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Thread: Does this statement libel VCDL?

  1. #1
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Does this statement libel VCDL?

    Saw some quotes tossed around a few times in the coverage of the campus protests... what possible source would they have for saying these things? How come this isn't libel?

    From Blue Virginia:

    On that day, the Virginia Citizens Defense League (VCDL) - a radical pro-gun group that seeks the elimination of all firearm regulations, including background checks on gun buyers...
    and

    Finally, Lori Haas, whose daughter Emily was shot in the head during the tragedy at Virginia Tech (but thankfully survived!), and who also was at the GMU rally on Wednesday, states that "It's unfathomable that the VCDL would advocate for the elimination of background checks on gun buyers in the wake of what happened at Virginia Tech." Yet, sadly, that's exactly what they're doing, despite the fact that the vast majority of Virginians don't agree with their agenda.
    TFred

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    Questionable source

    Lori Haas also stated in another article that crime on Virginia campuses was so low that she couldn't see any reason to carry a gun.

    I guess her daughter being shot in the head is not a crime to her.

    Sometimes these "anti" spokespeople just don't make sense, and usually make up their “facts”.

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    Libel!?! I would call those admirable goals.

    In that laws only restrict those who will abide by them, criminals are gonna get guns. There is no point in restricting the people who respect laws. I think Thomas Jefferson had something to say about this.

    Lori Haas is just using the age old ad hominen attack. She wants to discredit VCDL rather than debate the merits of letting responsible adults have the means to stop the next Cho. Her ad hominen attack wouldn't fly two inches on a forum. Hey! I wonder if plenty of young adults with forum experience don't already recognize her tactic?

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    That's just Lori being Lori TFred.
    I doubt it rises to libel.
    Ignore her, the rest of the world does.

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Why are you quoting me.
    I have my own opinions on the three stooges (Lori, Goddard and the red faced fellow) but especially Cho and a couple other murderers from NOVA that would have been real easy to stop.

    The opinions would be politically incorrect so I don't post them...but I sure don't agree with Lori or her @&$y daughter.

    I'm back on the laptop now.....
    I will say this about Lori, when talking to her she claims she is not anti and in fact she and her husband own guns.....she says she only believes that all gun owners should be licensed and bla, bla, bla.

    The truth is that in her twisted little mind, she thinks she's pro 2nd and the rest of us are misguided tards who don't understand the true meaning of the Constitution.

    But the same can be said for a few supposedly pro 2nd bridge trolls we have here.
    Last edited by peter nap; 11-21-2011 at 08:08 AM.

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Just a follow-up note... the first quote in my OP was not from Lori Haas, but from "Blue Virginia", which is apparently affiliated with Media Matters.

    This post is written as part of the Media Matters Gun Facts fellowship. The purpose of the fellowship is to further Media Matters' mission to comprehensively monitor, analyze, and correct conservative misinformation in the U.S. media. Some of the worst misinformation occurs around the issue of guns, gun violence, and extremism, the fellowship program is designed to fight this misinformation with facts.
    Seems to me a media outlet should be held to a higher standard, and should not be allowed to publish defamatory statements without a valid source.

    Just sayin...

    TFred

    ETA: You can't win the battle of public opinion if you choose not to participate. Ask George Bush...
    Last edited by TFred; 11-21-2011 at 09:01 AM.

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    Regular Member Badger Johnson's Avatar
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    It's amazing how the news media will send out some mindless reporter who will just quote whatever is the most inflammatory. They don't look for the truth, just things to sell papers, or commercials.
    A gun in a holster is better than one drawn and dispensing bullets. Concealed forces the latter. - ixtow

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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    I will say this about Lori, when talking to her she claims she is not anti and in fact she and her husband own guns.....she says she only believes that all gun owners should be licensed and bla, bla, bla.
    You know what's sad? There are supposedly "pro-gun" groups who spew essentially the same goals or at least do everything in their might to make licensed carry the normal way to do so.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    Libel!?! I would call those admirable goals.

    In that laws only restrict those who will abide by them, criminals are gonna get guns. There is no point in restricting the people who respect laws. I think Thomas Jefferson had something to say about this.

    Lori Haas is just using the age old ad hominen attack. She wants to discredit VCDL rather than debate the merits of letting responsible adults have the means to stop the next Cho. Her ad hominen attack wouldn't fly two inches on a forum. Hey! I wonder if plenty of young adults with forum experience don't already recognize her tactic?
    Those are admirable goals!

    Laws only stop those who are willing to abide by them. Otherwise their only purpose is to define actions, which if performed and successfully prosecuted have an associated punishment with them.

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    Regular Member wylde007's Avatar
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    Exclamation

    Quote Originally Posted by jmelvin View Post
    You know what's sad? There are supposedly "pro-gun" groups who spew essentially the same goals or at least do everything in their might to make licensed carry the normal way to do so.
    Forgive them, for they know not what they do.

    Also, much like the war on [some] drugs, firearms licensing is an industry around which springs opportunity for financial gain by some. Take away the REQUISITE for licensure and a fair amount of income for certain individuals evaporates in a flash.
    The quiet war has begun, with silent weapons
    And the newest slavery is to keep the people poor, and stupid
    Novos ordo seclorum ~ Mustaine

    Never argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TFred View Post
    Just a follow-up note... the first quote in my OP was not from Lori Haas, but from "Blue Virginia", which is apparently affiliated with Media Matters.
    I love how they quoted me from the GMU protest in that article, and try to portray me as callous because I was drawing a comparison between the 50 million handguns in the US (a very conservative estimate - some numbers exceed 120 million) and yet there are only 17000 homicides each year in the US. Never mind that I was answering Ladd Everitt's question about how I know that the vast majority of gun owners are law abiding. 1 homicide (not all of them with guns) for every 3000 handguns in the US says that it's a minuscule percentage who aren't law abiding.

    Of course, they also completely overlooked when I was told by one of them that they didn't care about my experience of someone trying to beat my door down in the middle of the night. Heaven forbid I should want to be armed to protect my family in such a situation!

    Who's the callous one?
    Alma 43:47 - "And again, the Lord has said that: Ye shall defend your families even unto bloodshed...."
    Self defense isn't just a good idea, it's a commandment.

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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    SNIP I have my own opinions on the three stooges (Lori, Goddard and the red faced fellow) but especially Cho and a couple other murderers from NOVA that would have been real easy to stop.
    Hey! I hadn't thought of that! (the implication when seeing all those names and unnamed juxtaposed).

    Hmmmmmm. Interesting. Very interesting.

    Well, I've always said the anti-s have the blood of innocents on their hands--those rendered defenseless by the anti-gunners machinations.

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    Regular Member Old Virginia Joe's Avatar
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    Unhappy

    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    That's just Lori being Lori TFred.
    I doubt it rises to libel.
    Ignore her, the rest of the world does.
    Hey, my own mother would not ignore what she says. If she sees the quote on a printed piece of paper like the Virginan-Pilot, I guarrantee she will believe it. And yet, she raised me, some years ago . . . . . .

    Don't discount the gullibility of the masses out here. Obviously, they are fairly effective in preventing much of what we want to do.
    VCDL, Army Vet, Virginia Native

    Hey, Libtards, it's the "Bill of Rights," not the "Bill of Needs" . . . . .

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Old Virginia Joe View Post
    Hey, my own mother would not ignore what she says. If she sees the quote on a printed piece of paper like the Virginan-Pilot, I guarrantee she will believe it. And yet, she raised me, some years ago . . . . . .

    Don't discount the gullibility of the masses out here. Obviously, they are fairly effective in preventing much of what we want to do.
    I hadn't gotten around to posting it yet, but this ^.

    Unfortunately, most elections are decided by "the muddle in the middle"... people who are either too dumb or too apathetic to "pick a side" and stick with it for any coherent reason. They are the folks that all our persuasive efforts must focus on. The people on our side are already here. The die-hard anti-gun side, for the most part, is there to stay as well, as many of them have already gone through their own illogical justification process to end up there in the first place. Perhaps some, but very few of them will be converted back to sanity.

    The masses in the middle, who are sadly susceptible to "who has the best sound bite today", are the ones who make all the important decisions in our country. It's a scary thought, indeed.

    TFred

    ETA: And back on topic... these middle people are exactly the kind of people who might be influenced by such a libelous statement as noted in the Original Post...
    Last edited by TFred; 11-21-2011 at 04:00 PM.

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    Regular Member Repeater's Avatar
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    Slander?

    Quote Originally Posted by va_tazdad View Post
    Lori Haas also stated in another article that crime on Virginia campuses was so low that she couldn't see any reason to carry a gun.

    I guess her daughter being shot in the head is not a crime to her.

    Sometimes these "anti" spokespeople just don't make sense, and usually make up their “facts”.
    My concern is what she said publicly, as reported here and elsewhere:
    "Speculation over what happened in that classroom, what didn't happen in that classroom, what could be done, what couldn't be done is futile, and it's dangerously close to blaming the victims," said Haas.
    Who on the side of gun rights -- or gun choice -- blamed the victims? Who even came close to blaming the victims? Asserting that potential targets of evil have the right to carry guns for self-protection, and that doing so saves lives, isn't "speculation" -- it's supported by empirical evidence.

    Haas needs to apologize.

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    Regular Member wylde007's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TFred View Post
    Unfortunately, most elections are decided by "the muddle in the middle"... people who are either too dumb or too apathetic to "pick a side" and stick with it for any coherent reason.
    I agree with the contention but disagree with the logic.

    Most of them pick a side and stay with it - partisan politics - and are generally unswayed from their support of one of the big two candidates, not because of the candidate's platform or record, but whether they have a (D) or (R) after their names.

    "My daddy voted democrat, so I vote democrat."

    If the things you thought when you were young are false, how does thinking them when you're old change that?
    The quiet war has begun, with silent weapons
    And the newest slavery is to keep the people poor, and stupid
    Novos ordo seclorum ~ Mustaine

    Never argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wylde007 View Post
    I agree with the contention but disagree with the logic.

    Most of them pick a side and stay with it - partisan politics - and are generally unswayed from their support of one of the big two candidates, not because of the candidate's platform or record, but whether they have a (D) or (R) after their names.

    "My daddy voted democrat, so I vote democrat."

    If the things you thought when you were young are false, how does thinking them when you're old change that?
    The numbers don't matter. My point is that it's those who are not glued to one side or the other, however many of them there happen to be, who are influenced by the wind of the trend, who make the decisions in this system. It's those who we need to focus on.

    TFred

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TFred View Post
    The numbers don't matter. My point is that it's those who are not glued to one side or the other, however many of them there happen to be, who are influenced by the wind of the trend, who make the decisions in this system. It's those who we need to focus on.

    TFred
    That's true TFred but I've found the muddle middle aren't really influenced by screaming hysteria. Most here are too young to remember Nikita Khrushchev pounding his shoe on the podium, but we all got a good laugh out of that. The Russians are always good for a little amusement.

    The middle is swayed as much by who has the most campaign signs as anything else.

    It's no different with the three stooges and Blood In the Streets, the children will suffer and there's no crime.
    True anti's are rare and they're really the only one's moved completely by that dribble.
    Last edited by peter nap; 11-21-2011 at 05:26 PM.

  19. #19
    Regular Member Marco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by
    .

    The truth is that in her twisted little mind, she thinks she's pro 2nd and the rest of us are misguided tards who don't understand the true meaning of the Constitution.

    But the same can be said for a few supposedly pro 2nd bridge trolls we have here.
    So true!

    VAGT has loads of F***T^&@$ demanding CHP's for private transactions.
    Their property their rules I just avoid them/their items and refuse to sell to if I know about their requirements before hand.



    Some gun owners are our worst enemy, just look to a large national org if you don't believe it.
    Last edited by Marco; 11-21-2011 at 06:56 PM.
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    The easiest ex. but probably the most difficult to grasp for gun owners is that fool permission slip so many of you have, especially if you show it off with pride. You should recognize it as an embarrassment, an infringement, a travesty and an affront to a free person.


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    Regular Member IanB's Avatar
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    TFred, you don't think VCDL's mission is to eliminate all forms of gun control? It's on the VCDL Homepage!!

    SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED.

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    Regular Member ocholsteroc's Avatar
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    SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED
    +1
    How come a DUI you can get your driver licence back, which it is a privilege. But if commiting a felon, even something non violent like stealing, you are denied your constitutional rights for the rest of your life?
    If you don't support the Second Amendment to the Constitution, what other parts of the Constitution do you reject?
    More restrictions on guns? how about restrictions on chainsaws and knives?

  22. #22
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nova View Post
    Sorry Peter Nap I wasn't meaning to quote your post in my previous reply. On all the other forums I'm on, the reply without quote button is on the right side below each post, rather than on the left side at the bottom of the page, and I clicked it out of habit.
    No problem. I just don't want to get lumped in with Lori. Bad enough that she speaks to me

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    Quote Originally Posted by jmelvin View Post
    Those are admirable goals!
    Hee, hee. Maybe we can get Lori to do free advertising for us! Just feed her the lines we want her to broadcast!

  24. #24
    Founder's Club Member Tess's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmelvin View Post
    Those are admirable goals!

    Laws only stop those who are willing to abide by them. Otherwise their only purpose is to define actions, which if performed and successfully prosecuted have an associated punishment with them.
    Laws don't prevent crime.

    Laws provide a framework by which to punish those who choose to ignore them.

    The law-abiding have (generally) chosen they are not willing to accept the risk of having the punishment applied to them, so indirectly the law has deterred the crime. It has not prevented a crime.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tess View Post
    Laws don't prevent crime.

    Laws provide a framework by which to punish those who choose to ignore them.

    The law-abiding have (generally) chosen they are not willing to accept the risk of having the punishment applied to them, so indirectly the law has deterred the crime. It has not prevented a crime.
    Exactly what I said (just in different words!)

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