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Thread: Saw a "WAVE" anti card in person today

  1. #1
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    Saw a "WAVE" anti card in person today

    I was at my buddy's local restaurant this morning for breakfast. I was "casually concealed" in which I was using a serpa II OWB holster, but my sweater covers most of it, and when I have my jacket on it completely covers it. During the course of my meal I was getting warm, so I took my jacket off, and I caught the glance of some lady and her friend. They clearly saw my gun and acted as if they wanted to flee in horror. As I finished eating and paid for my meal, one of the women got up and went outside and was looking around. Hindsight, I think she was looking for a "no guns allowed" sign. (there is none)

    They were still there when I left. I got a call from my friend about 15 minutes later. He said after I left, one of the women asked for a manager. My friend walked out and the woman handed him one of those misleading WAVE cards full of lies and misinformation, and went off about how dangerous guns are, and there are families/children in there, and on and on. She also talked about how "that guy at the counter" had a gun she could clearly see and she was "about to call the cops but then he left".

    He told her that he is well aware of the fact that his restaurant is MORE safe by allowing law-abiding citizens to carry in his restaurant. And if she doesn't like it, then she can go somewhere else. He told her "it'll be a cold day in hell before I put one of those "target us, we're defenseless" signs on his door. She huffed and puffed some more then left.



    EDIT: Pardon me that title should have said "saw a WAVE anti card person today"
    Last edited by bmwguy11; 11-22-2011 at 10:48 AM.

  2. #2
    Regular Member XDFDE45's Avatar
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    She would have looked like an idiot had she called the cops. I can only imagine what she was thinking, probably waiting for you to take your gun out and start shooting so they could use you as an example on how people will suddenly go crazy if you carry a gun .
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    Campaign Veteran Flipper's Avatar
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    Here is what a fact check of Bonavia's "facts" found:

    "She implies that 80% of businesses in the other 48 states that have conceal and carry… ban guns. That is a complete and total lie. I spent the last four and a half days researching that false claim and have unequivocally determined it is a lie. No state has an 80% rate. No state even has a 30% rate. In fact, there is absolutely no verifiable sources that keep track of those statistics in any state. So, she’s merely making up a reality that does not exist. There are estimates (none go as high as 30%) but nothing that can be verified. Here in Minnesota, it is estimated and not verified that 14% of businesses do not allow guns on the premises, and those are mostly big employers like GE and other manufacturing type firms. Not your local grocery store."

    http://madisle.info/2011/08/01/jeri-...#axzz1eLvwHDSG
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    Yea this was the card they handed him.

    https://org2.democracyinaction.org/o...Handout(2).pdf

    Full of all lies. I myself did some research on the first two statements. The 3 in 1 "survey" was done with mostly democratic leaning counties, and using a source that is a liberal/democrat polling institute that is often used by the left when they want to release left-leaning polls. And the 2nd part about the "5 to 7" times more likely statement... There's about a million things wrong with that one that anyone with google can find out why it's wrong, false, and completely misleading/incorrect.

    And yea the 80% one always makes me laugh.

  5. #5
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    anti-card, from the anti-matter universe? i knew it!

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    Regular Member bigdaddy1's Avatar
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    While I seriously doubt I will get any response, this is the message I sent to them through their web site.

    Hi, I recently received one of your post a sign cards and have been trying to verify any of the facts you post on the card with out any success. Would you please provide your sources for these reported facts? I also noticed you forgot to mention the liability clause with a business that posts, where a business that does post a no weapons sign is now liable for any injury or loss associated with a criminal act while on that property. I am sure that was simply an oversight, as I am sure it wouldn't be your intent to mislead any business with your information as that would simply be dishonest. I look forward to seeing your fact source. Thank you
    What part of "shall not be infringed" don't you understand?

  7. #7
    McX
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    Protias gave me a nice supply of no guns no money cards at last visit, keep them in my wallet, and by the white card. that's my counter to their card. their card speaks of theory, mine of fact.

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    Campaign Veteran Flipper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bmwguy11 View Post
    Yea this was the card they handed him.

    https://org2.democracyinaction.org/o...Handout(2).pdf

    Full of all lies. I myself did some research on the first two statements. The 3 in 1 "survey" was done with mostly democratic leaning counties, and using a source that is a liberal/democrat polling institute that is often used by the left when they want to release left-leaning polls. And the 2nd part about the "5 to 7" times more likely statement... There's about a million things wrong with that one that anyone with google can find out why it's wrong, false, and completely misleading/incorrect.

    And yea the 80% one always makes me laugh.
    This link rips apart the "5 to 7" statement:

    http://newsbusters.org/node/11663

    Here is the "5 to 7" study. WAVE doesn't point out that the study was unable to show the causal relationship between allowing firearms in the workplace and their conclusion.

    The study:

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/arti...df/0950830.pdf
    When in danger you can dial 911 and hope for the police to arrive a few minutes later armed with guns.
    Why do police carry guns?

    The Joyce Foundation funded firearm control empire:
    http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...lFundingR1.png

    "Everything that we see is a shadow cast by that which we do not see." - Martin Luther King Jr.

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    Regular Member DocWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigdaddy1 View Post
    While I seriously doubt I will get any response, this is the message I sent to them through their web site.

    Hi, I recently received one of your post a sign cards and have been trying to verify any of the facts you post on the card with out any success. Would you please provide your sources for these reported facts? I also noticed you forgot to mention the liability clause with a business that posts, where a business that does post a no weapons sign is now liable for any injury or loss associated with a criminal act while on that property. I am sure that was simply an oversight, as I am sure it wouldn't be your intent to mislead any business with your information as that would simply be dishonest. I look forward to seeing your fact source. Thank you
    You boat rocker you.......I like it....good, good.

  10. #10
    Campaign Veteran Flipper's Avatar
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    Can someone with some talent make up a counter card to WAVE's lies in the same format as WAVE's, and headed up "Be a SAFER WISCONSIN business"

    Point: By a huge margin of nearly 4 to 1 Wisconsin citizens approved the right to carry a firearm for security and self-defense.

    Point: The is no evidence that permitting firearms in the work place is a cause of workplace homicides.

    Point: The vast majority of businesses nationwide and in Wisconsin, including Walmart, Target, many banks, Mc Donalds, Kwik Trip, Culvers, many Pic N Saves permit firearm carry in accordance with state law.

    Tens of thousands of Wisconsin residents and millions nationwide have concealed carry licenses. Many of them, out of concern for their own and their family's safety, will avoid businesses that prohibit them from providing for their self-defense.
    Last edited by Flipper; 11-22-2011 at 02:06 PM.
    When in danger you can dial 911 and hope for the police to arrive a few minutes later armed with guns.
    Why do police carry guns?

    The Joyce Foundation funded firearm control empire:
    http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...lFundingR1.png

    "Everything that we see is a shadow cast by that which we do not see." - Martin Luther King Jr.

  11. #11
    Regular Member davegran's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bmwguy11 View Post
    ....

    They were still there when I left. I got a call from my friend about 15 minutes later. He said after I left, one of the women asked for a manager. My friend walked out and the woman handed him one of those misleading WAVE cards full of lies and misinformation, and went off about how dangerous guns are, and there are families/children in there, and on and on. She also talked about how "that guy at the counter" had a gun she could clearly see and she was "about to call the cops but then he left".

    He told her that he is well aware of the fact that his restaurant is MORE safe by allowing law-abiding citizens to carry in his restaurant. And if she doesn't like it, then she can go somewhere else. He told her "it'll be a cold day in hell before I put one of those "target us, we're defenseless" signs on his door. She huffed and puffed some more then left.
    If only he'd had a recorder!
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    Regular Member bigdaddy1's Avatar
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    BMWguy, if your friend doesnt mind please let us know this fine establishment so we also can enjoy his food while under our own protection.
    What part of "shall not be infringed" don't you understand?

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    I'm assuming you were in the WB area. I've been looking for a new breakfast place.

    How are the cheeseburgers?

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    Regular Member Cobra469's Avatar
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    That WAVE site says there is a database of business that don't allow firearms. I would like to see that. Then I know where to send letters in protest and I can make sure to spend my money at their competition. I have no quarrels about letting their competition know why I would rather support a business that uses their brains and realize these signs make kill zones.

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    Perhaps the survey of businesses that allowed concealed weapons, had a lot of sampling in Illinois? Nobody there allows concealed weapons.
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    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigdaddy1
    BMWguy, if your friend doesnt mind please let us know this fine establishment so we also can enjoy his food while under our own protection.
    Yeah, what he said.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cobra469
    That WAVE site says there is a database of business that don't allow firearms. I would like to see that.
    Try www.friendorfoe.us
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigdaddy1 View Post
    BMWguy, if your friend doesnt mind please let us know this fine establishment so we also can enjoy his food while under our own protection.
    Crossroads Restaurant in Hubertus, WI. (it's just NW of germantown/falls area)

    He more than welcomes anyone who is a 2A supporter.

    (used to be corfu restaurant)
    Last edited by bmwguy11; 11-22-2011 at 04:53 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TaurusToter View Post
    I'm assuming you were in the WB area. I've been looking for a new breakfast place.

    How are the cheeseburgers?

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    Pretty decent. The pancakes are AWESOME. His restaurant is about 10-15 mins, just off and south of holy hill road off the freeway.

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    Please thank the store owner for his support. I'm sure he will get a few more visitors from your post here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bmwguy11 View Post
    Crossroads Restaurant in Hubertus, WI. (it's just NW of germantown/falls area)

    He more than welcomes anyone who is a 2A supporter.

    (used to be corfu restaurant)
    I will be sure to reference this story when I'm in there thanking him for allowing me to patronize his business. Hopefully that old cow is in there.

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    Wisconsin Will Eventually Get Used to It

    Wisconsin will eventually get used to open and concealed carry. In my three years of residence in Utah the only "no guns" signs I have ever seen have been a hospitals and some, but not all, of their clinics. By way of example, the hospital down the block (Alta View) has no guns signs posted at the admittance and emergency entrances, but my urologist, who has an office in that complex, refuses to post. I have never seen a no guns sign at any retail business.

    My personal care physician, a good general practice healthcare professional, recently had some blood work and an EKG done on me. With the doc present and the EKG tech (also female) setting up, I was asked to remove all metal from my person, including my belt. So I dutifully complied and removed my Springfield XD-9, my Kel-Tec back up gun, my belt, my cell phone, and the few coins I had. The doc didn't even blink. Apparently, having patients remove their personal self defense accessories is not at all uncommon in that practice.
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    Regular Member jpm84092's Avatar
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    Angry Now Comes The Yellow Cat

    Quote Originally Posted by Flipper View Post
    The interested reader will note that the study, in addition to having serious flaws in methodology, begins a full year and a few months before the very first Concealed Firearms Permits were issued in North Carolina. And for the remaining 3 years, there is no accounting for whether or not any employees at businesses that allowed firearms were actually armed or had a permit when homicides occurred there. And, no description of the "controls" were provided. Thus, the businesses studies as controls may have been banks with armed security guards, airports with metal detectors, or even secure businesses withing the Raleigh Durham Research Triangle that likewise search all personal bags and use metal detectors - and - the studied cases may have been the usual targets of armed robbery such as 7-11, Stop-N-Go, and the like. If such a methodology was utilized this is an obvious study induced bias that guaranteed the results presented.

    The University of North Carolina was vehemently anti-carry following the North Carolina legislature's passage of their concealed carry bill and the subsequent signature by the governor. This may well explain the somewhat questionable methodology of the study.

    As a scientist, I find it curious that the most important aspects of any report of a study, the "Methods and Materials" description was omitted because, as the author wrote, it is "described elsewhere", but the location of "elsewhere" is not provided.
    My cats support the Second Amendment. NRA Life Member, NRA Instructor: Pistol, Rifle, & Personal Protection - NRA Certified Range Safety Officer, Utah BCI Certified Concealed Firearm Permit Instructor.
    "Permission Slips" from Utah, Pennsylvania, Nevada, Arizona, and Florida. _ Verily, thou shalt not fiddle with thine firearm whilst in the bathroom stall, lest thine spouse seek condolences from thine friends.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flipper View Post
    Here is what a fact check of Bonavia's "facts" found:

    "She implies that 80% of businesses in the other 48 states that have conceal and carry… ban guns. That is a complete and total lie. I spent the last four and a half days researching that false claim and have unequivocally determined it is a lie. No state has an 80% rate. No state even has a 30% rate. In fact, there is absolutely no verifiable sources that keep track of those statistics in any state. So, she’s merely making up a reality that does not exist. There are estimates (none go as high as 30%) but nothing that can be verified. Here in Minnesota, it is estimated and not verified that 14% of businesses do not allow guns on the premises, and those are mostly big employers like GE and other manufacturing type firms. Not your local grocery store."

    http://madisle.info/2011/08/01/jeri-...#axzz1eLvwHDSG
    Hi, Ho, Would you mine if I use this ???

    I,ve got a week left on this grave yard shift, an ten weeks of recoop time after the sliceing & diceing is done on my arm,an i'm in the mood for some fun... I've also down loaded santes nasty list of stores!!

  24. #24
    Campaign Veteran Flipper's Avatar
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    Enjoy, go to the orginal article on the link. The orginal was written by "The Admiral" on an Ashland area website. He obviously has the BS meter going on Ms. Bonavia and WAVE.
    Last edited by Flipper; 11-23-2011 at 09:30 AM.
    When in danger you can dial 911 and hope for the police to arrive a few minutes later armed with guns.
    Why do police carry guns?

    The Joyce Foundation funded firearm control empire:
    http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...lFundingR1.png

    "Everything that we see is a shadow cast by that which we do not see." - Martin Luther King Jr.

  25. #25
    Regular Member hermannr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cobra469 View Post
    That WAVE site says there is a database of business that don't allow firearms. I would like to see that. Then I know where to send letters in protest and I can make sure to spend my money at their competition. I have no quarrels about letting their competition know why I would rather support a business that uses their brains and realize these signs make kill zones.
    The "database" is probably our own friend or foe web site.

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