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Thread: It's official, MKEGal charged with 941.23

  1. #1
    Regular Member paul@paul-fisher.com's Avatar
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    Angry It's official, MKEGal charged with 941.23

    Just looked on http://wcca.wicourts.gov/caseDetails...w+Case+Details and MKEGal has been charged with a 941.23(2) violation.

    Time to pull out the stops, let's get State v Walls taken care of.

  2. #2
    Regular Member oak1971's Avatar
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    Crap. Here we go.
    In God I trust. Everyone else needs to keep your hands where I can see them.

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    Oh, ITS ON!!!!

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    MKEgal was carrying in the same way that the majority of people plan to Open Carry when driving in a vehicle.

    I have first hand knowledge that there is good visibility of her weapon from outside her car when she is Open Carrying and in the drivers seat.

    Those who support the 2nd amendment and their organizations, NEED to put their money out to suppoort this case.
    Last edited by E6chevron; 11-18-2011 at 12:44 PM.
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    Founder's Club Member Brass Magnet's Avatar
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    Looks like she's due for an appearance in court 11/22 at 1:30 PM.

    My argument would be two-fold:

    1. Walls is bad case law due to plain sight doctrine.

    2. The intent of the legislature with Act 35 is for loaded OC in a car to be legal without a license or they would have exempted only licensees.

    IMO the must probable outcomes are:

    1. Ruling that it's concealed for the purposes of 941.23 but that the legislature wanted to allow it. Dismissed and legislature told to fix it.

    2. Walls case law is thrown out as overly broad and inconsistent with other jurisprudence. Dismissed.

    3. A combination of 1 and 2.

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    Regular Member TyGuy's Avatar
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    I don't see where concealed is defined?

    Also, isn't it lovely that the police can hassle, arrest, jail you for hours, release you, and THEN decide what law you broke? What was their RAS to start with? Where's the 4th Ammendment here?

    Don't get me wrong, I like LEOs in general, as I have a long family line of them, but this just stinks!

  7. #7
    Regular Member XDFDE45's Avatar
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    What a load of .
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    My Castle Doctrine Law

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    Founder's Club Member Brass Magnet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TyGuy View Post
    I don't see where concealed is defined?

    Also, isn't it lovely that the police can hassle, arrest, jail you for hours, release you, and THEN decide what law you broke? What was their RAS to start with? Where's the 4th Ammendment here?

    Don't get me wrong, I like LEOs in general, as I have a long family line of them, but this just stinks!
    Defined in the annotations below 941.23

    RAS was prowling/loitering.

    "concealed" weapon was seen so search was initially legal under plain sight doctrine. See the contradiction? LOL

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    Super Moderator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brass Magnet View Post
    Defined in the annotations below 941.23

    RAS was prowling/loitering.

    "concealed" weapon was seen so search was initially legal under plain sight doctrine. See the contradiction? LOL
    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time.

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    Founder's Club Member protias's Avatar
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    It is on like Donkey Kong!
    No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. Thomas Jefferson (1776)

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    This is just the case that needs to get to at least the courts of appeal. Unfortunately to get there Krysta will need to be found guilty and none of us want that. The State is not about to let this case get to the higher courts. A catch 22 for us. As much as I hate to say it maybe this is one time the NRA/ILA should get involved.

    The prowling and loitering RAS sucks. The owner of the property gave permission for people to use his internet access point after hours.
    Last edited by Captain Nemo; 11-18-2011 at 01:15 PM.

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    Regular Member Marco's Avatar
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    Who's heading up her fund raising efforts in WI?
    "The Second Amendment similarly appears to contain an express limitation on the government's authority. If the Second Amendment is read to confer a personal right to 'keep and bear arms,' a colorable argument exists that the Federal Government's regulatory scheme, at least as it pertains to possession of firearms, runs afoul of that amendment's protections" (U.S. v. Printz, 1997) ~Clarence Thomas (SPJ)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent19 View Post
    Who's heading up her fund raising efforts in WI?
    A fund was started. Donations can be made via Paypal to: mkegal.legal@yahoo.com
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    Regular Member paul@paul-fisher.com's Avatar
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    This is the email I sent to the NRA-ILA:

    My friend and fellow NRA member, Krysta Sutterfield, has been charged with a concealed weapon violation for open carrying in her car, as per the procedure told to us by Darren Lasorte at Cabellas in Richfield. It seems that Act 35 didn't actually fix 941.23 so that non permit carriers can open carry in their vehicles. The DA is using precedent (State v Walls) set in 1994, before WI passed a pro-gun Constitutional amendment and while the WI Supreme Court was more liberal than it is today.

    I would ask that the NRA offer their resources to get this precedent overturned. Krysta was acting in good faith when she got arrested.


    Thanks!

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    Regular Member BROKENSPROKET's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TaurusToter View Post
    A fund was started. Donations can be made via Paypal to: mkegal.legal@yahoo.com
    That link keeps getting posted and all it does is open Outlook for me.

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    Super Moderator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TaurusToter View Post
    A fund was started. Donations can be made via Paypal to: mkegal.legal@yahoo.com
    Here is the button as a direct link:
    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time.

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    Regular Member BROKENSPROKET's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Nemo View Post
    This is just the case that needs to get to at least the courts of appeal. Unfortunately to get there Krysta will need to be found guilty and none of us want that. The State is not about to let this case get to the higher courts. A catch 22 for us. As much as I hate to say it maybe this is one time the NRA/ILA should get involved.

    The prowling and loitering RAS sucks. The owner of the property gave permission for people to use his internet access point after hours.
    Questiton:

    If one it found guilty, it can be appealed that the Courts of Appeals. If the Court of Appeals reverse the verdict, then the State can Appeal to the Supreme Court.

    But if one is found not guilty, the State cannot appeal it to the Court of Appeals, correct? That would be double jeopardy?

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    Regular Member paul@paul-fisher.com's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BROKENSPROKET View Post
    That link keeps getting posted and all it does is open Outlook for me.
    Well, yeah, it's an email address. You have to go to Paypal and send money to that address.

  19. #19
    Regular Member paul@paul-fisher.com's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BROKENSPROKET View Post
    Questiton:

    If one it found guilty, it can be appealed that the Courts of Appeals. If the Court of Appeals reverse the verdict, then the State can Appeal to the Supreme Court.

    But if one is found not guilty, the State cannot appeal it to the Court of Appeals, correct? That would be double jeopardy?
    Acquittals generally cannot be appealed.

  20. #20
    Founder's Club Member Brass Magnet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BROKENSPROKET View Post
    Questiton:

    If one it found guilty, it can be appealed that the Courts of Appeals. If the Court of Appeals reverse the verdict, then the State can Appeal to the Supreme Court.

    But if one is found not guilty, the State cannot appeal it to the Court of Appeals, correct? That would be double jeopardy?
    The State can appeal as well. Appeals aren't a new trial but rather granted due to a perceived error in procedure or law as I understand it. So double jeopardy doesn't apply.

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    Founder's Club Member protias's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paul@paul-fisher.com View Post
    This is the email I sent to the NRA-ILA:
    While I do think the NRA should get involved, especially for one of their trainers, I'll hold my breathe and eat my crow if they help.

    I don't have an unlimited amount of funds, but today was payday. More money sent. Hopefully it helps out MKEgal.
    No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. Thomas Jefferson (1776)

    If you go into a store, with a gun, and rob it, you have forfeited your right to not get shot - Joe Deters, Hamilton County (Cincinnati) Prosecutor

    I ask sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people except for a few politicians. - George Mason (father of the Bill of Rights and The Virginia Declaration of Rights)

  22. #22
    Regular Member paul@paul-fisher.com's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by protias View Post
    While I do think the NRA should get involved, especially for one of their trainers, I'll hold my breathe and eat my crow if they help.

    I don't have an unlimited amount of funds, but today was payday. More money sent. Hopefully it helps out MKEgal.
    I would suggest as many NRA members as we can send the same basic email asking for help though. The squeaky wheel gets the grease. I am planning on sending an email to GOA and 2nd amendment foundation as well. The most they can say is no.

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    Quote Originally Posted by paul@paul-fisher.com View Post
    This is the email I sent to the NRA-ILA:
    I was just reading Van Hollen's 2009 advisory memo and in my opinion it is speaking out of both siders of the mouth. Maybe this is also what they are looking at. Maybe this court case will clear up the smoke hanging over weather we can OC in the car now if the CC rulings have made that possible. Remember leos ( most of them) don't want us to open carry. Will send donation by paypal.

  24. #24
    Founder's Club Member protias's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paul@paul-fisher.com View Post
    I would suggest as many NRA members as we can send the same basic email asking for help though. The squeaky wheel gets the grease. I am planning on sending an email to GOA and 2nd amendment foundation as well. The most they can say is no.
    I've posted this in the Indiana Gun Owners forum as well.

    http://ingunowners.com/forums/carry_...a_vehicle.html
    No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. Thomas Jefferson (1776)

    If you go into a store, with a gun, and rob it, you have forfeited your right to not get shot - Joe Deters, Hamilton County (Cincinnati) Prosecutor

    I ask sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people except for a few politicians. - George Mason (father of the Bill of Rights and The Virginia Declaration of Rights)

  25. #25
    Founder's Club Member protias's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Law abider View Post
    I was just reading Van Hollen's 2009 advisory memo and in my opinion it is speaking out of both siders of the mouth. Maybe this is also what they are looking at. Maybe this court case will clear up the smoke hanging over weather we can OC in the car now if the CC rulings have made that possible. Remember leos ( most of them) don't want us to open carry. Will send donation by paypal.
    Regardless of what Van Hollen said in his memo, Act 35 is clear on the intention.
    No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. Thomas Jefferson (1776)

    If you go into a store, with a gun, and rob it, you have forfeited your right to not get shot - Joe Deters, Hamilton County (Cincinnati) Prosecutor

    I ask sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people except for a few politicians. - George Mason (father of the Bill of Rights and The Virginia Declaration of Rights)

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