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Thread: Brightwater facility vs. RCW 9.41.290

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    Regular Member John Hardin's Avatar
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    Brightwater facility vs. RCW 9.41.290

    I was poking around on the website for the Brightwater waste treatment facility (which has several miles of public hiking trails) and saw that they (attempt to) prohibit firearms in violation of 9.41.290:

    http://www.kingcounty.gov/environmen...ark/rules.aspx

    I sent them a note via their Contact page. Anybody else care to join in?

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    Campaign Veteran MSG Laigaie's Avatar
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    I sent an email asking they not misinform the public by misleading signage.
    "Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the people's liberty teeth (and) keystone... the rifle and the pistol are equally indispensable... more than 99% of them by their silence indicate that they are in safe and sane hands. The very atmosphere of firearms everywhere restrains evil interference .When firearms go, all goes, we need them every hour." -- George Washington

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    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    Is it Brightwater that came up with this "rule" or did they merely copy a King County Park Reg?
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

    "If you refuse to stand up for others now, who will stand up for you when your time comes?"

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    I believe that Brightwater is under the King County Parks umbrella, and therefore must comply. Go to their website and read very carefully.
    Last edited by Trigger Dr; 11-23-2011 at 08:56 PM.

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    Regular Member MadHatter66's Avatar
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    It would appear that they are in violation of .290 being that they are a government run facility and the park is under King County Natural Resources and Parks. It appears, from what I have found poking around the King Co site that Brightwater is just adopting the King Co park rules and not making up their own. I do, however find it funny that its not even in King Co....Looks like it would be a nice place to take a walk with the dog actually...

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    Future Bar b que site?

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    Regular Member MadHatter66's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trigger Dr View Post
    Future Bar b que site?
    Sadly the place looks too "upscale" for a BBQ

    So here is a question... its in Snoho County physically... and its King Co property giving KCSO legal jurisdiction to enforce laws and take reports... So who shows up when the cops are called for the MWAG?

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    Campaign Veteran MSG Laigaie's Avatar
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    I rec'd a rapid (altho automatic) response. message as follows:

    "Thank you for contacting us. Your message has been sent to the King County Natural Resources and Parks staff. Someone will get back to you as soon as possible. Thank you for using the King County Web site: www.kingcounty.gov"

    As the man said in "under siege".... "We shall see what we shall see!"
    "Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the people's liberty teeth (and) keystone... the rifle and the pistol are equally indispensable... more than 99% of them by their silence indicate that they are in safe and sane hands. The very atmosphere of firearms everywhere restrains evil interference .When firearms go, all goes, we need them every hour." -- George Washington

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    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trigger Dr View Post
    Future Bar b que site?
    Somehow the idea of a BBQ at a Sewage Treatment Plant doesn't have much zing to it. That's where most think of sending their meal when they're done with it, not necessarily a place they'd desire going to to "consume" one.
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

    "If you refuse to stand up for others now, who will stand up for you when your time comes?"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trigger Dr View Post
    Future Bar b que site?
    Did you mean post Bar b que site, right.

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    Visited today

    I visited the park earlier today with the kids. It was a little chilly and breezy, so I was sloppy carrying. I did not see any posted rules, but I was only in the areas north of the parking lot. When my kids arrived back home they exclaimed to Mom that "It was awesome!". The next time it's pouring rain we'll return to see the art that's attached to the downspouts of one of the buildings - should be cool.

    The Environmental Education and Community center included two classrooms. There was also a sign that said this:

    "Brightwater's amenities were made possible by community support. Over 60 groups, neighbors, and educators came together and asked for a park, gathering place, and environmental learning center. This vision was made possible thanks to a unique partnership between King County and Friends of the Hidden River, a local non-profit organization made up of teachers."

    So I imagine the facilities will be used from time to time for school-related activities.

    I did not see any typical picnic/bbq type facilities, but it looks like there's more work to be done.
    Last edited by geojohn; 11-25-2011 at 07:04 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MadHatter66 View Post
    Sadly the place looks too "upscale" for a BBQ

    So here is a question... its in Snoho County physically... and its King Co property giving KCSO legal jurisdiction to enforce laws and take reports... So who shows up when the cops are called for the MWAG?
    One would think that jurisdiction falls under Snohomish County and any crimes committed there would be prosecuted in SnoCo Superior Court. Since the facility is not within city boundaries a MWAG LE response will most likely come from SCSO.

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    Campaign Veteran OlGutshotWilly's Avatar
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    friends of the hidden river
    ????
    LOL! There is actually a group that calls itself that? Friends of the hidden river of poop flowing into the plant? Ok,Ok.....I'm sorry, I do know they support the Little Bear Creek, but it's still funny.

    I'm about 10 minutes from the site. Looks like I'll have to take a stroll there when the weather perks up.

    It is interesting that it is a King county facility with the actual plant situated in Snohomish county. Woodinville has put considerable effort into annexing the Grace township for a number of years, so far to no avail. So Snohomish agencies still respond to the Grace Industrial neighborhood, with mutual aid from King County.

    http://www.ci.woodinville.wa.us/Docu...d MP DRAFT.pdf
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    Regular Member MadHatter66's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fight4your_rights View Post
    One would think that jurisdiction falls under Snohomish County and any crimes committed there would be prosecuted in SnoCo Superior Court. Since the facility is not within city boundaries a MWAG LE response will most likely come from SCSO.
    Right,as a MWAG would be an in progress crime they probably have a mutual aid agreement set up. Probably something along the lines of Snoho will respond to in progress crimes and KingCo will handle not in progress and property crimes there and back Snoho on in progress details...
    Last edited by MadHatter66; 11-26-2011 at 10:58 PM.

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    Just to clarify, there is a sign posted at the park that is identical to the one shown on the website. The sign is located just to the west of the south end of the parking lot.

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    Campaign Veteran MSG Laigaie's Avatar
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    This came today.

    Hello Mr. Laigaie,
    Thank you for bringing this to our attention. We are researching this issue and will provide a response within a week.

    Thanks for contacting King County.


    James (Jamie) Foulk | environmental planning & community relations
    wastewater treatment division | king county
    ph. 206-684-1942 | fax: 206-684-1278
    email: james.foulk@kingcounty.gov
    Web: www.kingcounty.gov/wtd/
    "Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the people's liberty teeth (and) keystone... the rifle and the pistol are equally indispensable... more than 99% of them by their silence indicate that they are in safe and sane hands. The very atmosphere of firearms everywhere restrains evil interference .When firearms go, all goes, we need them every hour." -- George Washington

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    Regular Member John Hardin's Avatar
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    Response received:
    From: "Freed, David" <David.Freed@kingcounty.gov>

    Dear Mr. Hardin:

    I am writing in response to your email from November 23, included below. As I understand it, you believe that our rules for use of the public areas at Brightwater are not correct because they prohibit firearms in the public areas.

    As you have indicated, under State law (RCW 9.41.290), the County cannot restrict the possession of firearms by persons visiting the public areas of the site. However, pursuant to RCW 9.41.300 the County and other municipalities may enact ordinances restricting the discharge of firearms in any portion of their respective jurisdictions where they feel that there is a reasonable likelihood that humans, domestic animals, or property will be jeopardized.

    With that in mind, we will be looking to make the rules listed on our web site more in keeping with their intent, which was dealing with the discharge and use of weapons, not specifically with possessing them. I will also mention this to the project managers to look into whether we need to change or clarify the signs as well.

    I hope this addresses your concerns. Please feel free to contact me if you have any other questions.

    Regards,

    David Freed
    King Co. Brightwater Project
    22505 SR-9
    Woodinville, WA 98072
    206-263-9453
    My reply:
    This does address my concerns, so long as the rules respect self defense as provided in RCW 9.41.300(2)(a), and signage is not worded such that it may be interpreted by someone not familiar with the statute as a restriction on lawful possession of a firearm in the park, and such revisions don't take an inordinate amount of time to implement.

    Thank you!

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    Regular Member MadHatter66's Avatar
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    That's too funny... I think "No Firearms or Weapons" is pretty clear in the intent to not allow firearms or weapons on their premises. It does not appear to speak to discharge and use of weapons in any way shape or form. Nice try on their part though

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    Campaign Veteran MSG Laigaie's Avatar
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    "John Hardin
    Response received:
    From: "Freed, David" <David.Freed@kingcounty.gov>

    Dear Mr. Hardin:

    I am writing in response to your email from November 23, included below. As I understand it, you believe that our rules for use of the public areas at Brightwater are not correct because they prohibit firearms in the public areas............................................. ."


    I found the same message in my email today. ( It had my name on it tho, not John Hardin). Maybe I will send him the same response you did.
    Last edited by MSG Laigaie; 12-06-2011 at 01:24 PM.
    "Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the people's liberty teeth (and) keystone... the rifle and the pistol are equally indispensable... more than 99% of them by their silence indicate that they are in safe and sane hands. The very atmosphere of firearms everywhere restrains evil interference .When firearms go, all goes, we need them every hour." -- George Washington

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    Regular Member John Hardin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MSG Laigaie View Post
    I found the same message in my email today. ( It had my name on it tho, not John Hardin). Maybe I will send him the same response you did.
    Feel free to use my ideas, but make sure to use your own words. We don't want to come off as robots.
    Last edited by John Hardin; 12-07-2011 at 09:54 AM.

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    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Hardin View Post
    Feel free to use my ideas, but make sure to use your own words. We don't want to come off as robots.
    Isn't that what politicians view us as anyway? For that matter they view all voters as robots that will keep on voting for the same old hacks that run for office rather than demanding different.

    How else does Patty Murray get elected time after time?
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

    "If you refuse to stand up for others now, who will stand up for you when your time comes?"

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    Campaign Veteran OlGutshotWilly's Avatar
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    It was my impression that Patty Murray is elected by the citizens of Seattle for the most part. She does not represent the interests of the majority of the State.

    I consistently write letters to Inslee/Cantwell/ Murray and keep getting the same regurgitated pablum that they send out to all that disagree with them, and they vote the party line everytime.
    THE SECOND AMENDMENT: Washington didn't use his right to free speech to defeat the British, he shot them.
    ---------------------------------------------
    Government is not reason; it is not eloquent -- it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master."
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    Sign changed

    I visited this park today and the sign at the park has been changed to read: "No use of firearms or weapons"

    The text on the web site is changed as well.

    So it seems those who brought this to their attention had the desired effect. Good job!
    Last edited by geojohn; 04-29-2012 at 10:40 PM.
    Hoplophobia is a social disease.

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    Regular Member hermannr's Avatar
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    Those that Emailed sould send a short "Thank you". I'll bet that would really surprise them.

  25. #25
    Regular Member Freedom1Man's Avatar
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    I thought that the whole bright water thing violated some other laws too.

    It's in Snoco and the $#!^ is coming from kingco.

    I thought that there was a law governing the location of sewage treatment plants.
    Provision for free medical attendance and nursing, for clothing, for food, for housing, for the education of children, and a hundred other matters, might with equal propriety be proposed as tending to relieve the employee of mental strain and worry. --- These matters obviously lie outside the orbit of congressional power. (Railroad Retirement Board v Alton Railroad)

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