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Thread: Oops X 2. Pair arrested. Man for shotgun at school. GF for violating protection order

  1. #1
    Regular Member paramedic70002's Avatar
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    Oops X 2. Pair arrested. Man for shotgun at school. GF for violating protection order

    http://www.wvec.com/news/Couple-arre...134332583.html


    Jenkins was at the school waiting for his girlfriend, 27-year old Diane Hall. She was apparently talking with her child's teacher.
    Jenkins was arrested for carrying a firearm on school property. Hall was also arrested for having an active protected order out against her. That order was reportedly placed by Jenkins.
    Lots of details missing from this news story.

    Guy is sitting there looking all suspicious, apparently with the SG in plain view. I don't toss a SG in my car when I go to school, so I'm not sure what the laws are. Still, a lot of stupid to go around.

    And I know this forum is not for SG or rifle OC. Technically he wasn't carrying it, even though he was charged wit that, he just had it.
    "Each worker carried his sword strapped to his side." Nehemiah 4:18

    Guns Save Lives. Paramedics Save Lives. But...
    Paramedics With Guns Scare People!

  2. #2
    Regular Member 45acpForMe's Avatar
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    More waste of peoples time and tax dollars.

    Stupid people aren't necessarilly criminals unless the laws make them criminals.

    Mathews County is fairly rural. Too bad he didn't keep the shotgun in a gun rack.

  3. #3
    Regular Member Badger Johnson's Avatar
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    This is the crux of the WHOLE issue.

    o Innocent, law abiding citizens being made INTO criminals by stupid laws, hard-to-follow laws.

    o Cops stopping old dudes walking their dogs

    o Cops getting all 'huffy' against ordinary folks. (Note, cops don't get huffy if they're facing a potentially dangerous person, they're respectful. First sign of a bully mentality).

    o Cops making up laws on the fly. They don't want to be questioned, don't want

    o Cops with a 'them' vs 'us' mentality

    o Cops treating ordinary folks as predators - they know better, yet they still do it.

    My feeling is the cops should realize:

    1. It could be them whose rights are trampled next - so hiding behind 'we're teh elite' is gonna shoot them in the foot. Always treat the person in the street (if they let you) as a family member. This stops road rage, jealous bickering, trampling rights, etc.;
    2. Don't make up laws - you'll just get sued. See #1 - would you make up a law if you were stopping your own son on the road? No. Nor would you lie.
    3. Don't treat people like perps unless they ARE perps. Then don't treat them at all, call for backup;
    4. Don't get all hormonal on us - if you're wrong, say so. If you don't know call for a sargeant;
    5. Why make the citizens fear you when cooperation goes much further.


    $.02
    A gun in a holster is better than one drawn and dispensing bullets. Concealed forces the latter. - ixtow

    Hi, I'm hypercritical. But I mean no harm, I just like to try to look deeply at life

  4. #4
    Regular Member wylde007's Avatar
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    Exclamation

    An unloaded, stowed rifle or shotgun is not a crime. If it was not in a rack or in the trunk, then it's his arse.

    18.2-308.1

    Shall not apply to <snip>

    (vi) a person who possesses an unloaded firearm that is in a closed container, or a knife having a metal blade, in or upon a motor vehicle, or an unloaded shotgun or rifle in a firearms rack in or upon a motor vehicle
    The quiet war has begun, with silent weapons
    And the newest slavery is to keep the people poor, and stupid
    Novos ordo seclorum ~ Mustaine

    Never argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

  5. #5
    Regular Member 45acpForMe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wylde007 View Post
    An unloaded, stowed rifle or shotgun is not a crime. If it was not in a rack or in the trunk, then it's his arse.

    18.2-308.1

    Shall not apply to <snip>

    (vi) a person who possesses an unloaded firearm that is in a closed container, or a knife having a metal blade, in or upon a motor vehicle, or an unloaded shotgun or rifle in a firearms rack in or upon a motor vehicle
    The article says it was loaded so that is a no-no right away. They say it was "in back" so it doesn't sound like a rifle rack but unclear at this point.
    Troopers found 25-year old Duane Jenkins and a four-door Ford with a loaded shotgun inside it.

    ETA: You also have to be careful what you considered stowed. In a case or rifle rack or trunk are good. Under a blanket, not so much. Then again if it was under a blanket or something none of this would have happened.
    Last edited by 45acpForMe; 11-22-2011 at 03:56 PM.

  6. #6
    Regular Member wylde007's Avatar
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    Thumbs down

    I said that if it didn't meet the criteria of the argument then it was his arse.
    The quiet war has begun, with silent weapons
    And the newest slavery is to keep the people poor, and stupid
    Novos ordo seclorum ~ Mustaine

    Never argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

  7. #7
    Regular Member 45acpForMe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wylde007 View Post
    I said that if it didn't meet the criteria of the argument then it was his arse.
    I agree but think the argument (law) is flawed to put it mildly.

  8. #8
    Regular Member The Wolfhound's Avatar
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    I keep getting more radical......

    I think I am finally at the point where I can belive that no laws should concern firearms. What my behavior is could be the focus of a law but not the presence of a firearm. If I am exhibiting menacing behaviors, the presence of a firearm is irrelevant. If I am commiting some other felony, the presence of a firearm is irrelevant. It is my intent that makes me a criminal if anything does. Crossing an imaginary line (a state or city border) being in a special place (school zone or airport) or even having a history but having paid a debt to society does not rise to criminality if there is no intent to do evil. Self Defense is a basic human right, Recognized by the Second Ammendment. "SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED" is all government should have to remember. Evil actions and evil intentions should be the standard for crime. Our benevolent government has damn near made breathing in the presence of a firearm a felony.

    One of my favorite authors once quipped: Love your country, but fear your government. Truer words are hard to find.

  9. #9
    Regular Member 45acpForMe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Wolfhound View Post
    Love your country, but fear your government. Truer words are hard to find.
    I agree with your thoughts. As far as the above I can improve it: Love your country, distrust your government, but fear God!

    In the end all the a$$inine politicians and anti-freedom crowd will have to answer to their maker.

  10. #10
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Pretty much stupidity I think. As already mentioned, it's a rural county so a loaded shotgun is obligatory.

    My gun rack in the Bubba Buggy, only holds two and it's always full with one or two others on the back seat. I don't own any unloaded guns. Same with both trucks.

    I also had to ride with my wife to vote because I knew better than take the buggy or my truck and my son borrowed the car.

  11. #11
    Regular Member wylde007's Avatar
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    Talking

    Quote Originally Posted by The Wolfhound View Post
    I think I am finally at the point where I can belive that no laws should concern firearms.
    I actually just had someone block me on Facebook for expressing that exact sentiment on the VGOF group page!

    The quiet war has begun, with silent weapons
    And the newest slavery is to keep the people poor, and stupid
    Novos ordo seclorum ~ Mustaine

    Never argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

  12. #12
    Accomplished Advocate user's Avatar
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    "That government is best, which governs least."

    (Go to a law library and take a look at the Code of Virginia, the Virginia Administrative Code, the United States Code, and above all, the Code of Federal Regulations to see whether our current governmental scheme is "best".)
    Daniel L. Hawes - 540 347 2430 - HTTP://www.VirginiaLegalDefense.com

    By the way, nothing I say on this website as "user" should be taken as either advertising for attorney services or legal advice, merely personal opinion. Everyone having a question regarding the application of law to the facts of their situation should seek the advice of an attorney competent in the subject matter of the issues presented and licensed to practice in the relevant state.

  13. #13
    Regular Member Repeater's Avatar
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    Where was the specific intent to cause a crime of violence?

    Oh wait, the law does not require that. Gee, do you suppose Commonwealth's Attorneys prefer STRICT LIABILITY laws?

    Sure.

  14. #14
    Accomplished Advocate user's Avatar
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    As a technical matter, there are only two "strict liability" offenses in Virginia: manslaughter and statutory rape. Everything else requires intent, but intent comes in two flavors: specific intent and general intent. If a statute uses words like "willfully", "intentionally", "recklessly", "maliciously", or "with lewd and lascivious intent", then that statute creates a specific intent offense.

    On the other hand, criminal trespass is a general intent offense. Stepping on a particular piece of dirt after having been told to "stay off my land", where that piece of dirt is part of "my land", it doesn't make the slightest bit of difference whether you knew trespass was illegal, or even whether you thought that dirt was yours. The intent required is merely to set foot on that spot.

    That's also the difference between murder-one and murder-two, by the way: first degree murder is a specific intent offense, while second degree murder is a general intent offense. Even if you have no intention of killing anyone, but you put on a blindfold in a shopping mall, spin around three times and start shooting in random directions, but happen to kill someone, that was the general intent to kill - taking action likely to have that effect, regardless of whether you specifically intended to kill anyone.
    Daniel L. Hawes - 540 347 2430 - HTTP://www.VirginiaLegalDefense.com

    By the way, nothing I say on this website as "user" should be taken as either advertising for attorney services or legal advice, merely personal opinion. Everyone having a question regarding the application of law to the facts of their situation should seek the advice of an attorney competent in the subject matter of the issues presented and licensed to practice in the relevant state.

  15. #15
    Regular Member 45acpForMe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by user View Post
    As a technical matter, there are only two "strict liability" offenses in Virginia: manslaughter and statutory rape. Everything else requires intent, but intent comes in two flavors: specific intent and general intent. If a statute uses words like "willfully", "intentionally", "recklessly", "maliciously", or "with lewd and lascivious intent", then that statute creates a specific intent offense.

    On the other hand, criminal trespass is a general intent offense. Stepping on a particular piece of dirt after having been told to "stay off my land", where that piece of dirt is part of "my land", it doesn't make the slightest bit of difference whether you knew trespass was illegal, or even whether you thought that dirt was yours. The intent required is merely to set foot on that spot.

    That's also the difference between murder-one and murder-two, by the way: first degree murder is a specific intent offense, while second degree murder is a general intent offense. Even if you have no intention of killing anyone, but you put on a blindfold in a shopping mall, spin around three times and start shooting in random directions, but happen to kill someone, that was the general intent to kill - taking action likely to have that effect, regardless of whether you specifically intended to kill anyone.
    Is the assumption that if you bring a gun on school property there is a general intent to do evil? That is proven to be false every day I take my daughters to school or pick them up.

    I could see if you were caught in a drug deal on school property and had a gun in your possession that they could assume the gun was there in participation of the criminal action. Even then though, unless you pull it out and start shooting you shouldn't be charged with a criminal gun charge. I guess I "feel" that by reiterating my views on liberty that eventually reality will conform to how it should be. :-( I also guess that I am deluded.

  16. #16
    Regular Member MilProGuy's Avatar
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    A firearm carried onto school property is asking for trouble...and he got it.

    Life has it's choices...and all choices have consequences.
    Last edited by MilProGuy; 11-23-2011 at 10:13 PM. Reason: edited for clarity
    Proud Veteran ~ U.S. Army / Army Reserve

    Mississippi State Guard ~ Honorably Retired


  17. #17
    Regular Member 2a4all's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MilProGuy View Post
    A firearm carried onto school property is asking for trouble...and he got it.

    Life has it's choices...and all choices have consequences.
    Not exactly. There are exceptions to the prohibition of carrying a firearm onto school property, specifically, if one has a CHP, it is permitted to carry a concealed handgun onto school property to drop off or pick up a student provided that the weapon remains concealed and the bearer remains in the vehicle, or the handgun may be secured in a container such as a glove box or console whether or not the bearer has a CHP, but such action must be taken prior to entering school property. (Long guns must be unloaded and cased or stowed in a rack/trunk.) If the firearm is so stored, you may exit the vehicle.

    http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp...0+cod+18.2-308
    Last edited by 2a4all; 11-24-2011 at 12:01 AM.
    A law-abiding citizen should be able to carry his personal protection firearm anywhere that an armed criminal might go.

    Member VCDL, NRA

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