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Thread: Purchase law, under 21

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    Regular Member altajava's Avatar
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    Purchase law, under 21

    A coworker who is over 21 wants to get his wife who is under 21 a handgun. I know at some level this should be legal but would this also be considered a straw purchase?

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    Regular Member carry for myself's Avatar
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    NO.

    if he is buying the gun for her as a GIFT. and it indeed is HIS money purchasing the weapon. it is a gifting. and not a straw

    however. if he is purchasing this gun FOR HER with HER MONEY in his name...........that is a straw purchase.

    he can also purchase the firearm himself for himself, then gift it to her. but if she in anyway is involved with the purchase it is a straw.
    i would rather run out of blood, breath and life. and die fighting. than run out of ammo , and die with my pants down -Tom Scantas

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    He can buy it - she can carry it.

    She can buy from a private party, but not an FFL, dealer.

    He can gift her.

    There is no registration of guns in Virginia (except machine guns) so there is no owner of record.

    As his spouse, she already has a community property interest in all of his guns unless there was a prenuptial agreement to the contrary.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Quote Originally Posted by carry for myself View Post
    NO.

    if he is buying the gun for her as a GIFT. and it indeed is HIS money purchasing the weapon. it is a gifting. and not a straw

    however. if he is purchasing this gun FOR HER with HER MONEY in his name...........that is a straw purchase.

    he can also purchase the firearm himself for himself, then gift it to her. but if she in anyway is involved with the purchase it is a straw.

    Also a straw purchase if she's a 'prohibited person' even if it's going to be a gift.
    Lower the crime rate by lowering the criminal survival rate!
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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    "Straw Purchase" is meaningless

    The term "straw purchase" has been so convoluted by the thousands of different opinions, that I honestly think the term is now meaningless.

    It only makes sense to talk in terms of what "actions" are legal and not legal.

    I think most of the descriptions of actions in this thread are correct, but the debate on whether or not you can call any of them a straw purchase is a waste of time.

    IMHO, of course.

    My belief is that the phrase was first used to describe purchases that were designed to get around legal prohibitions. Since then, the Feds have tried to re-define the phrase to cover purchases that are indeed perfectly legal. I suspect they just want to have their nose in all purchases...

    In any case... yeah, you can gift or loan a gun to an 18-20 year old, as long as they are not otherwise prohibited.

    TFred (who hates what the Feds have done to our vocabulary)

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TFred View Post
    The term "straw purchase" has been so convoluted by the thousands of different opinions, that I honestly think the term is now meaningless.

    It only makes sense to talk in terms of what "actions" are legal and not legal.

    I think most of the descriptions of actions in this thread are correct, but the debate on whether or not you can call any of them a straw purchase is a waste of time.

    IMHO, of course.

    My belief is that the phrase was first used to describe purchases that were designed to get around legal prohibitions. Since then, the Feds have tried to re-define the phrase to cover purchases that are indeed perfectly legal. I suspect they just want to have their nose in all purchases...

    In any case... yeah, you can gift or loan a gun to an 18-20 year old, as long as they are not otherwise prohibited.

    TFred (who hates what the Feds have done to our vocabulary)
    +1


    Just tell your coworker to buy the thing and quit worrying about it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    As his spouse, she already has a community property interest in all of his guns unless there was a prenuptial agreement to the contrary.
    Yes, my wife has reminded me of this from time to time.

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KBCraig View Post
    Yes, my wife has reminded me of this from time to time.
    Remind her under common law you may beat her with a stick no larger than your thumb.
    I remind mine of that often. She ignores me as usual, but I keep reminding.

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    Founder's Club Member thebigsd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    Remind her under common law you may beat her with a stick no larger than your thumb.
    I remind mine of that often. She ignores me as usual, but I keep reminding.
    Hmmm...would that be the length of the stick or the width?
    Last edited by thebigsd; 11-20-2011 at 09:36 PM.
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    Regular Member B. Reddy's Avatar
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    Picking a good gun?

    Quote Originally Posted by altajava View Post
    A coworker who is over 21 wants to get his wife who is under 21 a handgun. I know at some level this should be legal but would this also be considered a straw purchase?
    Hey, altajava, just wondering, do you know how your coworker decided what gun to get his wife? Did she try some out at the range? take a shooting class? ask her girlfriends?

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thebigsd View Post
    Hmmm...would that be the length of the stick or the width?
    That's a question for User

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    Regular Member altajava's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by B. Reddy View Post
    Hey, altajava, just wondering, do you know how your coworker decided what gun to get his wife? Did she try some out at the range? take a shooting class? ask her girlfriends?
    All window shopping, no range time yet. She chose a PX4 in 9 based on ergonomics, it felt good in her hand. Which is important. There may may have been a little "it looks nice" as well. When they started looking, he was leaning towards a .380 so I think they made a good choice.
    Last edited by altajava; 11-21-2011 at 09:22 PM.

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    Thumbs up Wife can open carry

    Under 21 your wife can NOT get a CHP but anyone over 18 can open carry in Virginia.

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    Regular Member JamesB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thebigsd View Post
    Hmmm...would that be the length of the stick or the width?
    I would recomend that it be translated as width... becaue if I'm going to try something like that, it's gonna be a damn long stick.

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    Activist Member Wolf_shadow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JamesB View Post
    I would recomend that it be translated as width... becaue if I'm going to try something like that, it's gonna be a damn long stick.
    +1000

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    Regular Member 45acpForMe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    Remind her under common law you may beat her with a stick no larger than your thumb.
    I remind mine of that often. She ignores me as usual, but I keep reminding.
    Remind yourself that you need to sleep at some point. ;-) Think burning bed....

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    Campaign Veteran roscoe13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 45acpForMe View Post
    Remind yourself that you need to sleep at some point. ;-) Think burning bed....
    Or Lorena Bobbitt (sp?)

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    Accomplished Advocate user's Avatar
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    No. It's not an illegal straw purchase unless she is legally prohibited from being in possession of a firearm.
    Daniel L. Hawes - 540 347 2430 - HTTP://www.VirginiaLegalDefense.com

    By the way, nothing I say on this website as "user" should be taken as either advertising for attorney services or legal advice, merely personal opinion. Everyone having a question regarding the application of law to the facts of their situation should seek the advice of an attorney competent in the subject matter of the issues presented and licensed to practice in the relevant state.

  19. #19
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by user View Post
    No. It's not an illegal straw purchase unless she is legally prohibited from being in possession of a firearm.
    Some FFLs will refuse the sale if you and your money are not the sole actor in the transaction - have seen such a sign on the wall of at least one Richmond gun shop.

    BTW - would be good to see you at VCDL's Operation Campus Safety on Dec. 1st at VCU. Maybe can do?
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    As an employee at a place that sells firearms, if you even mention that it will be for someone else, we will decline to sell and report it to all surrounding stores. Its policy for our safety (from the wrath of the ATF)

    You buy it for yourself, then decide later, after the transaction, that you want to pass it on to your legal-to-own wife.

  21. #21
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DJEEPER View Post
    As an employee at a place that sells firearms, if you even mention that it will be for someone else, we will decline to sell and report it to all surrounding stores. Its policy for our safety (from the wrath of the ATF)

    You buy it for yourself, then decide later, after the transaction, that you want to pass it on to your legal-to-own wife.
    While I understand the concern, just not to that degree.

    Applying the rules that way induces the otherwise legal buyer to falsely file the forms if they are intend to gift the gun.

    Refusing the sale for any reason is within bounds, BUT reporting to other stores such information could IMO expose your employer to potential liability - that seems one bridge too far. I've done nothing wrong and you would harm me? Seems like there is a very sticky wicket there.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  22. #22
    Regular Member carry for myself's Avatar
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    Luckily in my state our two large firearms retailers are not too picky about who buys what with what. Only for whom. I frequently buy myself guns with my girlfriends credit cards, or she buys me guns with her cards, I buy her guns with my cards. As long as the person the gun is intended for fills out the paperwork they could care less haha.

    Although I do recall one time when I brought my sister with me to ktp when I was picking up a millenium pro, and they haulted the sale on straw policy because she made a comment about how excited she was to shoot it. But the manager john fixed that quickly.
    i would rather run out of blood, breath and life. and die fighting. than run out of ammo , and die with my pants down -Tom Scantas

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    Regular Member 45acpForMe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DJEEPER View Post
    As an employee at a place that sells firearms,...
    Since when did the bike shop start selling guns? I am going to have to pay it a visit now!

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    Regular Member wylde007's Avatar
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    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by 45acpForMe View Post
    Since when did the bike shop start selling guns? I am going to have to pay it a visit now!
    Seconded.
    The quiet war has begun, with silent weapons
    And the newest slavery is to keep the people poor, and stupid
    Novos ordo seclorum ~ Mustaine

    Never argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wylde007 View Post
    Seconded.
    Never heard of Guns in Bars before?

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