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Thread: Bloomberg killed the 1st Amendment

  1. #1
    Regular Member HandyHamlet's Avatar
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    Bloomberg killed the 1st Amendment

    You only work for the press if the city of NY says so. And you will still be arrested. Bold print by me. What does the word "treason" mean again?

    Bloomberg Spokesperson Admits Arresting Credentialed Reporters, Reading The Awl

    By Megan McCarthy 11/17 8:23pm


    To: Interested Parties
    From: Stu Loeser
    Re: Just 5 of the “26 arrested reporters” are actually credentialed reporters
    Date: Thursday, November 17, 2011

    Like all of you, I’ve heard and read many reports of reporters who supposedly were wearing valid NYPD press credentials, yet allegedly encountered problems on the streets of New York. Like some of you, I had those stories in mind when I read The Awls’ rundown of “The 25 26 Arrested Reporters and What They Do.” (In case you missed it, that piece, that piece is linked here.)

    Not being familiar with many of the media outlets for which The Awl says these reporters work, I had the list of “26 arrested reporters” checked against the roster of reporters who hold valid NYPD press passes.

    You can imagine my surprise when we found that only five of the 26 arrested reporters actually have valid NYPD-issued press credentials. Note that we didn’t check – and don’t really care for the sake of this exercise – if the reporter’s credential lists the media outlet for which he or she currently works.

    One more thing. Of the five reporters with valid press credentials who were arrested, three were arrested for trespassing and had their arrest voided. As the Associated Press and others reported, there’s no doubt that these personnel – and others – were in fact trespassing. There’s no question that protesters sliced open a chain link fence and tried to take over private property.

    This report was published by the AP:

    “Reporter Karen Matthews and photographer Seth Wenig of The Associated Press in New York were taken into custody along with about eight other people after they followed protesters through an opening in a chain-link fence into a park, according to an AP reporter and other witnesses. Matthew Lysiak of the Daily News of New York was also arrested at the park, according to witnesses and the Daily News.”

    Thanks for taking the time to read this.

    Stu
    http://www.observer.com/2011/11/bloo...ading-the-awl/


    List of arrested press that isn't?

    • Natasha Lennard: Non-contract freelancer, now not covering politics for the Times.

    • Kristen Gwynne: freelance writer and editorial assistant, Alternet.

    • Marisa Holmes: Documentary filmmaker and activist, OWS organizer.

    • John Farley: multimedia web editor, WNET/Thirteen’s MetroFocus.

    • Bob Plain: recently laid off, at the time of the arrest was a digital reporter for WPRO.

    • Jonathan Meador, reporter, Nashville Scene.

    • Susie Cagle, freelance artist and cartoonist.

    • Ian Graham, freelance photographer, RVA Magazine.

    • Kristyna Wentz-Graff, staff photographer, Milwaukee Journal Sentinal.

    • Stephanie Pharr, intern, Creative Loafing.

    • Alisen Redmond, Kenneshaw State University Sentinel.

    • Judith Kim, Georgia State University Signal.

    • Jonathan Foster, photographer, Rochester Institute of Technology's student Reporter Magazine.

    • Julie Walker, freelancer, NPR.

    • Jared Malsin, freelancer, East Village Local The Local East Village (a "collaboration" of often unpaid labor between NYU and the New York Times).

    • Unknown, photographer, Agence France-Presse.

    • Justin Bishop, photographer on assignment for Vanity Fair.

    • Matthew Lysiak, reporter, New York Daily News.

    • Karen Matthews, AP reporter.

    • Seth Wenig, AP photographer.

    • Patrick Hedlund, news editor, DNAinfo.

    • Paul Lomax, freelance photographer.

    • Doug Higginbotham, a freelance video journalist, TV New Zealand.

    • Ryan Harvey, musician, correspondent for Indyreader.

    • J.A. Myerson, freelancer, TruthOut.
    "Don't interfere with anything in the Constitution. That must be maintained, for it is the only safeguard of our liberties."
    Abraham Lincoln

    "Some time ago, a bunch of lefties defied the law by dancing at the Jefferson Memorial, resulting in their arrests. Last week, a bunch of them pulled the same stunt and - using patented Lefist techniques - provoked the Park Police into having to use force to arrest them."
    Alexcabbie

  2. #2
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    If I understand the issue correctly:

    1) press credentials allow a person access to areas otherwise restricted due to "public safety" or operational concerns
    2) the persons arrested were in a restricted area when arrested
    3) except for five (5) who were apparently swept up when the cops arrested everybody in the restricted area, none of the other "reporters" (and I am not doubting they were reporters, just noting that NYPD did not recognize them as such) were credentialed
    4) therefore the non-credentialed "reporters" did not have permission to be in the restricted area
    5) therefore the arrest for trespass appears to be valid - at least on the face of things.

    It appears that many "reporters" who are local to NYC did not bother to apply for press credentials. It also appears that many who are not local did not bother to apply. However, if the non-locals had credentials from their home jurisdiction I believe it would be appropriate for NYPD to recognize the credential as being valid and extend reciprocity (or at least recognition).

    I do not see this as Bloomberg (*spit*) or NYC killing the First Amendment. I see folks who refused to learn what the rules are and to follow the rules getting caught not following the rules - with the exception I noted above that out-of-town press credentials ought to be recognized as valid.

    As much as I dislike Bloomberg and most of what he does I am deeply troubled by behavior such as this attempt to vilify the man and his administration for this.

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

  3. #3
    Regular Member HandyHamlet's Avatar
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    I checked the Constitution to be sure. It doesn't say anywhere that the 1st Amendment can only be exercised after obtaining a NY press permit. Nor does it mention the word "credentialed".

    The rest is a joke right?
    "access to restricted areas" "public safety" "operational concerns" "non-credentialed"

    Let me say it this way. When you send your flunky out to make excuses, and the only thing you can come up with is "they didn't have NY press credentials"... Well that makes you the evil villain. A really really stupid villain. Enemy of the people. Enemy of the country. Enemy of the Constitution.

    I see folks who refused to learn what the rules are and to follow the rules getting caught not following the rules
    These are the rules. Allow me to refresh your memory.

    Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

    I'm deeply disturbed by the complete disregard for the Constitution displayed here and in NY.



    Lucy Kafanov, a reporter for the RT television network, said she was hit with a police baton while trying to film the protests. She told another reporter for her network that she had her press credentials clearly visible, but was still struck. She also said that she witnessed another reporter from the IndyMedia network being "slammed against the wall" and arrested.

    "It does not seem police are making a distinction between press and protesters," she said. Other journalists reported similar incidents.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/1...py_Wall_Street

    Occupy Wall Street 'Media Blackout': Journalists Arrested, Roughed Up, Blocked From Covering Clearing

    Reporter after reporter — many using the hashtag "#mediablackout" — tweeted through the night, saying that police had either blocked them from seeing what was happening or had acted violently towards them. Some correspondents were also among the scores of people arrested by police.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/1...le=Pat_Kiernan

    Here is tweet #7 on linked page:

    @poniewozik Our crews had a very difficult time moving around between 1 am and 4 am. Press passes seemed not to impress the cops on scene.


    Manhattan borough president Scott Stringer scolded his police department on Tuesday:

    I cannot remember any time this many reporters were arrested during a protest … [T]he brash manner in which officers ordered reporters off the streets and then made them back off until the actions of the police were almost invisible is outrageous.

    American foreign correspondents routinely put themselves in harm's way to do their jobs, in some of the most brutal dictatorships in the world. And their NYC colleagues deserve the freedom to make the same choice. Zuccotti Park is not Tiananmen Square.

    http://www.theatlanticwire.com/natio...ti-park/45047/


    Freelance radio journalist Julie Walker who was reporting for NPR says she was arrested on disorderly conduct while walking several blocks north of Zuccotti Park after covering the raid.

    “PEN American Center and PEN International today condemned restrictions on press coverage of police crackdowns on Occupy Wall Street demonstrations in New York and elsewhere, calling the arrests of journalists, the grounding of media helicopters and the restrictions on access to the Occupy sites ‘an obvious abridgement of the First Amendment right of all Americans to monitor official actions that clearly carry their own First Amendment concerns.’”

    http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2011/11/...tti-park-raid/


    "I'm press!" Rosie Gray, a reporter for the Village Voice, claims she told a female police officer.

    Her response: "Not tonight."

    At a press conference, New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg said police barred the media from covering the raid for their own protection, and "to prevent a situation from getting worse."

    Reporters from NPR and the New York Times were among the 200 people whom police officers arrested during the initial raid. Julie Walker, a freelancer for NPR, was arrested "despite the fact that she was wearing an NYPD-issued press pass." Police held her for four hours before releasing her.

    Jared Maslin, a reporter for the New York Times's local East Village blog, said he was arrested as he tried to comply with the police orders to move away from the area.

    On Tuesday afternoon, police arrested at least four other journalists who were tracking OWS protestors as they tried to gather at another nearby park. Among that group of arrested reporters were journalists from the Daily News and the Associated Press, according to the Times.

    http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/cutline/...232215675.html
    Last edited by HandyHamlet; 11-18-2011 at 08:11 AM.
    "Don't interfere with anything in the Constitution. That must be maintained, for it is the only safeguard of our liberties."
    Abraham Lincoln

    "Some time ago, a bunch of lefties defied the law by dancing at the Jefferson Memorial, resulting in their arrests. Last week, a bunch of them pulled the same stunt and - using patented Lefist techniques - provoked the Park Police into having to use force to arrest them."
    Alexcabbie

  4. #4
    Regular Member oak1971's Avatar
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    Bloomberg is a lefty. Obama has put the muzzle on the press as well, at least those who refuse to worship him. How about all the free press in the good old USSR? Hugo Chavez? Not shocking.
    In God I trust. Everyone else needs to keep your hands where I can see them.

  5. #5
    Regular Member HandyHamlet's Avatar
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    Jared Malsin's arrest video.






    Unconstitutional NY permit system controlled by the paramilitary.

    Notes on the NYPD Press Credentialing Process, from the (Ineligible) Editor-in-Chief of the New York Observer

    By Elizabeth Spiers 12:47am

    Aside from the question of whether credentialing by law enforcement is appropriate in the first place (inasmuch as it can potentially conflict with first amendment protections), the NYPD’s processes for acquiring credentials are, to put it nicely, Kafkaesque. To put it bluntly: they’re ridiculous.

    Visit the “press eligibility” page of New York Finest and you’ll find the following requirements:

    First-time applicants should contact the Press Credentials office (above) before completing their application.

    Applicants must be a member of the media who covers, in person, emergency, spot or breaking news events and/or public events of a non-emergency nature, where police, fire lines or other restrictions, limitations, or barriers established by the City of New York have been set up for security or crowd control purposes, within the City of New York; or covers, in person, events sponsored by the City of New York which are open to members of the press.

    Applicants also must submit one or more articles, commentaries, books, photographs, videos, films or audios published or broadcast within the twenty–four (24) months immediately preceding the Press Card application, sufficient to show that the applicant covered in person six (6) or more events occurring on separate days .

    http://www.observer.com/2011/11/nypd...2011/?show=all



    Harford County Circuit Court judge Pitt wrote: "Those of us who are public officials and are entrusted with the power of the state are ultimately accountable to the public. When we exercise that power in public fora, we should not expect our actions to be shielded from public observation. 'Sed quis custodiet ipsos cutodes'




    400 handcuffs: OWS 2-month birthday gift

    Published: 18 November, 2011, 10:34
    Edited: 18 November, 2011, 14:57


    In many cases, RT witnessed police not quite making any distinction between protesters and press representatives, with some of the latter having been arrested as well. On top of all this, an NBC news helicopter was once again asked to clear the airspace. With this ongoing media blackout, protesters say they have to use Twitter in order to follow the latest events.

    http://rt.com/news/protesters-police...niversary-629/

    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post

    As much as I dislike Bloomberg and most of what he does I am deeply troubled by behavior such as this attempt to vilify the man and his administration for this.

    stay safe.
    At a press conference, New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg said police barred the media from covering the raid for their own protection, and "to prevent a situation from getting worse."


    http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/cutline/...232215675.html

    Last edited by HandyHamlet; 11-18-2011 at 05:18 PM.
    "Don't interfere with anything in the Constitution. That must be maintained, for it is the only safeguard of our liberties."
    Abraham Lincoln

    "Some time ago, a bunch of lefties defied the law by dancing at the Jefferson Memorial, resulting in their arrests. Last week, a bunch of them pulled the same stunt and - using patented Lefist techniques - provoked the Park Police into having to use force to arrest them."
    Alexcabbie

  6. #6
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    OK, I'm the toady. Let's play!

    I checked the Constitution to be sure. It doesn't say anywhere that the 1st Amendment can only be exercised after obtaining a NY press permit. Nor does it mention the word "credentialed". The press can cover the story without credentials. They just cannot cross police lines without some permission slip.

    The rest is a joke right?
    "access to restricted areas" "public safety" "operational concerns" "non-credentialed" No, it's not a joke. The cops have a need to controll access to that area at that time. The press can either cover the story from outside the police lines or ger a permission slip. I already discussed the problem of failing to recognize an out-of-NYC credential but we can put that off till some other time.

    Let me say it this way. When you send your flunky out to make excuses, and the only thing you can come up with is "they didn't have NY press credentials"... Well that makes you the evil villain. A really really stupid villain. Enemy of the people. Enemy of the country. Enemy of the Constitution. I'm going to pretend that is a very generalized comment and was in no way directed at any specific person. That way you avoid the expense of defending yourself in court.


    I see folks who refused to learn what the rules are and to follow the rules getting caught not following the rules


    These are the rules. Allow me to refresh your memory.

    Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

    I'm deeply disturbed by the complete disregard for the Constitution displayed here and in NY.

    Presume that I am completely ignorant regarding the subject and explain just exactly how NYC and NYPD disregarded the Constitution and/or infringed on the freedom of the press.

    Or are you confusing "freedom of the press" with license to go anywhere you want and do anything you want regardless of lawfully imposed limitations?

    Lucy Kafanov, a reporter for the RT television network, said she was hit with a police baton while trying to film the protests. She told another reporter for her network that she had her press credentials clearly visible, but was still struck. She also said that she witnessed another reporter from the IndyMedia network being "slammed against the wall" and arrested.

    "It does not seem police are making a distinction between press and protesters," she said. Other journalists reported similar incidents.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/1...py_Wall_Street OK, the cops committed a tort and an unlawful battery. Hold them responsible for those actions by all means. But explain how this equates with "killing" the First Amendment, or even infringing on the freedom of the press.




    Occupy Wall Street 'Media Blackout': Journalists Arrested, Roughed Up, Blocked From Covering Clearing

    Reporter after reporter — many using the hashtag "#mediablackout" — tweeted through the night, saying that police had either blocked them from seeing what was happening or had acted violently towards them. Some correspondents were also among the scores of people arrested by police.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/1...le=Pat_Kiernan

    Here is tweet #7 on linked page:

    @poniewozik Our crews had a very difficult time moving around between 1 am and 4 am. Press passes seemed not to impress the cops on scene. OK, the cops seem to be failing to play by their own rules to the extent that they are not recognizing credentials. People often have difficulty moving around and getting a good view at a disturbance. They move to another vantage point. As for cops intentionally blocking their ability to observe and/or acting violently towards reporters - please explain how this infringes on the First Amendment, let alone "kills" it. Again, if the cops commit torts or battery hold them accountable. Either take names, get photos, or file against John Does #1 through #x.



    Manhattan borough president Scott Stringer scolded his police department on Tuesday:

    I cannot remember any time this many reporters were arrested during a protest … [T]he brash manner in which officers ordered reporters off the streets and then made them back off until the actions of the police were almost invisible is outrageous.

    American foreign correspondents routinely put themselves in harm's way to do their jobs, in some of the most brutal dictatorships in the world. And their NYC colleagues deserve the freedom to make the same choice. Zuccotti Park is not Tiananmen Square.

    http://www.theatlanticwire.com/natio...ti-park/45047/ If the police are acting in a way to prevent the press from observing their actions, thus being unable to report their actions, this is not infringing on the freedom of the press or "killing" the First Amendment. The press has, apparently, been able to report the actions of the cops in blocking their view and offering theories as to why the cops did that, and I presume the press will have the ability to seek redress for both the criminal and civil misbehavior. But will the press (through its individual members) do that? If not, why not?



    Freelance radio journalist Julie Walker who was reporting for NPR says she was arrested on disorderly conduct while walking several blocks north of Zuccotti Park after covering the raid. So sue for being falsely arrested. Did the cops infringe on her freedom to report that she had been arrested or that it appears to have been an illegal arrest? If so, how?

    “PEN American Center and PEN International today condemned restrictions on press coverage of police crackdowns on Occupy Wall Street demonstrations in New York and elsewhere, calling the arrests of journalists, the grounding of media helicopters and the restrictions on access to the Occupy sites ‘an obvious abridgement of the First Amendment right of all Americans to monitor official actions that clearly carry their own First Amendment concerns.’”

    http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2011/11/...tti-park-raid/ It sounds to me that the press as been quite able to report on the inappropriate behavior of the NYPD. I don't see where they have not been able to monitor official actions. I also do not see anything explaining how or why the media (or individual members) could not/would not obtain alternate vantage points. Maybe telephoto shots cause too much cropping for artistic concerns, or wide-angle shots create some linear distortion, but both have been sucessfully used in other places to identify those misbehaving. The job of covering a disturbance is not easy, but the demand for front-row seats with kleig lighting may be a bit over the top even for OWS reporters.




    "I'm press!" Rosie Gray, a reporter for the Village Voice, claims she told a female police officer.

    Her response: "Not tonight." As I've mentioned before - get the cop's name/badge number and deal with her through channels. This is not abridging freedom of the press or "killing" the First Amendment. It is official misconduct and needs to be addressed.

    At a press conference, New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg said police barred the media from covering the raid for their own protection, and "to prevent a situation from getting worse." I hope Bloombereg's PR and legal folks are having aneurisms over those words. I may be wrong but I understoof that using press credentals to cross police lines constituted a waiver of liability against the government in exchange for close access to events as they happened. If there was a reason to believe the reporters were exascerbaring the disturbance they could be removed. If the NYPD believed the OWS folks were acting up for the press they could have explained that as the reason for asking/telling the press to move back. But still none of that infringes on the freedom of the press - it just shows they do not have license to do whatever they want wherever they want.

    Reporters from NPR and the New York Times were among the 200 people whom police officers arrested during the initial raid. Julie Walker, a freelancer for NPR, was arrested "despite the fact that she was wearing an NYPD-issued press pass." Police held her for four hours before releasing her. Again - sue them and file official complaints. But this is not infringing on freedom of the press.

    Jared Maslin, a reporter for the New York Times's local East Village blog, said he was arrested as he tried to comply with the police orders to move away from the area. Again - sue them and file official complaints. But this is not infringing on freedom of the press.

    On Tuesday afternoon, police arrested at least four other journalists who were tracking OWS protestors as they tried to gather at another nearby park. Among that group of arrested reporters were journalists from the Daily News and the Associated Press, according to the Times.

    http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/cutline/...232215675.html Again - sue them and file official complaints. But this is not infringing on freedom of the press.

    Whiney brats that want unfettered license will usually suffer some uncomfortable consequences.

    There is ample evidence of inappropriate and illegal behavior by NYPD members, the NYPD administration , and the NYC administration. Hold their feet to the fire for that - I'll contribute to the legal fund if there is a need for money.

    But could we stop seeing Constitutional violations in everything? Some stuff is just illegal without actually violating Constitutional rights - even when the government is doing the illegal actions.

    stay safe.


    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

  7. #7
    Regular Member HandyHamlet's Avatar
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    So let me get this straight. The jist of your discussion is that journalists getting arrested for the act of journalism is not in any way in conflict with the 1st Amendment. But we should hold the NY accountable anyway. While you tell journalists how they should do their jobs.


    All while totally ignoring the fact that Bloomberg, in defense his actions, admitted to imposing a media blackout. Which as of yesterday is still in place.


    I think we are done here.

    But thanks all the same.

    Last edited by HandyHamlet; 11-18-2011 at 06:23 PM.
    "Don't interfere with anything in the Constitution. That must be maintained, for it is the only safeguard of our liberties."
    Abraham Lincoln

    "Some time ago, a bunch of lefties defied the law by dancing at the Jefferson Memorial, resulting in their arrests. Last week, a bunch of them pulled the same stunt and - using patented Lefist techniques - provoked the Park Police into having to use force to arrest them."
    Alexcabbie

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    just sorta wondering

    what any of this has to do with open carry and why it is in this forum

    ymmv


    roN

  9. #9
    Regular Member HandyHamlet's Avatar
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    No matter how incredible it may seem to the members of this forum, all our Constitutional Rights are intertwined.

    Members here protect themselves from the paramilitary by carrying recorders. Filming and recording is protected by the 1st Amendment.

    The 1st Amendment is publicly under attack.
    Last edited by HandyHamlet; 11-18-2011 at 07:50 PM.
    "Don't interfere with anything in the Constitution. That must be maintained, for it is the only safeguard of our liberties."
    Abraham Lincoln

    "Some time ago, a bunch of lefties defied the law by dancing at the Jefferson Memorial, resulting in their arrests. Last week, a bunch of them pulled the same stunt and - using patented Lefist techniques - provoked the Park Police into having to use force to arrest them."
    Alexcabbie

  10. #10
    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
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    When cameras are outlawed, only outlaws will have cameras!
    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggression—and this is hogwash."
    --Barry Goldwater, 1964

  11. #11
    Regular Member HandyHamlet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreamer View Post
    When cameras are outlawed, only outlaws will have cameras!
    I'd be laughing if every day citizens weren't being arrested for the crime of photography.

    I also find it interesting that if you switch the words 2A with 1A, and Firearms owner with journalist, the Pro 2A guys immediately use the same anti-2A arguments against the 1st. Like how you need a permit and credentials to take pictures, film, and write. Or "it's for your safety."

    Sad day for the Constitution.
    Last edited by HandyHamlet; 11-18-2011 at 09:27 PM.
    "Don't interfere with anything in the Constitution. That must be maintained, for it is the only safeguard of our liberties."
    Abraham Lincoln

    "Some time ago, a bunch of lefties defied the law by dancing at the Jefferson Memorial, resulting in their arrests. Last week, a bunch of them pulled the same stunt and - using patented Lefist techniques - provoked the Park Police into having to use force to arrest them."
    Alexcabbie

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    Quote Originally Posted by 6L6GC View Post
    what any of this has to do with open carry and why it is in this forum

    ymmv


    roN
    Welcome to the social lounge.
    "If we were to ever consider citizenship as the least bit matter of merit instead of birthright, imagine who should be selected as deserved representation of our democracy: someone who would risk their daily livelihood to cast an individually statistically insignificant vote, or those who wrap themselves in the flag against slightest slights." - agenthex

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    Regular Member Jack House's Avatar
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    I have to agree with Hamlet that preventing the press from reporting on an event in such a matter does conflict with the First. Just because they can report that they weren't allowed to report doesn't mean it's not happening. By that logic, Free Speech Zones are constitutional, or put another way, so are GFZs.

    Posted using my HTC Evo

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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    If I understand the issue correctly:

    1) press credentials allow a person access to areas otherwise restricted due to "public safety" or operational concerns
    2) the persons arrested were in a restricted area when arrested
    3) except for five (5) who were apparently swept up when the cops arrested everybody in the restricted area, none of the other "reporters" (and I am not doubting they were reporters, just noting that NYPD did not recognize them as such) were credentialed
    4) therefore the non-credentialed "reporters" did not have permission to be in the restricted area
    5) therefore the arrest for trespass appears to be valid - at least on the face of things.

    It appears that many "reporters" who are local to NYC did not bother to apply for press credentials. It also appears that many who are not local did not bother to apply. However, if the non-locals had credentials from their home jurisdiction I believe it would be appropriate for NYPD to recognize the credential as being valid and extend reciprocity (or at least recognition).

    I do not see this as Bloomberg (*spit*) or NYC killing the First Amendment. I see folks who refused to learn what the rules are and to follow the rules getting caught not following the rules - with the exception I noted above that out-of-town press credentials ought to be recognized as valid.

    As much as I dislike Bloomberg and most of what he does I am deeply troubled by behavior such as this attempt to vilify the man and his administration for this.

    stay safe.

    ^bingo.
    He's a Mayor, that's all. He couldnt harm the 1st, much, anyway...
    Some folks-legitimate reporters otherwise or not- try to use that "press creds" nonsense as way of getting around things they know they shouldnt. Shame on em, if they get caught doing so.

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    Quote Originally Posted by HandyHamlet View Post
    So let me get this straight. The jist of your discussion is that journalists getting arrested for the act of journalism is not in any way in conflict with the 1st Amendment. But we should hold the NY accountable anyway. While you tell journalists how they should do their jobs.


    All while totally ignoring the fact that Bloomberg, in defense his actions, admitted to imposing a media blackout. Which as of yesterday is still in place.


    I think we are done here.

    But thanks all the same.

    mm no. Try this: credentialed reporter or not, report away, just do it legally, and where/when you can. tresspass is tresspass. I, personally, dont think having a "cred" as a reporter should entitle anyone to some special privelage over anyone else. Not because of this particular issue, alone, either.


    Consider: you somehow get wrapped up in some situation or other, that becomes a media-hyped issue- and you get reporters camping out on your lawn, and trying to access, say, your fenced-in backyard for some pictures of you and your family-(as so often hapeens, and not just to celebs in gossip rags) -should these "reporters" get away with tresspassing on your property, just because they hold press creds?-or at least claim to? why the heck should Biff from Hotnews and BBQ website get away with that?

  16. #16
    Regular Member HandyHamlet's Avatar
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    What a surprise. The only ones who get arrested for contempt of cop are the RIGHTEOUS 2A supporters. Everyone else deserves it.

    What's that term the puffed up warriors around here call themselves as they pontificate about 2A laws? And in the same breath drink the kool aide and piss on the 1A? Because that's the lefty liberal smelly hippie one?

    Sheep dogs?


    Laughable.

    Koola aide drinking Sheeple like all the rest...

    Last edited by HandyHamlet; 11-19-2011 at 03:57 PM.
    "Don't interfere with anything in the Constitution. That must be maintained, for it is the only safeguard of our liberties."
    Abraham Lincoln

    "Some time ago, a bunch of lefties defied the law by dancing at the Jefferson Memorial, resulting in their arrests. Last week, a bunch of them pulled the same stunt and - using patented Lefist techniques - provoked the Park Police into having to use force to arrest them."
    Alexcabbie

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by HandyHamlet View Post
    What a surprise. The only ones who get arrested for contempt of cop are the RIGHTEOUS 2A supporters. Everyone else deserves it.

    What's that term the puffed up warriors around here call themselves as they pontificate about 2A laws? And in the same breath they drink the kool aide and piss on the 1A? Because that's the lefty liberal smelly hippie one?

    Sheep dogs?


    Laughable.

    Koola aide drinking Sheeple like all the rest...

    I have just as little sympathy for the yahoos with recorders provoking responses and reactions as some means of "protest" (or whatever point they claim to try to make) as these folks.Where's your point, exactly?

    And, if you are responding to the above- try directly answering the scenario-rather than blanket-generalizing your mistaken interpretations. Apply the same situation/case type to other scenarios.
    Do "journalists" (a doubtful claim, for some, at best) have more or better rights of access to someplace than you or I, just because they claim to be "reporting"?
    Last edited by j4l; 11-19-2011 at 04:02 PM.

  18. #18
    Regular Member HandyHamlet's Avatar
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    On my head?

    And yes, yes, yes.... we know you hate the fact that people can record, film and take pictures. You make it impossibly clear with every post. Thanks for proving my point while not comprehending the hypocrisy. Or anything else other than pepper spraying granny is fun.


    See, we have this thing called the Consti... oh forget it. Here's another glass of kool aide. Nice doggie.



    p.s. Google "contempt of cop". It ain't just for the God fearing, righteous, gun toting sheeple. Not that you care.
    Last edited by HandyHamlet; 11-19-2011 at 04:12 PM.
    "Don't interfere with anything in the Constitution. That must be maintained, for it is the only safeguard of our liberties."
    Abraham Lincoln

    "Some time ago, a bunch of lefties defied the law by dancing at the Jefferson Memorial, resulting in their arrests. Last week, a bunch of them pulled the same stunt and - using patented Lefist techniques - provoked the Park Police into having to use force to arrest them."
    Alexcabbie

  19. #19
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    For one, I never said I agreed with Laws in certain States against recording- I clearly dont.
    What I DO disagree with is people blindly giving others advice to do so, when those others reside in places where their State statutes make it illegal to do so. Folks taking such advice run the risk of facing more charges, and more legal troubles, as a result of listening to some yahoo 6 States away telling him it's ok to do so...

    As always though, folks who are so focused on wanting to protest or make statements or complain (no matter what the particular issue) always rush to object to being told they cannot do so in the manner they want to do so...


    There are perfectly legit methods of protesting, whining, and informing others of same-as opposed to always having tantrums in the streets and being attention ******. This IS 2011. There are more ways, methods and resources to accomplishing whatever goals you have than EVER before.All the more so with the internet.
    Leave having tantrums in the streets to peasants in (insert your choice of 3rd-world, middle-eastern shhithole here).
    I should think we are mature enough, and evolved enough,by now to not have to resort to such silliness.

  20. #20
    Regular Member HandyHamlet's Avatar
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    WTF?

    So you admit the arrested reporters may have actually been doing nothing wrong when they were arrested? And that their arrests, resulting from Bloomberg's direct order to black out the media, are in fact nothing more than contempt of cop charges? And that arresting journalists or any other citizen for filming, recording, and taking pictures is against the 1st Amendment?
    Last edited by HandyHamlet; 11-19-2011 at 04:44 PM.
    "Don't interfere with anything in the Constitution. That must be maintained, for it is the only safeguard of our liberties."
    Abraham Lincoln

    "Some time ago, a bunch of lefties defied the law by dancing at the Jefferson Memorial, resulting in their arrests. Last week, a bunch of them pulled the same stunt and - using patented Lefist techniques - provoked the Park Police into having to use force to arrest them."
    Alexcabbie

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by HandyHamlet View Post
    WTF?

    So you admit the arrested reporters may have actually been doing nothing wrong when they were arrested? And that their arrests, resulting from Bloomberg's direct order to black out the media, are in fact nothing more than contempt of cop charges and against the 1st amendment?
    No. And wishful-thinking wont get you around the reality of things, anyway.

    Simple: If they were or werent credentialed reporters-either way, if the wrong place to which they werent granted an access for whatever reason, and as a result are charged with tresspass-that's on them. That's not (somehow) destroying any amendment whatsoever. That's just them not getting their way, and them whining about it like little children. Be it for this, or any issue.
    I dont feel that just because someone has, or claims to have, some sort of "press creds" grants them any kind of special access to anything that isnt granted to them by whatever authority, just because they want it to be so.

    End story.
    Last edited by j4l; 11-19-2011 at 04:47 PM.

  22. #22
    Regular Member HandyHamlet's Avatar
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    I edited my post as you replied. But it doesn't matter.

    You will never support the 1st Amendment. Because your kool aid drinking has programmed you to equate the 1st with smelly hippies. You refuse to believe your freedom and 2A rights are forever locked with your 1A rights. So, thanks for proving my point.

    Evil - 2

    Constitution - 1


    WOOF WOOF!
    Last edited by HandyHamlet; 11-19-2011 at 04:53 PM.
    "Don't interfere with anything in the Constitution. That must be maintained, for it is the only safeguard of our liberties."
    Abraham Lincoln

    "Some time ago, a bunch of lefties defied the law by dancing at the Jefferson Memorial, resulting in their arrests. Last week, a bunch of them pulled the same stunt and - using patented Lefist techniques - provoked the Park Police into having to use force to arrest them."
    Alexcabbie

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by HandyHamlet View Post
    I edited my post as you replied. But it doesn't matter.

    You will never support the 1st Amendment. Because your kool aid drinking has programmed you to equate the 1st with smelly hippies. You refuse to believe your freedom and 2A rights are forever locked with your 1A rights. So, thanks for proving my point.

    Evil - 2

    Constitution - 1


    WOOF WOOF!
    The rest of you- and "mods" forgive me ahead of time- my tolerance for the ignorant and the dense is miniscule, at the best of times.
    So, here's the Special Ed version for our less-gifted audience:
    1) John Q. Reporter (self-claimed, but lacking any valid documentation thereto) goes to Point A in an attempt to "report" on -take yer pick of whatever.

    2) Point A, however, is declared-for whatever the reason may be/by whomever's place it is to make such declaration- to be "off limits" and is , by means of fence, gate, locks, doors, whatever-secured of access.
    3) John Q. "Reporter" decides to break said fence, gate, locks, doors, whatever, and enter the place anyway- feeling that his "credentials" however valid, or invalid- grant him the "right" to violate the secured -access, private property of another.

    4) John gets caught, arrested, and charged for tresspass due to #3, above.

    This is not a violation of any amendment whatsoever, regardless of whatever silly reasons John took it upon himself to commit the action.
    One has nothing to do with the other. Being told-DONT GO THERE- and going there, anyway- and then getting caught doing so, isnt in any way violating anyone's 1st amendment. There is nothing whatsoever preventing John from "reporting" on whatever from a different position where it's otherwise perfectly legal to do so.
    HOW is that difficult to grasp, exactly?

  24. #24
    Regular Member HandyHamlet's Avatar
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    WOOF WOOF

    That's a lot of mental masturbation there. But your fantasy of how things went down has no baring on reality.

    At a press conference, New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg said police barred the media from covering the raid...
    Last time I checked, tyrants can't supersede the Constitution. That's kind of why those old dudes wrote it. It's kind of cool. You might want to check it out one day.

    And lastly, thanks for proving my point again. All you sheeple calling for "press credentials" to exercise the 1st are the same who lament permission slips for exercising the 2nd.



    baaaaaaaaaaaaaah!
    Last edited by HandyHamlet; 11-19-2011 at 05:45 PM.
    "Don't interfere with anything in the Constitution. That must be maintained, for it is the only safeguard of our liberties."
    Abraham Lincoln

    "Some time ago, a bunch of lefties defied the law by dancing at the Jefferson Memorial, resulting in their arrests. Last week, a bunch of them pulled the same stunt and - using patented Lefist techniques - provoked the Park Police into having to use force to arrest them."
    Alexcabbie

  25. #25
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    No again. And twisting what's said, and even what isnt said, to try to fit into your agenda/tantrum doesnt in any way validate it at all.
    In fact, it renders it null.

    Re-read the above, slowly, without singling out the one or two words that fit your agenda.-I said repeatedly "whatever the case/issue".

    Any yahoo can go print himself up a "press cred" and "claim" to be a "freelance" reporter. It does'nt make them one. Nor, does it give them some special access to anyplace at all over that of any other citizen. THAT is the only point.

    By the same token, any yahoo can go print himself up a permission slip to carry in whatever place requires it by their local laws. Does that make the carrier legit-in the laws of that place?-Does it create any more rights for that carrier than any other person who wants to carry legally,but for whatever reason doesnt have the permission slip? No.
    Does that mean I agree with it? Not at all. But that's what it is, and there are penalties that I'd fully expect to face-like it or not- if I were to violate it.
    Not liking the laws doesnt make them any less valid, or any less enforecable. Not liking those who point that out, doesnt make them supporters of same.

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