Milford Permit Appllication Problems?

Equestrian714 said:

Sorry maybe I didn't make myself clear. When I went to go get my local temporary I was told by a board member that I could go to any branch and get finger prints. In fact that maybe the troop you are referring to does to finger prints however they will ask you what the finger prints are for therefore they refered me to the Middletown branch

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You can go to any branch of any PD. The law does not say who must do your prints, so that means, by law, there is no requirement.

The woman at Troop G clearly didn't know the law. This is again where knowing the law works in your favor. Listen to RichB's audio from his recent visit to OSPD. When the guy says he needs rich's pistol permit, replies IMMEDIATELY "No I don't"
He knows the law, at least this one anyway, and makes it work for him.

Seriously, I'm not breaking your stones. Just trying to clarify who told you what.

You should take 2 additional lessons away from this:
1) Most police don't know the law. Sad but true.
2) When they do, they will lie about it if it suits their purpose. Most of the time, its not malicious. They are just trying to do their job with the minimum hassle possible. Even if it means trampling on your rights. Case in point. You OC into a restaurant and a woman calls 911. The cop typically doesn't want to arrest you. The cop just wants the complainant to stop complaining, so he can get on with his day. So he tells you to put the gun in the car, even though the restaurant owner says that if its legal, its ok with him. Does the cop have a right to tell you that? No. Does he care? No. Is he being malicious? No. he just wants the lady who dialed 911 to go back and finish her lunch, you to put your gun in the car and finish your lunch so he can leave.

If you disobey his unlawful order and piss him off; if you are not a squirming, compliant subject, then he may start to think "what can i get this guy on". But when he walked into that restaurant, he most likely did not want to arrest you.

Thanks,

Don

dcmdon said:

You can go to any branch of any PD. The law does not say who must do your prints, so that means, by law, there is no requirement.

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Yes, but there is also no law that says any PD MUST take your prints. Therefore, any state trooper barracks should suffice.

I'm glad I now know about how to direct the prints. I'm thinking when I do my writeup on the website to add XXX PD and attention YYY where YYY can actually be one of two people..... The Chief or the person in charge of printing. I'm leaning on Chief, as that is the individual I would send my application to.

Thoughts?

Jonathan

there is no law that says any PD must agree to take your prints. But that is where knowing your way around bureaucracies and not being afraid to escalate comes into play.
If my local PD refused, I'd be talking to the chief. if the Chief refused, I'd be talking to the police board. . If they refused, I'd be talking to the Mayor/Town Manager/First Selectman.

On a practical level, you won't have any trouble getting your prints taken.

I'd love to see you go that route in Hartford or even New Haven.

I can just about guarantee that those citizens would have to hit troop barracks, and that's a sad statement of the politicization of our civil rights.

Jonathan

Well, then thats fine. You get your prints at the DPS location of your choice, then mail it into the local PD. Done.

Don

p.s. New Haven I've heard is n't that bad. they have al the extra crap, but their turnaround time is supposed to be reasonable.

As I understand it, we don't mail anything, that's what we pay DPS to handle.

Who's to say if they gave them back to us, the prints we turn in are really ours?

New Haven has actually gotten bad. They lost the last three rounds at BFPE because of change in responsibilities and such and at least a half dozen appellants got their permits because of the process on their end.

New Haven, however, said that won't happen again......... YMMV,

Jonathan

I should have said that you mail the print cards in with your permit app, your checks and you're done.

The DPS does not send the prints to the issuing authority if they do them for you. They just hand you the cards completed fingerprint cards and you are on your way. You put the cards with the app and the required checks in an envelope and mail it certified to the local issuing authority.

So they DO give them back to the applicant. The officer who takes the prints checks your ID and documents it on the fingerprint cards.

Don

That is indeed not how I see it.

I have known people to get the fingerprints done, that is then used for the background. SLFU handles the background and forwards the results to the local issuing authority.

If they give them back to you, that is a poor process as far as chain of custody goes..... I can have a friend with clean prints get tossed in there (assuming he never had prints taken for work). Just seems odd that they'd give them back!

Jonathan

dcmdon said:

I should have said that you mail the print cards in with your permit app, your checks and you're done.

The DPS does not send the prints to the issuing authority if they do them for you. They just hand you the cards completed fingerprint cards and you are on your way. You put the cards with the app and the required checks in an envelope and mail it certified to the local issuing authority.

So they DO give them back to the applicant. The officer who takes the prints checks your ID and documents it on the fingerprint cards.

Don

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+1

This is how it works.

KIX said:

SLFU handles the background and forwards the results to the local issuing authority.

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Local issuing authority gets application and fingerprints.
Local issuing authority sends fingerprints to SPBI.
SPBI packages fingerprints into electronic bundle and sends to the FBI.
FBI's automated system does the background check and compiles into a report.
FBI report is returned to SPBI.
SPBI sends FBI report back to local issuing authority.


Get your prints done at DPS, send application, fingerprints and necessary checks/money orders in via certified mail. Don is correct.

KIX said:

That is indeed not how I see it.

I have known people to get the fingerprints done, that is then used for the background. SLFU handles the background and forwards the results to the local issuing authority.

If they give them back to you, that is a poor process as far as chain of custody goes..... I can have a friend with clean prints get tossed in there (assuming he never had prints taken for work). Just seems odd that they'd give them back!

Jonathan

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You are incorrect. The prints must be submitted as part of a complete application to the local issuing authority. So if you have the prints done by the DPS/State Police, you are then given the cards to enclose with the rest of your app which you submit to the local issuing authority.

The issuing authority then submits the cards to the DPS-SPBI. This is not as screwy as it sounds since 99% of the fingerprint cards are created by the local issuing authority anyway.

Lets use your scenario of the friend with clean prints. He shows up at the DPS and gets fingerprinted. The officer doing it checks his CT drivers license and writes the name on the license on the fingerprint card.

How is it easy to get around that? Remember, these process depend on people being law abiding for them to work.

Don

http://www.cga.ct.gov/current/pub/chap529.htm#Sec29-28a.htm

Equestrian714 said:

When they're taking your information for AFIS they ask you who these are going to and you tell them Milford PD or whomever they are going to (even though they give you copies to submit with your application) she also asked me what this was for and I told her a pistol permit application, since there is a spot on the printout of the prints what application this is for.

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This is what got me on the other line of thinking. I've helped about 160-170 people with the process, but haven't run into this yet..... but will be in Hartford, hence the questioning. Didn't get the "copy" bit.

It is insane that we even have to have this discussion!

Jonathan

KIX said:

This is what got me on the other line of thinking. I've helped about 160-170 people with the process, but haven't run into this yet..... but will be in Hartford, hence the questioning. Didn't get the "copy" bit.

It is insane that we even have to have this discussion!

Jonathan

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Whatever they do with the AFIS is irrelevant. Let them send them to the North Pole. The reality is that hard copies are better and the only copies that matter, given the current process. (There is no way for the DPS-SPBI to submit electronic prints to the FBI, so they just end up printing them out anyway)

I have just confirmed that Troop F in Westbrook will do your prints electronically or with the old ink and card method. Your choice.
The trooper I spoke with said that she believed that any barracks could accomodate a request for an ink and card type of fingerprinting. (Its their fall back in case the electronic system breaks)

I have also just spoken with Troop ? in Hartford. They will do fingerprints for you on cards that you provide. You can order them from the FBI here: (304) 625-4543
Or download the PDF from the FBI and use that: http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/background-checks/standard-fingerprint-form-fd-258

So again, go get your hands dirty, take the cards with you and include it with your "package" that you submit with your application and checks.

Don

Gotcha.

As much as I've done this, never ran into this issue.

Just seems odd to take prints at a troop barracks, bring them to the local PD, who will send them back to the state again......

Kinda like the "Department of Redundancy Dept."

Jonathan

KIX said:

This is what got me on the other line of thinking. I've helped about 160-170 people with the process, but haven't run into this yet..... but will be in Hartford, hence the questioning. Didn't get the "copy" bit.

It is insane that we even have to have this discussion!

Jonathan

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Like I said above, its not as irrational as it seems because 99% of the time, prints are taken by the local issuing authority.

dcmdon said:

its not as irrational as it seems because 99% of the time, prints are taken by the local issuing authority.

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I think it's going to get lower! People are finding our discussions here, my site and learning their rights. Once more realize they are better off sticking to the statutes rather than jumping through local issuing authority hoops, things will get better.

In order for this to really get better, they need to get their BFPE hearings earlier.

Jonathan

Too add some more information to this I'll tell you that when I filed for my non-resident permit I went to DPS off I-91 exit 21 and got my prints done there. I then submitted everything via mail directly to the state and got my non-resident permit in the mail. I never had to go to a police dept or deal with any issuing authority. By the time I had gotten my permit I had fully moved to CT so I called DPS and notified them of my change of address and they instructed me to use a sticker on the back of the permit to show my new address and that there was no need to have a new permit issued.

Last year I went to Troop G and renewed and got my current address finally printed on my permit.

Case closed. It was the easiest process I could ever have hoped for..... BUT thats because I avoided the local PD all together.

I should also mention that I already held a valid FL permit at the time.

Shawn Mitola said:

BUT thats because I avoided the local PD all together.

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Therein lies the biggest problem..... didn't need the fiefdom.

Also, sad that it is easier for an out of state person to get a permit than an actual citizen of the state. Not that it should matter either way mind you, but you'd think the other way around SHOULD be easier.

Jonathan

yeah Kix and it is just this state to.

When I applied for my FL permit I was half living in CT I mailed the application to FL FROM CT and when the 8 weeks had ran up they mailed me my permit to my apt in CT. I never was even in FL for any of the process. I did everything through the mail except for getting my picture taken and my fingerprints done.

MA is another one that is cleaner for a non-resident. There you are at the mercy of the local CLEO. Completely at their mercy, since you don't have any recourse available to you like we have here in the BFPE.
In contrast, a non-resident MA applicant deals directly with the DPS. Basically, if you're not a prohibited person you get your permit.

As I'm sure some of you are aware, Philli residents are doing something interesting. Its nearly impossible to get a PA permit if you live in Philli. But PA recognizes FL or UT's license. (can't remember which). So Philli residents are getting FL/UT non-resident permits which allows them to carry in Philli. Amazing.

Don