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Conceal Meets Open....

joeroket

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 5, 2006
Messages
3,339
Location
Everett, Washington, USA
There is no law in Washington that even mentions "printing". If the gun is covered, it's concealed. Doesn't matter if someone can see the outline. That would not make it "open carry". It makes it poorly concealed.

Even that is an arguable point. The accepted definition of concealed typically is the following:

A firearm or dangerous weapon is concealed if it is carried in such a manner as to not be discernible by the ordinary observation of a passerby.
 

Metalhead47

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 20, 2009
Messages
2,800
Location
South Whidbey, Washington, USA
Only .02$ I havn't seen mentioned in this thread...

IF you have a CPL, in WA state, you're legal to carry concealed, open, OR BOTH! Plenty of folks here carry a concealed BUG in addition to a larger OC sidearm that doesn't often conceal well.
 

Lammo

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 15, 2009
Messages
580
Location
Spokane, Washington, USA
He was saying that in jest, that you can't be loaded (with alcohol as in DUI). Not that you can't have alcohol in your car, that is perfectly fine as there is no law saying you cannot have both your firearm and alcohol present at the same time.

Just don't open carry with an open container.* :)


* RCW 46.61.519
 

.45ACPaddy

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 15, 2009
Messages
999
Location
Lakewood, WA
Not exactly true.

1000' School Zone Rule - CPL required according to Federal law.
On school premises - CPL required according to RCW (there are other exceptions as well).
In a convention center owned by a municipality that has banned firearms - CPL required according to RCW.

I'll give ya the school zone one, but that's federal. I haven't heard of it being enforced in WA, though if it has I'd like to read up on it. I was focusing more on state laws and places that are barred either way, such as age 21+ areas of restaurants and bars, restricted areas of mental institutions, restricted areas of a courthouse, restricted areas of an airport, etc.

The exception for picking up or dropping off a student while carrying with a CPL is a good one to remember, good catch.
 

Thor80

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 8, 2011
Messages
299
Location
Spokane County, WA
Has anyone actually OC'd while picking up their children? I pick up my son from an elementary school a few times a week on my days off but I always conceal for that task.....
 

amzbrady

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 1, 2009
Messages
3,521
Location
Marysville, Washington, USA
don't ask gun store employees about the law because more then likely they have no idea or worse yet there OWN idea. sorry to the few gun store employees that are smart. If you carry in washington its a good idea to have a concealed permit as it takes care of alot of the bullcrap, for one example transportation with loaded open carried pistol. In Washington you will find places that don't want open carry in there business, Cabela's is one even though they sell guns they don't support americans "visible" right to bear arms in their stores. Another is Washington Arms Collectors which has many gun shows and supports gun ownership but when you visit there gun show they disarm you at the door, not just the weapons you bring to sell but your carry for protection pistol. So the benefits of CC is huge and more relaxing due to other peoples outragish personal beliefs.

so if you "open carry" your pistol and then put on a shirt or jacket you are now "concealed carrying". shirt blows open=open carry.shirt falls back over your pistol=concealed carry. you bend over and gun prints though shirt=open carry. you stand up and no printing= concealed carry.

Esp the guys at Marksman, They are strictly a business where knowledge is not needed.

He was saying that in jest, that you can't be loaded (with alcohol as in DUI). Not that you can't have alcohol in your car, that is perfectly fine as there is no law saying you cannot have both your firearm and alcohol present at the same time.

I think it's only a problem if you have an open container.

Just remember this is the WA state thread, and the advice pretty much only applies to WA only. For example there are some states that even with a CPL, if you "print" you can get in trouble. Be thankful you are in WA, compared to some states we have it pretty good.

I wouldnt survive in Texas. I cant conceal "without" printing. I cant stand being untucked, and dont like vests, jackets and second shirts, on hot days.

I actually had A Port Orchard detective try to tell me I could still be arrested for open carry if someone was alarmed and called 911, Then he told me a story about about a woman who called 911 and reported A man with a gun call at the southworth ferry dock and the police arrested him at gun point.
Then he went on to explain the guy had A shotgun hung from a sling under A long jacket and the wind blew his jacket back and exposed his gun and someone saw it and was alarmed there fore illeagle . The officer said he had A permit but because the woman was alarmed it was unlawful. I asked him if it was carry method or the fact it was A shotgun being concealed not A handgun that was unlawful. he then claimed he had to run and didn,t have time to waist on idle chat.

I had a retired cop tell me the same thing in a discussion at safeway, He said "If a mother with kids got scared by seeing your firearm you could be arrested". Wasnt it ( STATE OF WASHINGTON, Appellant, vs. GREGORY ELIJAH CASAD No. 35333-4-II ) That took care of that?

I do. Middle School and now High School

I pick up my daughter open carry, but in a vehicle. I am not totally clear on the in the parking lot thing, so I always hope I dont have to get out it a hurry.
 

OlGutshotWilly

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jun 30, 2008
Messages
443
Location
Snohomish, WA, ,
Has anyone actually OC'd while picking up their children? I pick up my son from an elementary school a few times a week on my days off but I always conceal for that task.....

I CC routinely when picking up and dropping off my son at elementary school. I have not yet OC'd there. I tend to loiter for 10 minutes or more in front of the doors waiting for him, and he is not ready yet to be known around school as "the kid who's dad brings a gun to school", so I respect that.

I likely will OC come Middle or High School.
 

MadHatter66

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 14, 2008
Messages
320
Location
Poulsbo, Kitsap County, Washington, USA
I had a retired cop tell me the same thing in a discussion at safeway, He said "If a mother with kids got scared by seeing your firearm you could be arrested". Wasnt it ( STATE OF WASHINGTON, Appellant, vs. GREGORY ELIJAH CASAD No. 35333-4-II ) That took care of that?

Unfortunately State v. Casad is an unpublished opinion... While it does prove the point that is trying to be made here, it is a non-binding decision so even if you are charged, such as some people have been, you cannot use it in court to say "here is an opinion that says the entire stop was fruit of the poisonous tree."
 

Bill Starks

State Researcher
Joined
Dec 27, 2007
Messages
4,304
Location
Nortonville, KY, USA
I always carried when I picked up my daughter from High School, there was never an issue. I did get asked once where my weapon was when I had to go in once while wearing an empty holster....
 

amzbrady

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 1, 2009
Messages
3,521
Location
Marysville, Washington, USA
I always carried when I picked up my daughter from High School, there was never an issue. I did get asked once where my weapon was when I had to go in once while wearing an empty holster....

Did you tell them it was locked in your vehicle in the parking lot?

To be clear, the 1000 foot rule is from the building or property??? I was just looking at a ball park across the street that is school property quite some distance from the school and they have a sign on the fence that says weapons free zone. I was thinking of taking my metal detector over to the ball feild.
 
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Jayd1981

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 14, 2010
Messages
387
Location
Richland, Washington, USA
Did you tell them it was locked in your vehicle in the parking lot?

To be clear, the 1000 foot rule is from the building or property??? I was just looking at a ball park across the street that is school property quite some distance from the school and they have a sign on the fence that says weapons free zone. I was thinking of taking my metal detector over to the ball feild.

The federal GFSZ is 1000 ft from the school property. The WA law is not on school property. Both don't apply if you're a WA resident with a WA CPL. But you still cannot carry into any school building.
 
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Difdi

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 2, 2010
Messages
987
Location
Seattle, Washington, USA
1000' School Zone Rule - CPL required according to Federal law.
On school premises - CPL required according to RCW (there are other exceptions as well).

The way you phrased that raised an odd thought. Given that GFSZ rules measure from the perimeter of the school property, if the school is large enough so that you can be on school grounds without being within 1,000' of the perimeter, would GFSZ ban firearm possession in such a place?

Yeah, I know it's a silly thought, but depending on the exact phrasing of the GFSZ Act...
 

hermannr

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 24, 2011
Messages
2,327
Location
Okanogan Highland
The federal GFSZ is 1000 ft from the school property. The WA law is not on school property. Both don't apply if you're a WA resident with a WA CPL. But you still cannot carry into any school building.

Would you please quote the specific RCW that states you cannot carry into a school buildng?

RCW 9.41.280 says the prohibitions in section 1 do not apply to a person with with a CPL when picking up, or dropping off a student. There is nothing in 280 that says I cannot go into a building if I am picking up, or dropping off a student, as long as I have a CPL. It only says I must be pickng up, or dropping off....nothing more.
 

Jayd1981

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 14, 2010
Messages
387
Location
Richland, Washington, USA
Would you please quote the specific RCW that states you cannot carry into a school buildng?

RCW 9.41.280 says the prohibitions in section 1 do not apply to a person with with a CPL when picking up, or dropping off a student. There is nothing in 280 that says I cannot go into a building if I am picking up, or dropping off a student, as long as I have a CPL. It only says I must be pickng up, or dropping off....nothing more.

Its in that RCW, gotta read a bit for it though.
RCW 9.41.280
(6) Except as provided in subsection (3)(b), (c), (f), and (h) of this section, firearms are not permitted in a public or private school building.
 

John Hardin

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 29, 2007
Messages
683
Location
Snohomish, Washington, USA
Its in that RCW, gotta read a bit for it though.
RCW 9.41.280
(6) Except as provided in subsection (3)(b), (c), (f), and (h) of this section, firearms are not permitted in a public or private school building.
And, just to be clear, the subsection about picking up and dropping off is (3)(e), which is not listed as an exception to subsection (6), so "picking up and dropping off" does not include "entering buildings".
 
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