Saw a no guns sign! Harvey's in Saginaw.

First one I've ever noticed. Had lunch at Harvey's grill and bar in saginaw today. As we're walking up to the door I see a small sign with a crossed out handgun. Sad to know that Harvey's wants to make sure criminals will be safe at their business. Should I call, email, write a letter or something to complain?

I sent a message through their "contact us" form on their website. Let them know that even thought the food and service has always been great I will no longer visit them due to their no guns rule.

You can contact them from this website if anyone else wanted to comment.
https://harveysgrillandbar.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=10&Itemid=5

Sent them the following email.

To whom it may concern;

My name is ***, and I frequent Harvey's when I visit my parents up in Gladwin. I have recently been informed of your 'no gun' policy posted on your door. Though I understand that you try and create a family atmosphere for all at Harvey's, I encourage you to re-think this policy. As a lawful firearms owner and a daily carrier of a handgun with a Concealed Pistol License, I know for 100% positive that a simple sign will not deter crime from your establishment, and it would be silly to believe that it would. I encourage you to watch this short YouTube video on 'Gun Free Zones' when you finish reading this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7pGt_O1uM8

Though I do like your establishment and do wish to return, I simply cannot bring myself to frequent your location with a no firearms sign posted. Myself, as well as every other person with a Michigan Concealed Pistol License are all law abiding citizens, and you have absolutely nothing to worry about from the 'good guys'.

Sincerely,
***
Secretary,
Michigan Open Carry Inc.

I too sent one off this evening

I was informed today that at your Saginaw location you have posted a sign indicating you do not allow handguns in your establishment. I can only assume that you have the same policy at your Bay City location as well.

I would like to thank you for posting that sign and making your business a Criminal Empowerment Zone!

You see, when you post a sign like that, you are telling criminals that your place of business is a Gun Free Zone and thus an easy target for their criminal activities!

FBI studies show that criminals will think twice about committing crimes where they know people are legally allowed to carry handguns.

When you deprive legal gun owners like me from carrying handguns into your establishment for self-protection, you are telling me that you consider my life worthless and not worth protecting.

Therefore, I for one will never set foot inside either of your two locations as long as you keep this current policy. I will also publish the fact that you support a Criminal Empowerment Zones on the many gun forums in Michigan thus informing other legal gun owners of your policy. This will serve them notice not to spend money at your business since you deprive us of our 2nd Amendment rights under the Constitution of the United States and Section 6 of the Michigan Constitution, to wit: The Right to Bare Arms.

According to recently published reports, Michigan has about 344,000 citizens who are legally licensed to carry a handgun. Each one of those 344,000 legal handgun owners has gone through an extensive background checks by their County sheriff (or City Police), the Michigan State police and the FBI. Not to mention the safety training required by the state, BEFORE they will receive their Michigan Concealed Pistol Permit. That’s a lot of people and money you seem not to want in your business.

With all that said, I understand your concern. You have no idea who is bringing in a handgun into your business. Now with your signs up, can rest easy in knowing that whoever has a handgun in your business are CRIMINALS since legal handgun owners will either follow your request and leave their guns at home or not visit you place at all.

I have no desire to put my life in jeopardy by leaving my safety up to you. I believe that a Majority of the 344,000 other citizens who have been issued a License to carry a handgun in this state may just feel the same way!

Sincerely,

hopefully they understand that you are referring to firearms and not a dress code policy

smellslikemichigan said:

hopefully they understand that you are referring to firearms and not a dress code policy

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snickers

smellslikemichigan said:

hopefully they understand that you are referring to firearms and not a dress code policy

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I though firearms was a dress code policy!

For some of us, it is.

stainless1911 said:

For some of us, it is.

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I sent them an email via their contact form, no response, SURPRISE! SURPRISE! SURPRISE!

I haven't seen a reply either. Thanks for helping out.

Having searched as much of the statutes as I can, I have been unable to locate what the pistol with the slash through it means. Or what the penalties for disregarding it are.

CV67 PAT said:

Having searched as much of the statutes as I can, I have been unable to locate what the pistol with the slash through it means. Or what the penalties for disregarding it are.

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I think the reasonable person thing would have to apply. Would a reasonable person assume that means no revolvers? Or is it a picture of a semi-auto so no semi auto's? I would guess then that shotguns and AR-15's would be ok since those aren't pictured.

smellslikemichigan said:

hopefully they understand that you are referring to firearms and not a dress code policy

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+1
Too often we write letters / emails in haste & forgo proofreading, sometimes even logic,
which when chatting with friends isn't such a big deal,
but if we end up looking like uneducated bumpkins when dealing with someone whose mind we're trying to change, do you think they're likely to be swayed by our position?

I'm not picking on anyone who has posted here, or at least not any more than I'm 'picking on' everyone who's done the same thing. I'm trying to get people to think about the image you're making & if that's really what you want people to see. Also, is that image likely to achieve the ends you desire?

Like it or not, using proper grammer, spelling, etc. comes across a lot better than friend-level proofreading or conversation.

T1mH said:

I think the reasonable person thing would have to apply. Would a reasonable person assume that means no revolvers? Or is it a picture of a semi-auto so no semi auto's? I would guess then that shotguns and AR-15's would be ok since those aren't pictured.

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So a reasonable person would assume that the little picture is meaningless?

This might sound naive, but what about calling the city attorney (or prosecutor) and inquire what the mean of the signs is, and if there is a requirement for the size and wording of any such sign. It's not clear whether a person who was farsighted and left their reading glasses at home and didn't see a 'little sign', or it was too far off to the side or not at all entrances, and didn't reference any 'trespassers will be prosecuted' warning could be used to arrest someone at the first instance.

Even better, have YOUR lawyer research it (or the Michigan OC or DC league or what have you's lawyer) and get back to you.

Telling a business owner you won't frequent his business is probably less effective than getting across to him the liability issues such a sign entails, though.

Good luck.

$.02

I was right by Harvey's yesterday so I drove by the entrance. I couldn't see the no guns sign anywhere. Never heard back from them but it seems they took the sign down. Thanks for the emails everyone. I also drove by the one in Bay City a couple weeks ago and couldn't see any no guns signs. I don't know if they ever had one, was just checking.

I realize a simple sign with a gun slashed out may not be anything near what is legally required to show a place does not allow guns but its intent is still obvious. They may not be able to have the cops do something about you but they were still showing they are anti-gun.

qqq1 said:

I was right by Harvey's yesterday so I drove by the entrance. I couldn't see the no guns sign anywhere. Never heard back from them but it seems they took the sign down. Thanks for the emails everyone. I also drove by the one in Bay City a couple weeks ago and couldn't see any no guns signs. I don't know if they ever had one, was just checking.

I realize a simple sign with a gun slashed out may not be anything near what is legally required to show a place does not allow guns but its intent is still obvious. They may not be able to have the cops do something about you but they were still showing they are anti-gun.

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same here Ive never heard back from them either!

This is strange, very strange indeed?

Hello all,

My understanding is that Harvey's is owned by the same gentleman that owns Hayden's in Westland, MI. They [Hayden's] have always welcomed legal open carry and I have attended several OC dinners there not to mention I go there often for lunch.
To my knowledge the owner {Brent} is very Pro 2A. Many of his managers are veterans of our armed forces. I am wondering if the sign was placed by management [doubt it] or someone just on the staff??? Anyways, please continue to support this restaurant owner for his pro 2A / pro civil rights stance. To the best of my knowledge he is a stand up guy, I can't see that changing anytime soon.

Regards,

G9OS