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Thread: Cliff's notes on OC in St. Louis area please

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    Regular Member paul@paul-fisher.com's Avatar
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    Cliff's notes on OC in St. Louis area please

    At the last minute, my wife and I decided to go to St. Louis for the weekend to pick up some World Series Championship SWAG. We used to live in O'Fallon (MO) from 1992-2000 but were not active in gun issues at that time.

    So.... We both have our WI and UT license and permit respectively but I prefer OC. I do know that even if posted, I have to be asked to leave in MO before I can be charged, right? Do I have to show ID on demand? Where can I NOT OC?

    Any help would be appreciated.

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    Regular Member Redbaron007's Avatar
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    As a general rule...OCing in St Louis County is off limits. They don't allow it. Outside of that, you will need to check each individual municipalities codes to see what they say. There are several cities around STL that don't allow or will allow, but only with a CCW.

    Good Luck!

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    Regular Member paul@paul-fisher.com's Avatar
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    We will be staying in St. Peters. How is St Charles County, generally?

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    Regular Member Tony4310's Avatar
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    You are good to go in St.Peters ( ccw required ) and St. Charles county. I know one city in the county says NO, but I can't remember the name.

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    Regular Member paul@paul-fisher.com's Avatar
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    So... I see the AG's web site that shows WI doesn't honor MO permit, where is a list of the states that MO honors?

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    Quote Originally Posted by paul@paul-fisher.com View Post
    So... I see the AG's web site that shows WI doesn't honor MO permit, where is a list of the states that MO honors?
    Missouri honors permits from all other states and political subdivisions, resident or non-resident. We're very accommodating to CC visitors.

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    Regular Member paul@paul-fisher.com's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kcgunfan View Post
    Missouri honors permits from all other states and political subdivisions, resident or non-resident. We're very accommodating to CC visitors.
    Awesome! This will be the 1st time I am carrying outside of WI.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tony4310 View Post
    You are good to go in St.Peters ( ccw required ) and St. Charles county. I know one city in the county says NO, but I can't remember the name.
    Forristell has the old hunting law still on the books.

    Lake St Louis dropped the ccw requirement for their code, was a huge surprise, Doc and I searched it fairly hard wondering if they pulled a stunt and moved it or something but looks like they just dumped it completely. That was right before the picnic.
    John C. Eastman Associate Dean of Chapman University’s School of Law "the Second Amendment, like its sister amendments, does not confer a right but rather recognizes a natural right inherent in our humanity."

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    Regular Member xdmcompact's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redbaron007 View Post
    As a general rule...OCing in St Louis County is off limits. They don't allow it. Outside of that, you will need to check each individual municipalities codes to see what they say. There are several cities around STL that don't allow or will allow, but only with a CCW.

    Good Luck!
    Could you cite where you found the information that St. Louis County does not allow OC? I OC in St. Louis County all the time, St. Louis City OC is not allowed. There are some municipalities in St. Louis County that do not allow it but there are plenty that do.

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    Quote Originally Posted by xdmcompact View Post
    Could you cite where you found the information that St. Louis County does not allow OC? I OC in St. Louis County all the time, St. Louis City OC is not allowed. There are some municipalities in St. Louis County that do not allow it but there are plenty that do.
    He may have meant St. Louis City Proper.

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    you are on think ice here... st. louis

    Its in their ordances (ST. Louis City)... NO Open carry unelss you are on duty (poilice, FBI, CIA, military etc). Places like; Maplewood, (I think Clayton), I believe Richman Heights, etc, will lock you up if you OC. Even with a CCW.

    Yes, if the officer ask to see your CCW, show them. But in general, you can go almost anywhere CC (with your CCW).

    There just too many people here in this state that loves the idea (out of sight, out of mind). So be careful.

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    Regular Member paul@paul-fisher.com's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tony4310 View Post
    You are good to go in St.Peters ( ccw required ) and St. Charles county. I know one city in the county says NO, but I can't remember the name.
    Just to clarify. I can OC in St Charles county with a permit?

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    Regular Member mspgunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paul@paul-fisher.com View Post
    Just to clarify. I can OC in St Charles county with a permit?

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    As far as I can tell all of St. Charles Co is good except "FORISTELL". Don't quote me, these things change from time to time but most is OK.
    If you pull it, you use it. If you pull it and you don't use it, you've done some thing wrong and you might not get another chance. Think about it before you pack it!
    I worked 24/7 for 2A OC rights! Don't like what I did? Try it yourself, it was my full time job!
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    Regular Member mspgunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firedawg314 View Post
    Its in their ordances (ST. Louis City)... NO Open carry unelss you are on duty (poilice, FBI, CIA, military etc). Places like; Maplewood, (I think Clayton), I believe Richman Heights, etc, will lock you up if you OC. Even with a CCW.

    Yes, if the officer ask to see your CCW, show them. But in general, you can go almost anywhere CC (with your CCW).

    There just too many people here in this state that loves the idea (out of sight, out of mind). So be careful.
    At last check Claton is OK as is (or was) Ladue, Sunset Hills, Creve Coeur, and a few others.....
    If you pull it, you use it. If you pull it and you don't use it, you've done some thing wrong and you might not get another chance. Think about it before you pack it!
    I worked 24/7 for 2A OC rights! Don't like what I did? Try it yourself, it was my full time job!
    Certified NRA Range Safety Officer - RSO

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    Regular Member Redbaron007's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xdmcompact View Post
    Could you cite where you found the information that St. Louis County does not allow OC? I OC in St. Louis County all the time, St. Louis City OC is not allowed. There are some municipalities in St. Louis County that do not allow it but there are plenty that do.
    Quote Originally Posted by repomasterstl View Post
    He may have meant St. Louis City Proper.
    My bad....repomasterstl, you are correct.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mspgunner View Post
    At last check Claton is OK as is (or was) Ladue, Sunset Hills, Creve Coeur, and a few others.....
    Some people my really disagree with this statement, but it doesn't hurt. I say, its probably best to do one of two things...or even both. Call a local defense attorney in St. Louis County and/or call the police department of those cities. In general you will get a stright forward answer. Its either a "yes", or "no, but only this...etc".

    Because the laws change here to quickly and each city can make changes about every other month... I would hate for you to be told "yes" from us, and you get there, only to find out that the laws changed the other day. I can't remember the city, but I want to say Maplewood. Where a man walked into a Walmart (didn't do anything wrong), but those people didn't feel comfortble of him walking in wiht a gun and basically overnight changed the law for the city that NO CC's, even with a CCW.

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    Regular Member xdmcompact's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firedawg314 View Post
    Some people my really disagree with this statement, but it doesn't hurt. I say, its probably best to do one of two things...or even both. Call a local defense attorney in St. Louis County and/or call the police department of those cities. In general you will get a stright forward answer. Its either a "yes", or "no, but only this...etc".

    Because the laws change here to quickly and each city can make changes about every other month... I would hate for you to be told "yes" from us, and you get there, only to find out that the laws changed the other day. I can't remember the city, but I want to say Maplewood. Where a man walked into a Walmart (didn't do anything wrong), but those people didn't feel comfortble of him walking in wiht a gun and basically overnight changed the law for the city that NO CC's, even with a CCW.
    It has been said a hundred times never ask a cop or call the police department and ask if OC is legal, 9 out of 10 will tell you it is illegal even though it is not. Your best bet is to go to the police department and ask to see the weapons offense ordinances, and or verify any new ordinances with them in person. There have been numerous people lied to by the police about what is or is not legal, funny how they can lie and get away with it. Police officers tend to insert their opinion on the matter instead of telling you what is actually legal.

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    Calling and asking has produced basically two different results, a LIE and immediate moves to indeed make it illegal.

    Firedawg I am not sure what compels you to do so, but rest assured it has a negative impact on open carry and a lot of folks who have worked pretty hard wish you would stop doing it and stop suggesting others do it as it serves no purpose.
    John C. Eastman Associate Dean of Chapman University’s School of Law "the Second Amendment, like its sister amendments, does not confer a right but rather recognizes a natural right inherent in our humanity."

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    Regular Member paul@paul-fisher.com's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LMTD View Post
    Calling and asking has produced basically two different results, a LIE and immediate moves to indeed make it illegal.

    Firedawg I am not sure what compels you to do so, but rest assured it has a negative impact on open carry and a lot of folks who have worked pretty hard wish you would stop doing it and stop suggesting others do it as it serves no purpose.
    I do not ask any LEO. Spent most of the weekend in St Charles County. Open carried at Waffle house in O'Fallon, Mid Rivers mall, Buffalo wild Wings in St Peters and other places. I had read the law so left it in the car at Riverport Casino. Even carried in Bass Pro shops and Cabela's.

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    To all posters to whom it applies:

    Cites, please!


    I'm sure careful readers will quickly recognize there is no exception in the forum rules for requests for the "cliff notes" version of the law:
    (5) CITE TO AUTHORITY: If you state a rule of law, it is incumbent upon you to try to cite, as best you can, to authority. Citing to authority, using links when available,is what makes OCDO so successful. An authority is a published source of law that can back your claim up - statute, ordinance, court case, newspaper article covering a legal issue, etc.

    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/misc.php?do=showrules

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    Quote Originally Posted by paul@paul-fisher.com View Post
    I do not ask any LEO. Spent most of the weekend in St Charles County. Open carried at Waffle house in O'Fallon, Mid Rivers mall, Buffalo wild Wings in St Peters and other places.
    Watch it at the mall and waffle house, both used to be posted. I have not been to either as I am real hard core on "if you post a sign saying you do not want my monies, I will never give them to you" and if they ever gave monies to fight us, they have to give five times that amount to us in order to regain my business.

    Guess I am just simple that way.
    John C. Eastman Associate Dean of Chapman University’s School of Law "the Second Amendment, like its sister amendments, does not confer a right but rather recognizes a natural right inherent in our humanity."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    To all posters to whom it applies:

    [SIZE=3]Cites, please!

    [SIZE=2]
    Ain't sure if that was aimed at me or not, but no problem citing.

    Troy MO, a citizen contacted an alder-person inquiring on the legality, the next few days the alder-person pushed forward a bill to try and make it illegal. Due to the efforts of a lot of folks it was defeated despite the extremely late notice of the meeting.

    Not exactly the same but a fairly positive news article on OC put a burr under Paul Martin's saddle and the libtard moron he is managed to convince every city council he served as the city attorney for to put it forward for a vote and they all did as much and w lost olivette and ellisville in the mix, possibly others to come. And yes, I called the city atty for many local muni's a moron on a public forum.

    Edit: Anyone seeking a direct cite, please use the search function on this webspace and list the cities named, huge threads were dedicated to them.

    A key note, those ordinaces may or may not show in sullivan or municode, the cities seem to be way late but the threads have links to the meeting minutes etc.
    Last edited by LMTD; 11-20-2011 at 08:21 PM. Reason: tellin newbies where and how to find info if sought
    John C. Eastman Associate Dean of Chapman University’s School of Law "the Second Amendment, like its sister amendments, does not confer a right but rather recognizes a natural right inherent in our humanity."

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    Quote Originally Posted by LMTD View Post
    Calling and asking has produced basically two different results, a LIE and immediate moves to indeed make it illegal.

    Firedawg I am not sure what compels you to do so, but rest assured it has a negative impact on open carry and a lot of folks who have worked pretty hard wish you would stop doing it and stop suggesting others do it as it serves no purpose.
    I do appolgize, to be honest when I did talk to LEOs about it (here) they where honest to say it is ok with a CCW. I have stop asking all together now, even today, I went to a few places and didn't say anything at all. Like I said before, I'm still new to this.

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    Regular Member mspgunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firedawg314 View Post
    I do appolgize, to be honest when I did talk to LEOs about it (here) they where honest to say it is ok with a CCW. I have stop asking all together now, even today, I went to a few places and didn't say anything at all. Like I said before, I'm still new to this.
    Take your time, read, learn and hang out at some get togethers when we have them.
    I was new not too long ago, hang on, hang out and take this step by step so you, I and we don't have problems....
    If you pull it, you use it. If you pull it and you don't use it, you've done some thing wrong and you might not get another chance. Think about it before you pack it!
    I worked 24/7 for 2A OC rights! Don't like what I did? Try it yourself, it was my full time job!
    Certified NRA Range Safety Officer - RSO

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    Quote Originally Posted by Firedawg314 View Post
    I do appolgize, to be honest when I did talk to LEOs about it
    I love freedom, I tend to be frank as hell, it can come across wrong.

    To be clear, you owe me no apology sir, you are your own man and I do not believe in telling another how to live or expecting a response from making them aware of the results as I have a huge kiss my hind end factor myself when someone tells me how to live, including our government!

    I am actually glad/surprised to hear of your LEO response, more often than not it is a lot more like "well it is not illegal per se, but if someone complains about it, then we have to arrest you for disturbing the peace so it would be a lot better if you just covered it up" which is neither true or legal, but is incredibly common. It is also quite common for the police to be 100% clueless as to what the law is and they are not really held accountable for not knowing unless a citizen actually knows their own rights which scares the crap out of the crappy cops, does not really bother the good ones.


    We should meet up sometime and have a cup of coffee.
    John C. Eastman Associate Dean of Chapman University’s School of Law "the Second Amendment, like its sister amendments, does not confer a right but rather recognizes a natural right inherent in our humanity."

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