.22 cal is best for self defense

I teach Hunter Education classes. Part of the class involves rifle shooting with .22's. It's very, very common for the students to have misfires. We always tell the students to bring extra ammo, because someone is likely to need more rounds to offset the ones that don't go off.

It's fun to shoot .22's, but they are not always going to go off. I can't remember who said it, but the loudest sound you could ever hear in a self-defense situation is "click."

Of course, besides not being reliable, .22's are woefully inadequate in stopping an attack. Yes, they're better than nothing, but I would lots rather have something else available.

UtahRSO said:

I teach Hunter Education classes. Part of the class involves rifle shooting with .22's. It's very, very common for the students to have misfires. We always tell the students to bring extra ammo, because someone is likely to need more rounds to offset the ones that don't go off.

It's fun to shoot .22's, but they are not always going to go off. I can't remember who said it, but the loudest sound you could ever hear in a self-defense situation is "click."

Of course, besides not being reliable, .22's are woefully inadequate in stopping an attack. Yes, they're better than nothing, but I would lots rather have something else available.

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I have a sig mosquito that goes bang every time I shoot CCI mini mags in it..... and I have cycled 200+ CCI's in it.

But I know what you're saying, I got a wholesale box of federal that only cycles the gun half the time.



@OP: If recoil is your only concern, plenty of people can load you a 9mm, .40, .45 or any other caliber so that the slug just makes it out of the barrel.

But the reason we don't do that is because we know how to handle our guns and like having enough bang to reliably put someone down.

And like what was said: What do you do when your target has multiple layers of clothes on? Or the off chance that you have to shoot through something?

My tested showed only 3 out of 11 .22s made it through a car door fired from a pistol. It was more me just having fun, but it proved something to me.

SickPythons said:

Now do the same thing with your .22

Still feel good about your .45??

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The problem is that you all assume that you're going to hit your target. It is much easier to hit and keep hitting with a smaller caliber.

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It sounds like you're assuming that the .22 is a magical heat seeking bullet that requires no aim or skill. Just because it has little recoil doesn't make you GOOD with the gun.

My problem is with the whole backing up while shooting thing. Who taught you that? Just curious.

Mas49.56 said:

My problem is with the whole backing up while shooting thing. Who taught you that? Just curious.

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bro, you probably never heard of it because it's only for self defense pro's who carry .22LR as their primary...******* n00b.


EDIT: Just kidding mas49 XD

09jisaac,

I have a Sig Mosquito as well, it jams every twenty shots or so regardless of ammo. Plus 200+ rounds is not that much. I have put 1000+ rounds through one od my 1911s with NO issues.

thebigsd said:

09jisaac,

I have a Sig Mosquito as well, it jams every twenty shots or so regardless of ammo. Plus 200+ rounds is not that much. I have put 1000+ rounds through one od my 1911s with NO issues.

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No, I never said it was a lot. I am saying to date, with CCI ammo it has never failed me and I would be willing to bet me life (if I needed to) that it would empty the mag if I needed it to.

And I wasn't arguing that the .22 is a defensive gun either. I leave it at home to take my M&P, which I have put 1000 or so rounds through it with few problems, and only with old ammo.

I'll admit that I'd rather take a .45 in the arm than a .22 between the eyes. Having said that, eight .22's to the chest won't stop me from putting one .45 to the head before I bleed out.

my $.02

Mas49.56 said:

My problem is with the whole backing up while shooting thing. Who taught you that? Just curious.

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Well I'm not planning on standing completely still, put one hand in my back pocket, breath, relax, aim, squeeze if I need to use a gun for self-defense.
It's good practice to keep your feet moving when preparing for these types of situations. I'm not saying that you need to do commando rolls around your range but you certainly shouldn't be standing still.


Look.. I made my case. I hope some of the people here actually go out on the range and at least try the exercise out. It seems that most of the crowd here would have a hard time being objective about it but that was to be expected.

I'll be on the range tomorrow. Happy shooting.

Perhaps. But just about anyone can shoot well with a .22 or .25 -rapid-fire or otherwise. Yes, it's low-recoil,etc.
But not as a primary defensive side-arm. And def. not in these winter months that are upon us soon, when folks are wearing layers.
The bullet still has to get through all of that and do the trick.

I'll give a little bit of a personal example of experience with this- as the GSV, in this case.
About 20+ years ago, in NY, Id gotten off of work late and had to do some shopping on my way home.
Dead of winter, freezing out, so Im wearing a t-shirt, thermal undershirt, a sweatshirt, and a leather bike jacket.
Some punk kid comes walking up to me while I have my arms loaded down with groceries, and puts a nickel-finished Raven .25 smack up against the center of my chest telling me "give it up" (-he wanted my leather jacket).
I looked down, saw what pistol it was and laughed at him. Told him "go ahead".

He did- point blank- straight into my chest. I never even felt the muzzle blast. The round never made it past the leather or even the zipper behind it.The look on his face- (no doubt expecting some Hollywood-style result like me flying 5 ft. backwards to my death) PRICELESS. He withdrew the pistol and stood there looking at it like WTF?
I dropped the groceries I was carrying and beat the ever-lasting crap out of him.

Guess where that pistol is right now? To the immediate left of the keyboard I type this on. I've had it ever since.
Dont ask where the kid is right now. Fuggedaboutit.

Would I ever seriously plan on using it as a primary defensive arm-no matter how well I can shoot with it? Heck no.
That's what the .45 is for.

j4l said:

Perhaps. But just about anyone can shoot well with a .22 or .25 -rapid-fire or otherwise. Yes, it's low-recoil,etc.
But not as a primary defensive side-arm. And def. not in these winter months that are upon us soon, when folks are wearing layers.
The bullet still has to get through all of that and do the trick.

I'll give a little bit of a personal example of experience with this- as the GSV, in this case.
About 20+ years ago, in NY, Id gotten off of work late and had to do some shopping on my way home.
Dead of winter, freezing out, so Im wearing a t-shirt, thermal undershirt, a sweatshirt, and a leather bike jacket.
Some punk kid comes walking up to me while I have my arms loaded down with groceries, and puts a nickel-finished Raven .25 smack up against the center of my chest telling me "give it up" (-he wanted my leather jacket).
I looked down, saw what pistol it was and laughed at him. Told him "go ahead".

He did- point blank- straight into my chest. I never even felt the muzzle blast. The round never made it past the leather or even the zipper behind it.The look on his face- (no doubt expecting some Hollywood-style result like me flying 5 ft. backwards to my death) PRICELESS. He withdrew the pistol and stood there looking at it like WTF?
I dropped the groceries I was carrying and beat the ever-lasting crap out of him.

Guess where that pistol is right now? To the immediate left of the keyboard I type this on. I've had it ever since.
Dont ask where the kid is right now. Fuggedaboutit.

Would I ever seriously plan on using it as a primary defensive arm-no matter how well I can shoot with it? Heck no.
That's what the .45 is for.

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I'm sorry, I was going to end this last post but this story is completely unbelievable. You taunted someone that had a gun buried in your chest? You looked down and recognized a .25 caliber handgun 20 years ago? How common are those? Then he only shot once? And you beat him up. What if he shot you in the face?

Agh.. nevermind... I figured it out. You're just messing with me. Good one, you almost got me.

j4l said:

I looked down, saw what pistol it was and laughed at him. Told him "go ahead".

He did- point blank- straight into my chest. I never even felt the muzzle blast. The round never made it past the leather or even the zipper behind it.

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[video=youtube;ofQ6i9I1IYY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ofQ6i9I1IYY[/video]

And what if he'd been armed with an AT-4 Dragon, instead of a .25 Raven? We can "what-if" things until the stars burn out, for all that it matters..

the fact is he didnt. Had he done so, my reaction, obviously, would have been quiet different, and so would the results, Im sure. Doom on him.

09jisaac,

I also think CCI is tops when it comes to .22LR ammo: CCI "Stingers" are all I use for "serious" carry in my Beretta 21A. But for just plinking with my 21A, I use a variety of other brands and bullet types -- even the "bulk boxes" of .22 ammo sold at the Big Box stores -- since for casual plinking it doesn't matter if you have any malfunctions. Surprisingly, however, most work better than expected, but of course not well enough to trust 100% (and become CARRY ammo) as the CCI Stingers.

Of course, my 22 RIFLE (Marlin M60) will shoot them all without any problems, so those "other brands/bullet types" are never wasted. My Ruger Mark III shoots Stingers well, too (but IIRC, Ruger recommends lower-powered stuff for it so I prefer to use a "target" ammo for the Mk.III instead).

I have one of those Ciener .22LR conversions for my Colt Government 1911, but don't recall what it likes or doesn't like, except that CCI Stingers have always worked.

I carried a small .22LR handgun (2 different ones) FOR YEARS (for several reasons, not to be made public) as my main carry gun, and since I COULD hit what I aimed at, I wasn't AT ALL worried, but most people have to have something bigger. There are several reasons for that, but stating them would only make for a "lively debate" here which I do not have the time nor inclination to see out. Nor do I want to interact with the ignorant since no matter what is said, they will persist in their erroneous beliefs re: the .22LR caliber.

Personally, I don't under-rate the .22LR whatsoever.

So considering how many people ARE so ignorant/misinformed about the .22LR (not just here in this Forum but on the street as well) I would advise you [EDIT: and other pro-.22LR people such as the OP SickPythons] not to get into any "debate" with them as that would be a completely futile effort -- their minds are made up already -- so just let them remain in their ignorant bliss.

But you know, most "gun owners" in general are pretty ignorant about guns (and tactics especially), so they're not much more "informed" than the average Joe. They're more interested in how "sexy" a gun is (how stupid is that), how it looks or what movie it was used in instead of anything of real substance. And re: calibers vs. performance, it's what they've heard other people say/post and just parrot that same info whether it's true or not. Pretty pathetic and disappointing really, but true nonetheless.

cloudcroft said:

09jisaac,

I also think CCI is tops when it comes to .22LR ammo: CCI "Stingers" are all I use for "serious" carry in my Beretta 21A. But for just plinking with my 21A, I use a variety of other brands and bullet types, since for casual plinking it doesn't matter if you have any malfunctions. Surprisingly, however, most work better than expected, but of course not well enough to trust 100% (and become CARRY ammo) as the CCI Stingers.

Of course, my 22 RIFLE (Marlin M60) will shoot them all without any problems, so those "other brands/bullet types" are never wasted.

I have one of those Ciener .22LR conversions for my Colt Government 1911, but don't recall what it likes or doesn't like, except that CCI Stingers have always worked.

I carried a .22LR FOR YEARS (for several reasons, not to be made public) as my main carry gun, and since I COULD hit what I aimed at, I wasn't AT ALL worried. But most people have to have something bigger. There are several reason for that, but stating them would only make for a "lively debate" here which I do not have the time nor inclination to see out. Nor do I want to interact with the ignorant. But personally, I don't under-rate the .22LR whatsoever.

So considering how many people ARE so ignorant/misinformed about the .22LR, I would advise you not to get into any "debate" with them about it as it's a completely futile affort -- their minds are made up already -- so just let them remain in their ignorant bliss. But you know, most "gun owners"in general are pretty ignorant about guns (and tactics especially), so they're not much more "informed" than the average Joe. Disappointing, but true.

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My problem with most brands of .22 ammo isn't their inability to work the action but that I have had some boxes of federal (50 to a box) that 10 or so didn't even fire. And this is typical of most .22 brands.

But I prefer the "mini-mags" to the stingers. Why? Because that is what my gun recommended so thats what I feed it mostly.

cloudcroft said:

09jisaac,

I also think CCI is tops when it comes to .22LR ammo: CCI "Stingers" are all I use for "serious" carry in my Beretta 21A. But for just plinking with my 21A, I use a variety of other brands and bullet types -- even the "bulk boxes" of .22 ammo sold at the Big Box stores -- since for casual plinking it doesn't matter if you have any malfunctions. Surprisingly, however, most work better than expected, but of course not well enough to trust 100% (and become CARRY ammo) as the CCI Stingers.

Of course, my 22 RIFLE (Marlin M60) will shoot them all without any problems, so those "other brands/bullet types" are never wasted. My Ruger Mark III shoots Stingers well, too (but IIRC, Ruger recommends lower-powered stuff for it so I prefer to use a "target" ammo for the Mk.III instead).

I have one of those Ciener .22LR conversions for my Colt Government 1911, but don't recall what it likes or doesn't like, except that CCI Stingers have always worked.

I carried a small .22LR handgun (2 different ones) FOR YEARS (for several reasons, not to be made public) as my main carry gun, and since I COULD hit what I aimed at, I wasn't AT ALL worried, but most people have to have something bigger. There are several reasons for that, but stating them would only make for a "lively debate" here which I do not have the time nor inclination to see out. Nor do I want to interact with the ignorant since no matter what is said, they will persist in their erroneous beliefs re: the .22LR caliber.

But personally, I don't under-rate the .22LR whatsoever.

So considering how many people ARE so ignorant/misinformed about the .22LR -- not just here in this Forum but on the street as well -- I would advise you not to get into any "debate" with them as that would be a completely futile effort -- their minds are made up already -- so just let them remain in their ignorant bliss. But you know, most "gun owners" in general are pretty ignorant about guns (and tactics especially), so they're not much more "informed" than the average Joe. Disappointing, but true.

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I dont think anyone's actually under-rating the round,as much as acknowledging it's natural limitations. Used WITHIN those limitations, great-have at it. Despite my own incident with a .25 round, I also happen to have observed results with the opposite outcome. So, by all means, use a .22 or a .25- just use it within it's limitations, and try not to expect too much from it.

SickPythons said:

Well I'm not planning on standing completely still, put one hand in my back pocket, breath, relax, aim, squeeze if I need to use a gun for self-defense.
It's good practice to keep your feet moving when preparing for these types of situations. I'm not saying that you need to do commando rolls around your range but you certainly shouldn't be standing still.


Look.. I made my case. I hope some of the people here actually go out on the range and at least try the exercise out. It seems that most of the crowd here would have a hard time being objective about it but that was to be expected.

I'll be on the range tomorrow. Happy shooting.

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Ok, I jogged in place, pulled my .22 from holstered and then emptied all eleven rounds in 4.89 seconds. The group was 8 inches from the furthest two away from each other. Using a Sig mosquito 4.9 inch barrel firing 36gr CCI mini-mags.....

Next I did the same thing with 9mm, the group was 9 inches in 5.17 seconds. The group was much tighter with a few shots out of the group, but they counted.
This was my S&W M&P 4.5 inches barrel firing 124gr Winchester PDX(?)+P. I only loaded the mag with 11 rounds.

So the .22 was just an inch better and slightly faster with less penetration, less diameter bullet, less weight behind it, and mine has less capacity. I think I would just stick with 9 for self defense.

SickPythons said:

I figured it out. You're just messing with me.

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Like you are messing with us?

At least, I hope you are merely jerking chains around here. Otherwise, we'd have to assume something else. You don't want that.

VW_Factor said:

Like you are messing with us?

At least, I hope you are merely jerking chains around here. Otherwise, we'd have to assume something else. You don't want that.

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Like it matters, really? No one forces any of us to read or respond to anything in here. Still a valid topic, even if in jest, if for no other reason than to air and dispell some interweb myths.

Hasn't this topic been beaten to death enough? Also in little bit of defense of the OP, I had an acquaintance that was let's just say not in the right place who was killed by a single .22 shot to the body.