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Thread: Open carry into Meijer, Walmart

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    Open carry into Meijer, Walmart

    Please reference the Law that says no carry without cpl

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    Michigan Moderator Big Gay Al's Avatar
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    Ok, you asked for it, here it is.

    750.234d Possession of firearm on certain premises prohibited; applicability; violation asmisdemeanor; penalty.
    Sec. 234d. (1) Except as provided in subsection (2), a person shall not possess a firearm on the premises of
    any of the following:
    (a) A depository financial institution or a subsidiary or affiliate of a depository financial institution.
    (b) A church or other house of religious worship.
    (c) A court.
    (d) A theatre.
    (e) A sports arena.
    (f) A day care center.
    (g) A hospital.
    (h) An establishment licensed under the Michigan liquor control act, Act No. 8 of the Public Acts of the
    Extra Session of 1933, being sections 436.1 to 436.58 of the Michigan Compiled Laws.
    (2) This section does not apply to any of the following:
    (a) A person who owns, or is employed by or contracted by, an entity described in subsection (1) if the
    possession of that firearm is to provide security services for that entity.
    (b) A peace officer.
    (c) A person licensed by this state or another state to carry a concealed weapon.
    (d) A person who possesses a firearm on the premises of an entity described in subsection (1) if that
    possession is with the permission of the owner or an agent of the owner of that entity.
    (3) A person who violates this section is guilty of a misdemeanor punishable by imprisonment for not more
    than 90 days or a fine of not more than $100.00, or both.
    History: Add. 1990, Act 321, Eff. Mar. 28, 1991;Am. 1992, Act 218, Imd. Eff. Oct. 13, 1992;Am. 1994, Act 158, Eff. Aug. 15,
    1994.
    The above assumes you DO NOT have a Concealed Pistol License.
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    Thanks much Thats what I was After

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    Regular Member Bikenut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajelias View Post
    Thanks much Thats what I was After
    "a person shall not possess a firearm on the premises of"

    Please take note that "shall not possess" means much more that just open carry of a pistol... it also means that those who do not have a CPL cannot have a firearm at all... cannot "possess" a firearm in any manner...

    And that "premises" means much more than just inside the building... "premises" means the entire property including the parking lot....
    Last edited by Bikenut; 11-19-2011 at 07:49 PM.
    Gun control isn't about the gun at all.... for those who want gun control it is all about their own fragile egos, their own lack of self esteem, their own inner fears, and most importantly... their own desire to dominate others. And an openly carried gun is a slap in the face to all of those things.

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    My friend claims the law is refering to by the glass establishments only

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    Michigan Moderator Big Gay Al's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajelias View Post
    My friend claims the law is refering to by the glass establishments only
    Your friend is wrong. The law clearly states that it is unlawful to possess a firearm in... "An establishment licensed under the Michigan liquor control act, Act No. 8 of the Public Acts of the Extra Session of 1933, being sections 436.1 to 436.58 of the Michigan Compiled Laws." Businesses that are licensed to sell packaged alcohol fall under the above. There fore, it is illegal to possess a firearm in Meijer, Walmart, or any other store that sells packaged alcohol.

    The list I provided is merely the list of prohibited places where you cannot Open carry if you do not have a CPL. The list of prohibited places for CPL holders is somewhat different.
    Big Gay Al
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    Regular Member Onnie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajelias View Post
    My friend claims the law is refering to by the glass establishments only
    AS BIG AL has said, he is wrong
    tell him to google MCL 750.234d for himself!
    When Guns are OUTLAWED, Ill be an OUTLAW
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    http://www.legislature.mi.gov/docume...58-of-1998.pdf

    That is the liquor control act, its hidden in there somewhere.

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    Michigan Moderator Shadow Bear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajelias View Post
    My friend claims the law is refering to by the glass establishments only
    Let us know how his case is decided. We're always looking for volunteers with the strength of their beliefs to take the battle to the gates.

    Choose your friends by the law school they graduated from, and if they will defend you pro bono.
    Last edited by Shadow Bear; 11-20-2011 at 08:30 PM.
    'If the people are not ready for the exercise of the non-violence of the brave, they must be ready for the use of force in self defense. There should be no camouflage.....it must never be secret.' MK Gandhi II-146 (Gandhi on Non-Violence)-- Gandhi supports open carry!

    'There is nothing more demoralizing than the fake non-violence of the weak and impotent.' MK Gandhi II-153 (Gandhi on Non-Violence)

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    IIRC Our Lawyer And CADLs Lawyer went to school together.

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    it's a terribly thought out law. Every non-cpl hunter in the state that travels with a long gun cased in his vehicle and stop's at a gas station, wal-mart, meijer, or any other establishment with a liquor license is guilty of violating the mcl, prior to shall issue, this included nearly every hunter.

    As a law maker, how can you create a law when you know that a huge portion of the population will violate said law?
    Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? (who will watch the watchmen?)

    I am not a lawyer. Nothing in any of posts should be construed as legal advice.

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    Michigan Moderator Shadow Bear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lapeer20m View Post
    it's a terribly thought out law. Every non-cpl hunter in the state that travels with a long gun cased in his vehicle and stop's at a gas station, wal-mart, meijer, or any other establishment with a liquor license is guilty of violating the mcl, prior to shall issue, this included nearly every hunter.

    As a law maker, how can you create a law when you know that a huge portion of the population will violate said law?
    "Did you really think we want those laws observed?" said Dr. Ferris. "We want them to be broken. You'd better get it straight that it's not a bunch of boy scouts you're up against... We're after power and we mean it... There's no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws. Who wants a nation of law-abiding citizens? What's there in that for anyone? But just pass the kind of laws that can neither be observed nor enforced or objectively interpreted – and you create a nation of law-breakers – and then you cash in on guilt. Now that's the system, Mr. Reardon, that's the game, and once you understand it, you'll be
    much easier to deal with." ('Atlas Shrugged' 1957)
    'If the people are not ready for the exercise of the non-violence of the brave, they must be ready for the use of force in self defense. There should be no camouflage.....it must never be secret.' MK Gandhi II-146 (Gandhi on Non-Violence)-- Gandhi supports open carry!

    'There is nothing more demoralizing than the fake non-violence of the weak and impotent.' MK Gandhi II-153 (Gandhi on Non-Violence)

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    Regular Member Taurus850CIA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lapeer20m View Post
    it's a terribly thought out law. Every non-cpl hunter in the state that travels with a long gun cased in his vehicle and stop's at a gas station, wal-mart, meijer, or any other establishment with a liquor license is guilty of violating the mcl, prior to shall issue, this included nearly every hunter.

    As a law maker, how can you create a law when you know that a huge portion of the population will violate said law?

    It also includes a large number of folks who buy guns at Walmart. They walk in LAC's, walk out criminals.
    "Fault always lies in the same place, my fine babies: with him weak enough to lay blame." - Cort

    Gun control is like trying to reduce Drunk Driving by making it tougher for sober people to own cars.

    Sentio aliquos togatos contra me conspirare.

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    1776"

    With freedom comes much responsibility. It is for this reason so many are loathe to exercise it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Taurus850CIA View Post
    It also includes a large number of folks who buy guns at Walmart. They walk in LAC's, walk out criminals.
    wow that is so true i can by a long gun but the moment i buy it im breaking the law .. now how does that work..

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    Michigan Moderator Big Gay Al's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yance View Post
    http://www.legislature.mi.gov/docume...58-of-1998.pdf

    That is the liquor control act, its hidden in there somewhere.
    If it is, it's buried real good. I saved that file, then tried searching for "firearm," "weapon," and finally, "pistol." The only word that showed up was "firearm" and that was in relation to the "bureau of alcohol, tobacco, and firearms." I don't think the prohibition is part of the liquor control act, (Unless it's been amended, and we don't have that amended version.) I think it's part of MCL 750.234d.
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    Regular Member Bronson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Taurus850CIA View Post
    It also includes a large number of folks who buy guns at Walmart. They walk in LAC's, walk out criminals.
    No they don't. 750.234d provides an exception for anybody possessing a firearm, sans cpl, if they have permission from the owner or agent of the owner. I'm fairly certain Walmart would consider it permissible for you to possess a firearm in their store long enough to complete your transaction.
    Those who expect to reap the benefits of freedom, must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it. – Thomas Paine

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    Regular Member Taurus850CIA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bronson View Post
    No they don't. 750.234d provides an exception for anybody possessing a firearm, sans cpl, if they have permission from the owner or agent of the owner. I'm fairly certain Walmart would consider it permissible for you to possess a firearm in their store long enough to complete your transaction.
    OMG. (facepalm) I just used permission Sunday. Pardon me while I go crawl back into my hole. (You have to admit, implied permission is a little scary)
    "Fault always lies in the same place, my fine babies: with him weak enough to lay blame." - Cort

    Gun control is like trying to reduce Drunk Driving by making it tougher for sober people to own cars.

    Sentio aliquos togatos contra me conspirare.

    The answer to "1984" is "
    1776"

    With freedom comes much responsibility. It is for this reason so many are loathe to exercise it.

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    Regular Member Bikenut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bronson View Post
    No they don't. 750.234d provides an exception for anybody possessing a firearm, sans cpl, if they have permission from the owner or agent of the owner. I'm fairly certain Walmart would consider it permissible for you to possess a firearm in their store long enough to complete your transaction.
    I know you know this Bronson... I'm just clarifying for those reading.... "on the premises" is not just "in their store"... "on the premises" is also the parking lot/property... and yes, I would suspect that any business that sold a firearm would be "implying" consent to possess that just now purchased firearm "on the premises" .... at least until the buyer leaves the entire property in a timely manner.

    But then I'm not an attorney so what I think (suspect) is a personal opinion.. not legal advice.
    Last edited by Bikenut; 11-22-2011 at 09:06 AM.
    Gun control isn't about the gun at all.... for those who want gun control it is all about their own fragile egos, their own lack of self esteem, their own inner fears, and most importantly... their own desire to dominate others. And an openly carried gun is a slap in the face to all of those things.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lapeer20m View Post
    it's a terribly thought out law. Every non-cpl hunter in the state that travels with a long gun cased in his vehicle and stop's at a gas station, wal-mart, meijer, or any other establishment with a liquor license is guilty of violating the mcl, prior to shall issue, this included nearly every hunter.

    As a law maker, how can you create a law when you know that a huge portion of the population will violate said law?
    The majority of citizens are irresponsible when it comes to voting for the folks who are going to make our laws.They do not know the people who they're voting for,what they believe,if they understand our constitutions.So when laws are passed there's only the hope they're constitutional and correct.Many a law has been passed without any understanding of whether it's right or constitutional.Thats why there's 20,000 gun laws as opposed to THE GUN LAW-2nd Amendment.From SIMPLE(2A) to TYRANICAL(too complicated even for lawyers and LE to understand)! Thats why our fight is so hard!NEVER GIVE UP,NEVER QUIT! CARRY ON!
    Today JESUS would tell me to sell my coat and buy two Springfield XD Compact 45acp's!

    NRA LIFER,GOA,MOC Inc.,CLSD,MCRGO,UAW! MOLON LABE!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Gay Al View Post
    If it is, it's buried real good. I saved that file, then tried searching for "firearm," "weapon," and finally, "pistol." The only word that showed up was "firearm" and that was in relation to the "bureau of alcohol, tobacco, and firearms." I don't think the prohibition is part of the liquor control act, (Unless it's been amended, and we don't have that amended version.) I think it's part of MCL 750.234d.
    I saw it in there the first time I read it, I just cant remember where. But I posted it to reference what the Liquor License is, because his friend thought it meant an establishment which sells alcohol by the glass. In there somewhere it references the different types of licenses and it briefly mentions an establishment that sells groceries or something along those lines. It can be interpreted as a grocery store and such.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yance View Post
    http://www.legislature.mi.gov/docume...58-of-1998.pdf

    That is the liquor control act, its hidden in there somewhere.
    What is hidden there?

    750.234d indicates no possession on premises that are licensed to sell alcohol. Obviously walmart meijer and any other establishment selling alcohol is requires to be licensed to do so. I don't understand what piece of the puzzle you are looking for inside the liquor control act.
    Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? (who will watch the watchmen?)

    I am not a lawyer. Nothing in any of posts should be construed as legal advice.

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    Michigan Moderator Big Gay Al's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yance View Post
    I saw it in there the first time I read it, I just cant remember where. But I posted it to reference what the Liquor License is, because his friend thought it meant an establishment which sells alcohol by the glass. In there somewhere it references the different types of licenses and it briefly mentions an establishment that sells groceries or something along those lines. It can be interpreted as a grocery store and such.
    Ok, that part is there. Just no mention of firearms. By the same token, 750.234d doesn't mention places that sell by the glass.
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    Quote Originally Posted by hamaneggs View Post
    Many a law has been passed without any understanding of whether it's right or constitutional.
    “We have to pass the bill so you can find out what is in it.” - Nancy Pelosi to the congresscritters voting on it

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    Regular Member Onnie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by griffin View Post
    “We have to pass the bill so you can find out what is in it.” - Nancy Pelosi to the congresscritters voting on it
    every time i see one of your posts i look over at your avartar and i start to sweat. Your pictire brings back not so fond memories of me when I was 4 and I stuck my grandfathers keys in the wall socket and electrocuted myself! As a reminder to me and the other grandkids, he never painted the part of the wall that was blacked. 30 years later it still had the burn marks and copper pieces from the melted key on the wall and socket!

    To this day I can not even change a circuit breaker my wife has to do it, and plugging anything into an outlet takes a act of congress for me to do!


    thanks for the nightmares!!! lol
    When Guns are OUTLAWED, Ill be an OUTLAW
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    Quote Originally Posted by Taurus850CIA View Post
    OMG. (facepalm) I just used permission Sunday. Pardon me while I go crawl back into my hole. (You have to admit, implied permission is a little scary)
    I recall a discussion we had here, oh several years ago perhaps, pertaining to establishments where a non-CPL holder could OC and implied permission may come into play. I mentioned barber shops as an example.

    When a non-CPL holder enters a barber shop, sits down in the chair, the pistol becomes concealed when the barber places the apron over you. If Officer McGillicutty comes in for a cut and shave and then notices your pistol after you stand up from the chair, is there implied permission because you were not asked to leave or store your pistol in your car in the beginning? If the barber notices you're carrying before you sit down and says nothing, is this implied permission? If the barber notices you're carrying and says nothing, will he or she back you when McGillicutty questions you about the pistol?

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