3 also.

    yep I'm torn between #1 #3 now.


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    Last edited by DonRow; 11-18-2011 at 12:39 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PracticalTactical View Post
    If, theoretically, a Hawaiian were to be a part-time resident of, say, Utah or Arizona....they could, in theory, carry on that state's permit, assuming, of course, that they only presented an ID from the part-time state and left the HI DL at home or in the car.

    States like Arizona will give an ID card to pretty much anybody who can receive mail somewhere in the state.
    Arizona will issue permits to expatriate Americans who do not have a U.S. mailing address. They were kind enough to mail an application packet to me here in Thailand.

    Oh and by the way, I predict Scenario #2 above (which is why the Anti's are so scared of National Carry Reciprocity).
    Last edited by OC4me; 11-18-2011 at 02:08 PM.

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    It would be interesting to overhear a private conversation between Kealoha and Abercrombie on this subject...

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    Regular Member DonRow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cloudcroft View Post
    It would be interesting to overhear a private conversation between Kealoha and Abercrombie on this subject...
    Man, what a smokey room that would be, from Kealoha blowing so much smoke up that hippies aśś.


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    Regular Member rushcreek2's Avatar
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    What is the reason for Hawaii's anti-2A condition? I suspect the high percentage of ethnic Japanese may be a partial answer. The only other hunch I have is - possibly HI thinks it is just an extension of Catalina Island and therefore under L.A.'s jurisdiction ?

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    I have thought it might be because of the high number of Asians there also, being that they MIGHT identify more with their "homeland heritage" -- where there IS no traditon of RKBA as in America's history (so it's a new concept to them even though NOW they are supposed to be Americans) -- but that's just speculation. I don't know of any study done to find out if that's one of the reasons, but it IS true that sometimes HI acts like it's a foreign country instead of being a part of the Union.

    [And a lot of Americans still think HI is a foreign country, too -- they ask about getting a passport to go visit HI -- but that's a result of ignorance (their poor education) and so another topic]

    Also, apparently, most HI citizens regularly and persistently vote Democrat, otherwise HI would not be such a liberal/Democrat state as it has since statehood (1959). So I only can conclude that MOST of HI's citizens WANT it that way (repressive re: firearms rights) and do NOT want the kind of "gun freedoms" as seen in many other states of the Union -- which also can be said for states like CA, especially the recent repealing of UNloaded OC there -- where's the general outrage re: that from the citizens of CA? Nowhere to be seen...

    And since no particular race is a clear majority in HI (Oahu especially), I don't know how race would explain that mindset general state-wide anti-gun "we don't recognize the 2nd Amendment" mindset, although there MUST be a large portion of the white mainland-transplants (haoles) -- many I'm sure from the sorry state of CA who are Democrats and vote accordingl (the "take our liberal CA politics to states we move to and ruin THOSE states as well") -- which aids in keeping HI so anti-gun/2nd Amendment/RKBA.

    But again, it's all just trying to guess why HI is so repressive.

    Yes, the main gun range there (Koko Head) is often PACKED with people -- so you DO have x-number of pro-gun people (if using a gun ranges makes them pro-2nd Amendment/RKBA and active supported of the RIGHT of self-defense, meaning the right to CARRY a firearm on one's person) there on Oahu at least -- but exactly how many pro-gun people ARE there? Apparently, not enough of a voting block to make any changes either the last 52 years (since statehood) or maybe not enough even to support any changes presently moving it into pro-gun territory -- such as moving from MAY issue (which means THERE that no permits are issued) permit system to a SHALL issue system.

    Or maybe it's simply because most citizens/voters of HI are simply apathetic and don't really care about this issue.

    Who knows...
    Last edited by cloudcroft; 11-19-2011 at 03:17 PM.

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    I would suspect HI, NJ, MD, etc to have a knee jerk repealing their CC law response, but wether the response would pass is another thing. Then you have the Federal lawsuit that is presently going on in IL (which has no provision for any carry). If this legal action prevails, it is very likely that IL will end up with constitutional carry, both OC and CC imposed on them by the supreme court.

    It is very likely the other state legislatures may wait until that suit is settled law before they act, and as long as that will take, they may forget about it all along anyway. The reason they may wait is because they do not want the possibility of being saddled with court imposed constitutional carry.
    Last edited by hermannr; 11-19-2011 at 05:25 PM.

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    Regular Member DonRow's Avatar
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    I addressed the whole political issue of Hawaii once, I'll just say it again.

    Hawaii, has voted dem. for the past 30+ years, people here do as there told. When the labor unions here tell them to vote democrat, they do it with no questions, cause the unions know more then the common folk (sarcasm). It sucks, a lot of people here are hunters and don't even know what there doing to there feature. When I saw the posting here about the new gun control laws that they got going through legislation, I called some hunting friends the next day and they were pissed, and blown away at the sametime. Hawaii has turned into a waste land for retired burnt out hippies, and yes mostly from California. And believe it or not they have a big hand in controlling legislation here. But oh well, we are few and they are many.

    And I who am 1/4 Hawaiian hope that America gives up Hawaii just to teach people a lesson of what will happen, Hawaii would turn into a third world, civil wars would run ramped because Hawaiians can't even get along or agree on things, and they don't even have a plan.

    When you look at Hawaiian protesting government stuff here, look in the back ground and you'll find some burnt out hippies advising them. I've seen many, and that's why I could never take any of the groups here seriously, in fact I despise them.

    But Nuff ranting, I really hope they pass it, and I hope Hawaii state government doesn't interfere with it. But that's just hoping and wishing.


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    Last edited by DonRow; 11-19-2011 at 08:13 PM.

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    Don,

    I recall you talking about that over in the other thread, but it's good that you repeat yourself here...the more info out there the better (so it's seen in more places) -- so spread it around!

    I know I do...;-)
    Last edited by cloudcroft; 11-20-2011 at 05:13 PM.

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    I'm just a proud American Infidel


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    Last edited by DonRow; 11-21-2011 at 01:41 PM.

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    States like Florida issue Non Res permits like they are candy to the kids...With a national carry, as long as you have a permit, you SHOULD be able to carry in any state.

    Truth is, it's just wishful thinking. National/Constitutional carry won't happen.
    The Second Amendment is in place
    in case the politicians ignore the others

    A gun in the hand is better than a cop on the phone

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    Regular Member DonRow's Avatar
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    I thought it read somewhere that it passed by the senate. I might be seeing things again.


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    Quote Originally Posted by DonRow View Post
    I'm thinking #1 is what's going to happen here. #1 is always the reaction around here. Always!!

    Oh #3 also.

    yep I'm torn between #1 #3 now.
    I disagree. Any act of government almost universally causes #2. Oh wait, you had other meanings for the numbers, didn't you?
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

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    Hehe. Hawaii will have to eat it.


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    Regular Member DonRow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OngoingFreedom View Post
    Hehe. Hawaii will have to eat it.


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    Hahaha I hope so. Lol


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    Hopefully, there will be some positive "unintended consequences" in HI that no one saw coming -- even if it's a back-door way around their may-issue island "paradise."

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    national ccw recip

    According what I have read, if you cannot get a permit in your own state, you will not beable to CCW with a permit from another, if you live in the state. Meaning...if you cannot get a permit in HI (for whatever reason), just because you can get one from FL...doesn't count.

    States still have their own restrictions as far as the people that are considered residences of the state, if for some reason you cannot recieve a permit in your state, other permits will not be valid.

    That said, as resident of Missouri, they cannot refuse my permit.

    Senate has not voted on this Bill, and there is a big push from the left for Obama to veto, if it does pass. If it should pass, it will never pass muster with SCOTUS. 10th Admen.

    Not to worry though, there is another Bill that does pass muster and should be up for vote soon in the house, but the same restrictions will apply.
    Last edited by zekester; 11-26-2011 at 08:15 AM.
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    The fact that locals can't get state approval to carry self-dense weapons while visitors from another state can will not go unnoticed.

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    Fingers crossed

    Quote Originally Posted by hermannr View Post
    I would suspect HI, NJ, MD, etc to have a knee jerk repealing their CC law response, but wether the response would pass is another thing. Then you have the Federal lawsuit that is presently going on in IL (which has no provision for any carry). If this legal action prevails, it is very likely that IL will end up with constitutional carry, both OC and CC imposed on them by the supreme court.

    It is very likely the other state legislatures may wait until that suit is settled law before they act, and as long as that will take, they may forget about it all along anyway. The reason they may wait is because they do not want the possibility of being saddled with court imposed constitutional carry.
    I sure hope you're right on IL. ending up with constitutional carry for OC/CC imposed by the Supreme Court. In the mean time I guess it's "Hurry up and wait"...

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    Regular Member DonRow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Statkowski View Post
    The fact that locals can't get state approval to carry self-dense weapons while visitors from another state can will not go unnoticed.
    Oh no it probably will, everything else here does.


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    Well, if Abercrombie and Kealoha don't notice it first (and publically announce it or take steps to get around it) maybe the people will notice there's been a change in the status-quo the first time local TV or the Star Advertiser report that a "tourist" took out his/her CC handgun and blew away some Wakiki street-trash mugger -- and it was perfectly legal. How shocking would that be?

    Story at 6:00 and video at 10... ;-)

    If it DOES pass and tourists CAN carry, then a whole lot of HPD cops will sure be getting used to a reality completely new to them. I hope their getting used to (some) citizens carrying goes without incident, even if the number of criminals getting shot increases somewhat sharply.

    Of course, it's not law yet so we may be engaging in wishful thinking only...
    Last edited by cloudcroft; 11-26-2011 at 09:39 PM.

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