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New and with basic questions about open carry under 18

CDT COX

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eringdf

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That's such a good idea!! I wish I was closer...I'm in the Triangle area, and to make things harder for scheduling and going to similar meets, I am home from college for a week as of today but I will be going back to college in Virginia when I'm not on break. I am hoping to find something to do to get me started at least over Christmas break...How do I find out about meets like that? And would it be a jerk move to show up and ask people to lend me their guns? I don't want to be rude or anything, but at the same time, renting can be really expensive from what I've seen. I'm very inexperienced so far, and on the beginning edge of all this but I really want to get started.

CDT - yeah....I think I'd keep it in the holster. Loose in the car, that could have been bad.
 

MilProGuy

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Any thoughts or advice on OC under 18?

Good question.

It should be interesting to see what kind of responses you will get to your question.

Personally, I've never heard of a 17-year-old openly carrying a handgun in public; and would seriously doubt that it is legal.
 

eringdf

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Good question.

It should be interesting to see what kind of responses you will get to your question.

Personally, I've never heard of a 17-year-old openly carrying a handgun in public; and would seriously doubt that it is legal.

Whoops - major typo. I meant under 21, in the 18-21 age range. Sorry about that!
 

love_my_old_smiths

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Thought about SA vs DA, and caliber ...

Welcome to the forum, eringdf. There's a lot of good people with a lot of good advice here.

You asked about single action versus double action, and I'm not sure anyone gave you a answer about what the actual difference is.

In a single action gun, you have to pull the hammer back (usually with your thumb) before you're able to take a shot. The "single action" means that the trigger only does one (single) thing -- to release the hammer. If you pull the trigger without having previously cocked the hammer, then nothing happens. (of course, I say this with the usual caveat that you should *always* expect something to happen *every* time you pull the trigger; that's part of basic firearms safety)

In a double-action gun, you can cock the hammer before you shoot (just as you would with a single action gun), and for many people that's the preferred way to use it. But - you also have the option of pulling the trigger *without* cocking the hammer first. In that case, pulling the trigger will cock the hammer for you (if it isn't already cocked), and it will also release the trigger once the hammer has been cocked. When you fire a gun "double action", you'll have to use more force when you pull the trigger since it takes some extra energy to cock the hammer.

The justification for a double-action gun is as follows: in a crisis situation where you need your firearm, you'd hate to draw, aim and pull the trigger and have nothing happen, which would be the case with a single-action gun that hasn't been cocked properly. With a double-action gun, you'd still get a shot off even though you'd have to pull a little harder on the trigger.

The terms "single action" and "double action" apply to both revolvers and semi-automatic pistols.

I know of at least one gun range in the Triangle that rents guns; you might also do well to find a course at a local range to get you started. I wouldn't say that using a handgun is all that complicated, but it's sure not something you want to learn through the "trial and error" method -- especially if you've never shot a gun before. Even a small caliber like a .22 *must* be respected and treated like the deadly weapon that it is. There's no room for error.

In terms of the caliber you'll want to carry for personal protection ... you'll find varying opinions on this. I OC my Beretta .32 ACP because it feels like the right combination of size, weight, ease of firing and ballistic potency. I also spend a good bit of time at the local range to make sure I'm comfortable using it, and firing a few hundred rounds of .32 ACP doesn't beat up my hands like some of the larger calibers.

I regret having sold my Smith and Wesson Model 60 "Chief's Special" revolver that was chambered in .357 (but could just as easily fire .38 on long days at the range). That was about the perfect carry gun, and with .357 ammo was a potent self-defense weapon.

I used to teach photography, and one of the best pieces of advice I'd give my students about which camera to buy was to find one that felt comfortable in hand. Same with a firearm; everyone's hands are different and a handgun that's comfortable in my hands might not be comfortable in yours. At the end of the day, the handgun that's best for you is the one that you can handle confidently and fire safely.

Mike
 

tim12232

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Charlotte, NC
Welcome to the Forums, as others have said, the biggest issue may be getting the purchase permit. But Im not here to talk about that, Im here to talk about DA/SA and SAO. Sig Sauer, Beretta, H&K are some of the best known and most talked about DA/SA guns, I shoot and carry a sig p229 which is a a really nice gun. The draw back to DA/SA especially for someone a bit newer, could be training with the long heavy pull of the trigger for shot one fallowed by a short easy shot 2. I also will carry my Glock 19, this is the gun I recommend for alot of people wanting to get into it. It teaches basic rule 1 so well, keep the finger off the trigger, no external manual safeties to confuse the new, and relatively inexpensive to get into and should you decide you want something different or its not for you, you can get rid of a glock as easy as you got it!

Now.....once your a bit more comfortable, even after say....going to the range and renting some guns. Thats when I would talk the 1911 .45ACP!
Its a sweet old American workhorse of a gun, Tom Hanks even stopped a Nazi tank with one :cool:;) If you really start to enjoy shooting, and you will because its a blast, at some point you will end up with a 1911. You cant call yourself a gun guy....er...Girl if you have not owned a 1911.




Welcome once again.....

Tim
 

eringdf

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Sorry, I didn't read the rest of the posts in detail before I posted an answer for aosailor. My sincerest apologies to the lovely lady.

haha no worries!

Mike - Wow, great info, thanks! So double action can be used just like a single action, but if you don't want to cock it first it doesn't need it if you pull on the trigger harder? Did I understand that right? And when I'm home again with more time over Christmas break I think I will take a class. Any Raleigh gun ranges you would suggest?

Large Caliber Kick:
Also I reccomend carrying a voice recorder with you at all times that you carry.

Something with crazy long battery life? What do I look for when I go get one of these? Do I keep it on constantly?
 

eringdf

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Nov 18, 2011
Messages
24
Location
NC
Welcome to the Forums, as others have said, the biggest issue may be getting the purchase permit. But Im not here to talk about that, Im here to talk about DA/SA and SAO. Sig Sauer, Beretta, H&K are some of the best known and most talked about DA/SA guns, I shoot and carry a sig p229 which is a a really nice gun. The draw back to DA/SA especially for someone a bit newer, could be training with the long heavy pull of the trigger for shot one fallowed by a short easy shot 2. I also will carry my Glock 19, this is the gun I recommend for alot of people wanting to get into it. It teaches basic rule 1 so well, keep the finger off the trigger, no external manual safeties to confuse the new, and relatively inexpensive to get into and should you decide you want something different or its not for you, you can get rid of a glock as easy as you got it!

Now.....once your a bit more comfortable, even after say....going to the range and renting some guns. Thats when I would talk the 1911 .45ACP!
Its a sweet old American workhorse of a gun, Tom Hanks even stopped a Nazi tank with one :cool:;) If you really start to enjoy shooting, and you will because its a blast, at some point you will end up with a 1911. You cant call yourself a gun guy....er...Girl if you have not owned a 1911.

Tim

Shouldn't I rent a few before I buy? What are the biggest differences in the Glock 19 and the 1911? I was thinking about the Glock 19 and looking forwards to trying it out. And as a general rule, is one easier to carry than the other? I know I need to try it on myself too, but how do I do that without owning the gun or the holsters?

My dad is worried about someone getting the gun from me, if I was in a situation when having the gun would escalate to using a firearm by making it available...I know the holster is kinda tricky for someone to get the gun out of besides you, and you can push down with your elbow, but that doesn't necessarily mean no one can get it. Thoughts?
 

ncwabbit

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Milady, I believe in lieu of toddling to a range trying to rent a firearm, you AND YOUR FATHER (will explain in a moment) might wish to pursue a pistol course from the NRA type instructor. "normally" they have a myarid of firearms, revolvers and automatics & sometimes holsters for 'show and tell' to pick up and safely handle during class or another student in the class might have one of the 'macho' style firearms (macho = > 40 Caliber per se) for you to inspect. additionally, if one suits your fancy, you might be able to talk to the owner of the firearm and shoot a couple of rounds (with the insturctors permission) during the shooting portion of your pistol course. once this is done, you know have a better perspective of what u want to rent and can confidently go to the range and ask if they have the same or similar pistol for you to run rounds through. I feel you will benefit from the 8 hours of instruction and the cost is minimal.

Now, my comment of your father going w/you to the class is two fold and trust me will save a lot of "discussions" (read arguments) between you both in the future...1) you will both hear the same course material & class discussiion (class questions and instructor responses) as well as both handle and fire the same firearms on the range. 2) it will ensure you father is not working from 'urban myths' on gun handling as well as the 'current law of the land'. What this activity will do is eliminate any 'you said the instructor said' discussions verses what your father believes is 'reality' from his 'training' and past firearm experiences. This avenue will allow you both to enjoy your firearm(s) experiences and get you both out to the range doing what a lot of families have discovered...shooting on the range and other firearm related activities is fun.

your fun w/firearms is just beginning and always remember 'Now this is not the end. It is not even the beginning of the end. But it is, perhaps, the end of the beginning.' Sir Winston Churchill, Speech in November 1942 ...

wabbit
 

eringdf

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That's very good advice, and I'll definitely talk to him about it!

What do you say to the "someone could steal your gun and kill someone with it" argument? We are not in a heated argument or anything but just exploring the idea and I want my family to be comfortable with it. Taking my dad to the range and to a class sounds like a fantastic idea if I can get him to go. My uncle has guns and hunts, and we are not at all anti-gun, but my dad is still concerned that I could provide someone with the means to escalate a situation.
 

ncwabbit

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Milady, the pistol course will go a long way in alleviating your father's concern and might eliminate the ‘what if’ question and answer discussions. Now to play out the ‘what if’ scenario you mentioned… realistically, if u r diminutive in stature and if you get caught off guard, a bad guy who is of sufficient stature could knock you to your derriere and take your firearm.

Now Milady, I stand six two, two thirty five and ‘if’ I get caught off guard and a bad guy who caught me off guard could knock me to my derriere and take my firearm…(trust me when I say, at that point he better be willing to shoot to kill as he has now really PMO!!) I of course have anticipated this what if’ and practiced reaching for my 360pd on my ankle to level the my survival chances back to my favor.

You can play ‘what ifs’ till the zombie apocalypse and it is good to do so, to a point...but you also need to examine stats to see if the actual ‘what if’ will actually play out. For example if you are carrying in ‘good neighborhoods’ your chances of being surprised and knocked down are slim to.... If you ‘cruise’ bad neighborhoods then of course the chance goes up. to compensate for this risk, if you stop for gas in a bad neighborhood then your ‘OMG’ I could get knocked to the ground by someone so I need extra vigilance mental state should kick in immediately so you are on alert mode instantly and watching the area around you like a hawk.

Bottom line you keep try to keep out of the 'bad areas', vigilance of your surroundings, and you practice, like i do drawing from my ankle to mimimize the 'what if' of being caught off guard.

Hopefully this provides further insight and reinforces the rationale mentioned previously to invite your father to your gun course.

wabbit

ping me privately at your leisure milady...
 
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eringdf

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Thank you sir! Much appreciated. I think the only pending questions at this point are:

- What are the biggest differences in the Glock 19 and the 1911? I was thinking about the Glock 19 and looking forwards to trying it out.
And as a general rule, is one easier to carry than the other? I know I need to try it on myself too, but how do I do that without owning the gun or the holsters?
- Voice recorders:
Something with crazy long battery life? What do I look for when I go get one of these? Do I keep it on constantly?
 

bc.cruiser

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- Voice recorders:
Something with crazy long battery life? What do I look for when I go get one of these? Do I keep it on constantly?

I use one from WalMart, an Olympus 7000. It has all day capability. Turn it on, set to record, lock the controls (so it doesn't get accidentally turned off). Have it on all the time you are carrying. If nothing happens, erase everything at the end of the day.
Remember, you can record any conversation of which you are a party without telling anyone. It is illegal to covertly record others' conversations. Nobody can require you to stop recording whatever you are involved in; simply don't be obvious about it.
If you have a cell phone with record capability you can do the same thing although battery life won't be as long. If the phone has a lock code that will keep someone else from erasing what you have already even if they can stop further recording.

Follow the advice given above about finding out what works for you, training, and practicing, and enjoy.
 

Carry24/7

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I have a Sony recorder from Walmart. Cost $60 and at the highest quality recording has 23 hrs of record time with an SD card slot to expand that time. Runs on two AA batteries and I have over 24 hrs of recording on it and the battery meter is still full. This could also come in handy for recording your classes as well to study later.
 

eringdf

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Ok cool. Bummer that everything related to having a gun is expensive...makes sense though. Oh well.

I just asked my dad if we could take a handgun course sometime. I think I freaked him out because I'd discussed concealed and open carry a little before and he read it as "hey, can I get a gun soon?" He wanted to know why I wanted one and I said self-defense...No, I'm not paranoid, but why wait til you need it? Hopefully he will go with me.

Back to gun questions... what about Glock 19 vs. 1911? Assuming my hand can handle the bulky Glock.
 
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Carry24/7

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Ok cool. Bummer that everything related to having a gun is expensive...makes sense though. Oh well.

I just asked my dad if we could take a handgun course sometime. I think I freaked him out because I'd discussed concealed and open carry a little before and he read it as "hey, can I get a gun soon?" He wanted to know why I wanted one and I said self-defense...No, I'm not paranoid, but why wait til you need it? Hopefully he will go with me.

Back to gun questions... what about Glock 19 vs. 1911? Assuming my hand can handle the bulky Glock.

Well the Glock 19 is a 9mm and the 1911 is a 45. And as far as your hands and the Glock I have small hands and handle the Glock just fine.
 

eringdf

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Well the Glock 19 is a 9mm and the 1911 is a 45. And as far as your hands and the Glock I have small hands and handle the Glock just fine.

Okay, stupid question alert!! :uhoh:

So most of the guns you can tell like how strong they are by caliber. And then sometimes people say by millimeter. Help! What is the difference between 9mm and .45? Sorry for the dumb question haha
 

chiefjason

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Shouldn't I rent a few before I buy?


Absolutely! As far a Glock v 1911, the Glock is easier to operate IMO with no external safety. With the 1911 you will just have to get use to the actions of flipping the safety as you draw. No real huge issue there. Any gun with an external safety would require the same thing. My wife is a smaller lady. She has a Springfield XD sc 9mm that she absolutely loves. But it's a bit too big for her to CC and she will not OC. She handles it and shoots it well and likes it better than my G19. Both of these are double stacked 9mm's, meaning they hold rounds staggered almost side by side in the magazine. If you need a smaller grip you can go to a single stack handgun. We are currently looking at a Kahr 9mm for her to CC.

Okay, stupid question alert!! :uhoh:

So most of the guns you can tell like how strong they are by caliber. And then sometimes people say by millimeter. Help! What is the difference between 9mm and .45? Sorry for the dumb question haha

Here is a chart for cartridges, both rifle and pistol. Maybe a visual will help. Any caliber designated with a decimal point is just measured in inches instead of millimeters.

http://pinkhandguns.com/bullet-caliber-chart-definition/
 
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love_my_old_smiths

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And then sometimes people say by millimeter. Help! What is the difference between 9mm and .45? Sorry for the dumb question haha

Both of those numbers refer to the diameter of the bullet. In the case of a 9mm, the measurement is given using metric. 9mm is about the equivalent of 0.35 inches. Obviously, .45 is larger.

The diameter of the bullet is just one part of the equation, though -- so you can't assume that a .45 is more powerful than a 9mm (which it is, by the way - but for other reason).

The "1911" refers to the M1911 pistol designed by John Browning just before WW1. It set the standard for a class of semiautomatic pistols, and there are many companies today that still produce handguns based on the M1911 design. When you talk about a 1911, you're not talking about one specific gun from one manufacturer ...

The Glock 17 is a specific model made by Glock that is chambered in 9mm. It's been a staple of the law enforcement and personal defense community. Glock's guns are famous for their durability and simplicity and use of composites (plastics) in their design. I don't find them particularly pleasing to look at, but I can't argue with their phenomenal track record of reliability.

So double action can be used just like a single action, but if you don't want to cock it first it doesn't need it if you pull on the trigger harder?

Exactly correct.

One more thought ... with all due respect to the discussion about 1911's and Glocks (and other semiautomatic handguns), I'd take a long hard look at a revolver. They're simpler and typically more reliable than semiautos (since they don't have a loading mechanism to jam), and they can be a little easier for a beginner (especially when it comes to cleaning). I really can't speak highly of my old Smith and Wesson Model 60 enough, and it made a great piece for carrying (either OC or CC).

Mike
 
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