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Thread: DOJ Requesting More Staffing For CCW Applications

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    Regular Member Outdoorsman1's Avatar
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    DOJ Requesting More Staffing For CCW Applications

    Here...

    http://www.thewheelerreport.com/rele...23/1123jfc.pdf

    I am still not here....

    Outdoorsman1
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    Regular Member wild boar's Avatar
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    Cool I'm not sure if the application...

    ...are within the expected numbers, lower' or higher. If expectations of the DOJ are met, with regards to the number of applicants, thats about 1,700 per county, wow, thats a lot of powder. boar out.
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    Regular Member davegran's Avatar
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    Cool 44,000 applications in the first 20 days!

    Quote Originally Posted by Outdoorsman1 View Post
    Here...

    http://www.thewheelerreport.com/rele...23/1123jfc.pdf

    I am still not here....

    Outdoorsman1
    If only you were here I could thank you for the DOJ request! It has some very interesting stuff in it. Like the fact that there were 44,000 applications in the first 20 days, and their goal is to go to a completely electronic concealed carry application process by Fiscal Year 2012 - 2013!

    One thing struck me as not correct though. The author, Peter Kirby, Executive Budget and Policy Analyst, states that, "There will be sufficient revenue to support this request." And then goes on to quote figures that suggest the revenue will be MORE THAN ENOUGH to cover costs. Yet Act 35 states,
    175.60 (7)
    (c) A license fee in an amount, as determined by the
    department by rule, that is equal to the cost of issuing the
    license but does not exceed $37. The department shall
    determine the costs of issuing a license by using a 5−year
    planning period.
    (d) A fee for a background check that is equal to the
    fee charged under s. 175.35 (2i).
    This program, by law, is not supposed to turn into a cash cow for the DOJ and if the costs of licensing are lower than $37.00, we early applicants should get a refund of the difference.
    Last edited by davegran; 11-23-2011 at 05:51 PM.
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    Regular Member msteinhilber's Avatar
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    Six weeks to train those whom are processing applications?

    Talk about excessive and wasteful spending.

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    Campaign Veteran Flipper's Avatar
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    Got Cash Gotta Spend It. 6 weeks training to see if a box is checked yes or no???
    When in danger you can dial 911 and hope for the police to arrive a few minutes later armed with guns.
    Why do police carry guns?

    The Joyce Foundation funded firearm control empire:
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    Regular Member BROKENSPROKET's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flipper View Post
    Got Cash Gotta Spend It. 6 weeks training to see if a box is checked yes or no???
    I am not picking on you specifically, but that attitude has been expressed by many here and I equate it to Richy Rich who blows a transmission and expects it to have it dropped and rebuilt and put back in before he gets back from having lunch across the street. These kind of expectations come from people that cannot or do not want to comprehend what a task really requires.
    Last edited by BROKENSPROKET; 11-23-2011 at 07:47 PM.

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    Regular Member msteinhilber's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BROKENSPROKET View Post
    I am not picking on you specifically, but that attitude has been expressed by many here and I equate it to Richy Rich who blows a transmission and expects it to have it dropped and rebuilt and put back in before he gets back from having lunch across the street. These kind of expectations come from people that cannot or do not want to comprehend what a task really requires.
    Six weeks of training to do the tasks these people are performing is an obscene amount of time to train and comparing paper pushers to removing, rebuilding and reinstalling a transmission is asinine. I've trained people with no prior knowledge to accomplish fairly advanced tasks in a week or two, if it's taking six weeks to train these workers - somebody is doing it wrong or the quality of the help is piss poor.

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    Regular Member HandyHamlet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outdoorsman1 View Post
    Here...
    I am still not here....

    Outdoorsman1
    Me neither.

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    Just some notes from the scanned documents.

    25,000 applications received in the first four days.
    30,000 applications received in the first eight days.
    44,000 applications received as of Nov. 21 (twenty days)

    125,000 applications estimated for this fiscal year, ending June 30, 2012.

    Former federal LEO CCW certificates will renew annually

    ANALYSIS section, page 2 of Nov. 22nd letter from Peter Kirby to Mike Huebsch, Secretary Department of Administration.

    "Presently, the department is only able to process about 400 applications a day or approximately 10 percent of total applications received."
    My math says more like 1 percent per day, based on their daily processing figures.
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    Regular Member markush's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by E6chevron View Post
    "Presently, the department is only able to process about 400 applications a day or approximately 10 percent of total applications received."
    Who's BSing who now? Lets see, there was a post in this forum of someone being issued permit #11,xxx on the 19th. By my math 11,000 permits issued in 19 days...11,000/19 = 578 permits per day average. And we all know that the first week was a train wreck and they are well over 600 permits a day now.

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    Regular Member oak1971's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by msteinhilber View Post
    Six weeks of training to do the tasks these people are performing is an obscene amount of time to train and comparing paper pushers to removing, rebuilding and reinstalling a transmission is asinine. I've trained people with no prior knowledge to accomplish fairly advanced tasks in a week or two, if it's taking six weeks to train these workers - somebody is doing it wrong or the quality of the help is piss poor.
    Ding! Only a moron would take 6 weeks to learn how to proofread the app, compare the submitted training docs to the current standard, and do a background check.

    Its not a complex technical task. I perform complex technical tasks daily and can tell the difference.
    In God I trust. Everyone else needs to keep your hands where I can see them.

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    Regular Member BROKENSPROKET's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by markush View Post
    Who's BSing who now? Lets see, there was a post in this forum of someone being issued permit #11,xxx on the 19th. By my math 11,000 permits issued in 19 days...11,000/19 = 578 permits per day average. And we all know that the first week was a train wreck and they are well over 600 permits a day now.
    I was scouting several forums W-F last week for #'s and issue dates and graphed them. I figured over 850 a day for those 3 days and knew they wouldl be well past the 10,000 mark by Sunday. They did that. Now this is a holiday week and imagine they only worked 3 days, M-W and maybe they will come back Friday, but I doubt it.

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    Regular Member bluehighways's Avatar
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    All of this crap could have been easily avoided had the DOJ been on the ball from the day our new law was passed. Instead they waited until the absolute last minute for EVERYTHING, and are now backed up worse than me after eating too much cheese.

    I am also mentally kicking myself for not taking the day off work Nov.1st and just driving the 4 hours down to the damn DOJ and dropping off my application in person. This waiting and waiting and waiting just sucks!
    Last edited by bluehighways; 11-24-2011 at 01:07 AM.
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    Regular Member oak1971's Avatar
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    Hmm... more staffing, "license" fees, funding empty suits, waiting for bureaucrats...or

    Constitutional Carry. No fees, no paper pushers, more freedom. Nah, that would never work.
    In God I trust. Everyone else needs to keep your hands where I can see them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BROKENSPROKET View Post
    I was scouting several forums W-F last week for #'s and issue dates and graphed them. I figured over 850 a day for those 3 days and knew they wouldl be well past the 10,000 mark by Sunday. They did that. Now this is a holiday week and imagine they only worked 3 days, M-W and maybe they will come back Friday, but I doubt it.
    Really doubt that, it's a 4 day gov holiday.

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    Regular Member paul@paul-fisher.com's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bluehighways View Post
    All of this crap could have been easily avoided had the DOJ been on the ball from the day our new law was passed. Instead they waited until the absolute last minute for EVERYTHING, and are now backed up worse than me after eating too much cheese.
    It would of been easier just passing Constitutional Carry.

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    Regular Member HandyHamlet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paul@paul-fisher.com View Post
    It would of been easier just passing Constitutional Carry.
    Just wondering who actually got the new jobs and how/if they are politically connected in any way...
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    Quote Originally Posted by bluehighways View Post
    All of this crap could have been easily avoided had the DOJ been on the ball from the day our new law was passed. Instead they waited until the absolute last minute for EVERYTHING, and are now backed up worse than me after eating too much cheese.

    I am also mentally kicking myself for not taking the day off work Nov.1st and just driving the 4 hours down to the damn DOJ and dropping off my application in person. This waiting and waiting and waiting just sucks!
    Me too. I'm self employed and don't get paid days off, and being a 500 mile round trip away, I figured it'd cost me $400-500 to do just that, with lost income, gas, parking, etc. So I trusted they'd do a good, FAIR, job of processing in order received. I was 1st in line at my post office on the 1st, and they got my app on the 2nd. They cashed my check two weeks ago... but I'm still waiting. People who mailed the day after DOJ had my app already have permits. They probably just kept dumping more on a pile that I was in, and I kept getting deeper & deeper.

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    Regular Member oak1971's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paul@paul-fisher.com View Post
    It would of been easier just passing Constitutional Carry.
    See post 16
    In God I trust. Everyone else needs to keep your hands where I can see them.

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    Regular Member davegran's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by safcrkr View Post
    Me too. I'm self employed and don't get paid days off, and being a 500 mile round trip away, I figured it'd cost me $400-500 to do just that, with lost income, gas, parking, etc. So I trusted they'd do a good, FAIR, job of processing in order received. I was 1st in line at my post office on the 1st, and they got my app on the 2nd. They cashed my check two weeks ago... but I'm still waiting. People who mailed the day after DOJ had my app already have permits. They probably just kept dumping more on a pile that I was in, and I kept getting deeper & deeper.
    I understand your consternation, but if being patient can save you $500, then it's not all bad. People who are self-employed sure have to make some tough decisions some times.... At least if your check is cashed it means you've been issued a license and you'll have it soon.
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    Safcrkr:

    I hand carried my applicaton to the post office. Was there when the doors opened on Nov. 1. I received my CCL on the 21st. I would expect yours will arrive shortly if the check has been cashed.

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    Regular Member xenophon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by E6chevron View Post
    Just some notes from the scanned documents.

    25,000 applications received in the first four days.
    30,000 applications received in the first eight days.
    44,000 applications received as of Nov. 21 (twenty days)

    *snip*
    Well, I know mine was received there on the 2nd. So that would have been in the first batch of like 10 to 12 thousand, they got. Those received on days 3 and 4 definitely shouldn't have gotten processed/mailed before all on days 2 and 3. But that's not happening.

    And it said it's a paper system, manual entry into the database. Cluster! They had many months to prepare the electronic system............
    Last edited by xenophon; 11-25-2011 at 12:19 AM.

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    People Should Refrain from Submitting Applications

    Until next month. Applications submitted after the first week and especially those recently submitted guarantee two things: (1) Everybody's license will take longer than it would have otherwise and (2) Late submitters won't be getting a a CWL until near mid-January. Staunching applications will free up DoJ personnel to clear the backlog. A application submitted today has an last issue date of January 10th. A submission on December 1st is due NLT December 22nd. You can bet that come December 1st any non-processed applications will go to the back of the line.

  24. #24
    Regular Member davegran's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by apjonas View Post
    .... Staunching applications will free up DoJ personnel to clear the backlog....
    I hate to be the one to bust your bubble; but according to the numbers, if no more applications were sent in from now on, it would take around 52 days to clear out what is already been submitted....


    Dave
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    Fight for "Stand Your Ground " legislation!

    WI DA Gerald R. Fox:
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    Remember: Don't make old People mad. We don't like being old in the first place, so it doesn't take much to piss us off.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Nemo View Post
    Safcrkr:

    I hand carried my applicaton to the post office. Was there when the doors opened on Nov. 1. I received my CCL on the 21st. I would expect yours will arrive shortly if the check has been cashed.
    Yup, if it hasn't been lost in the mail. In which case I cannot even make any kind of claim until Dec.16th. My biggest concern is mine (and many others in the same shoes, who SHOULD HAVE HAD THEM by now) got stolen from USPS and right now some scumbag is walking around with a CC license with my name on it. That doesn't sit well. Xenophon's check was cashed almost 3 WEEKS AGO on the 7th!!! I know another, Browning300 from WI Shooters Forum, who's check was cashed on the 9th, Trip 20's on the 10th... mine, AJ Dual's, and a few others from arfcom on the 14th. We ALL mailed on the 1st. I know a guy who MAILED on the 7th, and got his today!!! There's no plausible explanation for this delay other than mischief. If it's not mischief, then DOJ is totally inept. Sooner or later, you have to realize something is amiss and they're not coming. Patience only delays the inevitible.

    Page 1 of the application form explains the process. If app is complete and correct, check is deposited, app moves to background check sequencing. If check's cashed app's been "processed", is correct & complete. Page 1 also says apps will be processed in order received. If Xenophon's check was cashed on the 7th, his app was approved on the 7th, or sooner. The background check, printing, mailing has not been done in 18 days? Yet others have check cashed, license issued, received, in matter of days? And their process begins days later than those of us still waiting? C'mon man. Something wrong... open your eyes. We're your friends and fellow gun owners, and we're getting screwed over.... and all anybody with a permit can say is "patience... it's comin"??
    Last edited by safcrkr; 11-25-2011 at 11:02 PM.

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