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Thread: Conceal Meets Open....

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    Conceal Meets Open....

    First time poster so go easy on me.......
    My question: With my Washington state conceal permit if I carry open but cover with a shirt or coat/jacket would I still be legal?
    I asked this question to a local gun shop and was given a very vague to non-answer.
    My understanding would be that I was legal either way.
    I looked through the site here and did not see this covered (no pun!)
    Thanks for your replies!

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    Washington does not require a permit to open carry with the exception of being loaded in a vehicle (must have a CPL to be legal). If you have a CPL then you are legal to conceal. So you're covered both ways. I do not understand the question fully but I hope that answers what you're trying to ask. If you are open carrying, then the pistol is visible i.e. not covered by anything, if you cover it with a shirt or jacket you are concealed carrying and need a CPL to remain legal.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ultra09 View Post
    First time poster so go easy on me.......
    My question: With my Washington state conceal permit if I carry open but cover with a shirt or coat/jacket would I still be legal?
    I asked this question to a local gun shop and was given a very vague to non-answer.
    My understanding would be that I was legal either way.
    I looked through the site here and did not see this covered (no pun!)
    Thanks for your replies!
    To my understanding... if you're covering it with a shirt / jacket you are now concealed and no longer open carry. Having your permit, EITHER is legal anyhow.

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    A lot of the guys on here get a CPL simply so they don't have to unload when getting in a vehicle.

    No CPL means you cannot have your pistol loaded when inside a vehicle, nor can you have your pistol concealed on your person. This means no shirt, jacket, vest, etc. over your pistol. You can only open carry where not prohibited by law.

    Having a CPL means you can open carry AND carry concealed, you have the option of doing both. You are NOT required to conceal. Additionally, you may have your pistol loaded when in a vehicle. You may only carry (open or concealed) where not prohibited by law. There is no difference of where you can carry, regardless of whether you have a CPL or not.

    Loaded means either a round in the chamber, a magazine containing ammo in the pistol, or both. There is no state law that defines a certain distance the ammo must be from the gun. Heck, you could have the gun duct taped to one side of your head and the magazine to the other. Regardless of what you may have heard, you aren't required to put part of the gun, the ammo, etc. in the back seat.


    These threads should get you started on some good, informational reading:

    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...out-Open-Carry

    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...ights-Pamphlet


    Also, read the entirety of Title 9 Chapter 41 of the Revised Code of Washington:

    http://apps.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=9.41


    Hope this helps!
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    Campaign Veteran Bookman's Avatar
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    You'll be fine. No license is required for OC, but you must have a CPL to OC loaded (with ammo, not alcohol) in a car. Once you don a jacket, coat, etc. you are now CC. This requires a CPL as well.

    Sounds like you've pretty much got a handle on it.
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    Opt-Out Members BigDave's Avatar
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    My information is pretty much the same as posted earlier as having your CPL and Keep it on you, you manner of carrying your firearm in a holster anywhere you are legal to do so.
    Note places off limits in RCW 9.41.300 Weapons prohibited in certain places -- Local laws and ordinances -- Exceptions as many will give you misleading information and I had one experience while purchasing my Bersa 380 from Cabela's as I was sitting and waiting for my newly purchased gun I took off my jacket and a salesman showed up and their policy is to be escorted out with your new firearm he made a comment that I would have to cover my firearm in my holster up as that is how I came in and during our walk out I explained to him it is lawful either way since I have my CPL and then I pointed out the silliness of being escorted out with a newly purchased weapon when I was already loaded and carrying!
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    Oh, did we mention...

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    Quote Originally Posted by SayWhat View Post

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    Welcome to the forum

    Ultra 9 welcome to the forum it sounds like you pretty much have it down now if you have you LCCP you can carry either way. just be careful to not go into non authorized places bars, federal buildings,schools, court rooms ect. ect. ect. welcome to OC.
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    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ultra09 View Post
    I asked this question to a local gun shop and was given a very vague to non-answer.
    I've found that many gun shop employees don't necessarily know the laws covering firearm carry. I usually hear the comment "Concealed Means Concealed" implying that one a) must conceal if they have a CPL; b) can't have even part of the weapon concealed if Open Carrying so one needs a CPL when carrying in an IWB holster; c) Open Carry makes people "nervous" so therefore it's illegal.

    These are just a few that I've heard from Gun Store employees, even Owners.
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    Regular Member Vitaeus's Avatar
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    Washington doesn't have any laws about "printing" or visibility, having your CPL means only where you carry NOT how visibly you carry.

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    what you carry not how

    I actually had A Port Orchard detective try to tell me I could still be arrested for open carry if someone was alarmed and called 911, Then he told me a story about about a woman who called 911 and reported A man with a gun call at the southworth ferry dock and the police arrested him at gun point.
    Then he went on to explain the guy had A shotgun hung from a sling under A long jacket and the wind blew his jacket back and exposed his gun and someone saw it and was alarmed there fore illeagle . The officer said he had A permit but because the woman was alarmed it was unlawful. I asked him if it was carry method or the fact it was A shotgun being concealed not A handgun that was unlawful. he then claimed he had to run and didn,t have time to waist on idle chat.
    I truly Love my Country, But the government scares the he!! out of me.

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    Regular Member waterfowl woody's Avatar
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    don't ask gun store employees about the law because more then likely they have no idea or worse yet there OWN idea. sorry to the few gun store employees that are smart. If you carry in washington its a good idea to have a concealed permit as it takes care of alot of the bullcrap, for one example transportation with loaded open carried pistol. In Washington you will find places that don't want open carry in there business, Cabela's is one even though they sell guns they don't support americans "visible" right to bear arms in their stores. Another is Washington Arms Collectors which has many gun shows and supports gun ownership but when you visit there gun show they disarm you at the door, not just the weapons you bring to sell but your carry for protection pistol. So the benefits of CC is huge and more relaxing due to other peoples outragish personal beliefs.

    so if you "open carry" your pistol and then put on a shirt or jacket you are now "concealed carrying". shirt blows open=open carry.shirt falls back over your pistol=concealed carry. you bend over and gun prints though shirt=open carry. you stand up and no printing= concealed carry.

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    Quote Originally Posted by waterfowl woody View Post
    don't ask gun store employees about the law because more then likely they have no idea or worse yet there OWN idea. sorry to the few gun store employees that are smart. If you carry in washington its a good idea to have a concealed permit as it takes care of alot of the bullcrap, for one example transportation with loaded open carried pistol. In Washington you will find places that don't want open carry in there business, Cabela's is one even though they sell guns they don't support americans "visible" right to bear arms in their stores. Another is Washington Arms Collectors which has many gun shows and supports gun ownership but when you visit there gun show they disarm you at the door, not just the weapons you bring to sell but your carry for protection pistol. So the benefits of CC is huge and more relaxing due to other peoples outragish personal beliefs.

    so if you "open carry" your pistol and then put on a shirt or jacket you are now "concealed carrying". shirt blows open=open carry.shirt falls back over your pistol=concealed carry. you bend over and gun prints though shirt=open carry. you stand up and no printing= concealed carry.
    Cabelas has no problem with OC. We do it all the time.


    There are certain places that you aren't allowed to take a gun unless you have the permit. Gun Free School Zones for example (GFSZ) you can't be within 1000' of the property if you don't have a permit.
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    Quote Originally Posted by waterfowl woody View Post
    so if you "open carry" your pistol and then put on a shirt or jacket you are now "concealed carrying". shirt blows open=open carry.shirt falls back over your pistol=concealed carry. you bend over and gun prints though shirt=open carry. you stand up and no printing= concealed carry.
    Thanks for all the replies and the welcome!
    The above scenario fits my question pretty good, thanks Woody.
    With age has come the "love handles" carrying iwb not too comfortable and don't feel like buying all new pants. Shoulder holster could be similar to above, shirt/coat opens oc or ccw? Now with cooler temps, rain and the coat I normally wear it's easy just to place in coat pocket, one button, snap shut no one knows!
    To me it makes perfect sense that I or anyone would be fine but we are dealing with the gooberment here!
    Still new to WA and trying to understand the (D) way of living!!!

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    don't ask gun store employees about the law because more then likely they have no idea or worse yet there OWN idea.
    Unless you are talking to a few of the guys up at Champion Arms in Kent. There's at least 3 of us who know what we are talking about.

  16. #16
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    A concealed Pistol License does exactly what it's title says: It is a license to conceal (with added benifit of being able to carry a pistol loaded in a vehicle etc)

    A CPL has absolutely nothing to do with the HOW (or mode) of carry other than you may now conceal if you wish to. Big advantage is in winter when you are wearing a jacket or coat, and that you do not have to unload when you get in a vehicle.

    Look at it this way: (a la OC) you do not have to have a license to walk or ride a bicycle, but you do need a license to drive a car (a la conceal a pistol)

    However, just because you have a license to drive a car (conceal) does not mean you can no longer walk or ride a bike (OC)

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    Regular Member amzbrady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bookman View Post
    You'll be fine. No license is required for OC, but you must have a CPL to OC loaded (with ammo, not alcohol) in a car. Once you don a jacket, coat, etc. you are now CC. This requires a CPL as well.

    Sounds like you've pretty much got a handle on it.
    you can not carry loaded if you have alcohol in the car?
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    Quote Originally Posted by amzbrady View Post
    you can not carry loaded if you have alcohol in the car?
    He was saying that in jest, that you can't be loaded (with alcohol as in DUI). Not that you can't have alcohol in your car, that is perfectly fine as there is no law saying you cannot have both your firearm and alcohol present at the same time.

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    Just remember this is the WA state thread, and the advice pretty much only applies to WA only. For example there are some states that even with a CPL, if you "print" you can get in trouble. Be thankful you are in WA, compared to some states we have it pretty good.
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    Quote Originally Posted by waterfowl woody View Post
    so if you "open carry" your pistol and then put on a shirt or jacket you are now "concealed carrying". shirt blows open=open carry.shirt falls back over your pistol=concealed carry. you bend over and gun prints though shirt=open carry. you stand up and no printing= concealed carry.



    There is no law in Washington that even mentions "printing". If the gun is covered, it's concealed. Doesn't matter if someone can see the outline. That would not make it "open carry". It makes it poorly concealed.
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    Quote Originally Posted by j2l3 View Post
    There is no law in Washington that even mentions "printing". If the gun is covered, it's concealed. Doesn't matter if someone can see the outline. That would not make it "open carry". It makes it poorly concealed.
    Even that is an arguable point. The accepted definition of concealed typically is the following:

    A firearm or dangerous weapon is concealed if it is carried in such a manner as to not be discernible by the ordinary observation of a passerby.
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    Regular Member Metalhead47's Avatar
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    Only .02$ I havn't seen mentioned in this thread...

    IF you have a CPL, in WA state, you're legal to carry concealed, open, OR BOTH! Plenty of folks here carry a concealed BUG in addition to a larger OC sidearm that doesn't often conceal well.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayd1981 View Post
    He was saying that in jest, that you can't be loaded (with alcohol as in DUI). Not that you can't have alcohol in your car, that is perfectly fine as there is no law saying you cannot have both your firearm and alcohol present at the same time.
    Just don't open carry with an open container.* :-)


    * RCW 46.61.519
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    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLCDR View Post
    Not exactly true.

    1000' School Zone Rule - CPL required according to Federal law.
    On school premises - CPL required according to RCW (there are other exceptions as well).
    In a convention center owned by a municipality that has banned firearms - CPL required according to RCW.
    I'll give ya the school zone one, but that's federal. I haven't heard of it being enforced in WA, though if it has I'd like to read up on it. I was focusing more on state laws and places that are barred either way, such as age 21+ areas of restaurants and bars, restricted areas of mental institutions, restricted areas of a courthouse, restricted areas of an airport, etc.

    The exception for picking up or dropping off a student while carrying with a CPL is a good one to remember, good catch.
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    Regular Member Thor80's Avatar
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    Has anyone actually OC'd while picking up their children? I pick up my son from an elementary school a few times a week on my days off but I always conceal for that task.....

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