• We are now running on a new, and hopefully much-improved, server. In addition we are also on new forum software. Any move entails a lot of technical details and I suspect we will encounter a few issues as the new server goes live. Please be patient with us. It will be worth it! :) Please help by posting all issues here.
  • The forum will be down for about an hour this weekend for maintenance. I apologize for the inconvenience.
  • If you are having trouble seeing the forum then you may need to clear your browser's DNS cache. Click here for instructions on how to do that
  • Please review the Forum Rules frequently as we are constantly trying to improve the forum for our members and visitors.

Gun Free Mall now interecepting customer cell signals.

t11spanner

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 25, 2008
Messages
226
Location
Falls Church, Virginia, USA
You have your frequencies, actually, sub frequencies, mixed up Carl.
This is just a dead carrier signal probably with the ESN encoded. You are allowed to listen to it although I can't think of anything more boring except maybe listening to water drip.

Lots of stuff being emitted by that phone other than audio.

Now the equipment itself does have to be licensed but that's just a matter of getting the permit from the FCC.

Most people don't understand the law pertaining to monitoring Cell phones. As long as the equipment is properly licensed you are allowed to monitor all aspects of the call, including the audio. The illegal part is repeating or recording any part of the call.

HAM's and especially scanner people aren't allowed access to everything from DC to daylight. There is a lot of restricted airspace. That's what makes it so much fun getting it.

If you want to have a lot of fun, get the daily encryption key from a tame police radio shop employee and monitor the text. Expensive and illegal equipment but loads of fun. Watch the surplus sales.

Yep! That is the fun of one of my many hobbies!

Thanks for keeping me straight, cause you can see, I have a little attitude about the "blocking" of frequencies.

Carl
 

MilProGuy

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 7, 2011
Messages
1,210
Location
Mississippi
You mean this one?..
icon14.png


It's right there below - just copy and paste it.

D'oh! :banghead:

Thank you, sir.
icon14.png
 

Skeptic

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Oct 2, 2007
Messages
585
Location
Goochland, Virginia, USA
You have absolutely zero understanding of what you're trying to talk about technically. Bluetooth has a range of about 30-32 feet or so and you can't connect to any other device via bluetooth unless you ACCEPT it or pair the devices. They don't just automatically connect to random things and then leave the door open to receive a virus (which by the way, is VERY rare on bluetooth).

Imagine your phone as a blinking infrared beacon on your head. No one walking around sees the light blinking unless you look at it with an infrared camera. That's all they're doing, LOOKING at what you already have. It's not an invasion of privacy, they are not screening phone calls, or activating camera phones, etc.

Do you also freak out when stores ask for your zipcode when you check out too??? LOL!

All you have to do is break the bluetooth connection between two trusted devices, for example a headset and a phone. Then you either then spoof one device and connect to the device you want, or you sniff the PIN that is sent during the reconnect between the devices and decode the PIN. Obviously requires different infrastructure than what they are doing now, but not that tough, really not that different than sniffing wi fi packets, just shorter range.

Of course many people with smart phones keep their wi-fi on all the time too, and connect to any public network; which would be even easier to access customer phones.

The point is not the particular method, just that it could be done, and should not be done. The phone is there for the customer, it is paid for by the customer, it is not meant for the use of the mall. I just don't think it is any of their business to look for my phone any more than it is their business to look for my gun using a metal detector or even x-ray scanning technology. Not that they are doing those things yet.

Heck, why not use RFID scanners to try and pick up what credit cards shoppers have , I mean knowing which credit cards people use versus what they leave in their wallets could be handy too. I mean those rfid chips are just there on people's credit cards, why not scan those too? I mean so long as they dont use the data to charge items what's the harm, right?

No I am sorry, we don't need another surveillance method whether in the name of marketing or government. You like it, fine, go to that mall. I just happen to think we dont need to be more like Europe.

As far as the zip code, I give them a fake one. None of their business.
 

Skeptic

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Oct 2, 2007
Messages
585
Location
Goochland, Virginia, USA
Most people don't understand the law pertaining to monitoring Cell phones. As long as the equipment is properly licensed you are allowed to monitor all aspects of the call, including the audio. The illegal part is repeating or recording any part of the call.

So speaking legally they could listen to customer phone conversations and then just categorizing the data into broad categories and keep information on length of call, etc and correlate that information on what the person goes before or after that call?

I mean technically, the categorization based on certain keywords would not be that difficult, speech recognition technology is getting better by leaps and bounds. Actually been working with a lot of different voice services lately...
 

peter nap

Accomplished Advocate
Joined
Oct 16, 2007
Messages
13,551
Location
Valhalla
So speaking legally they could listen to customer phone conversations and then just categorizing the data into broad categories and keep information on length of call, etc and correlate that information on what the person goes before or after that call?

I mean technically, the categorization based on certain keywords would not be that difficult, speech recognition technology is getting better by leaps and bounds. Actually been working with a lot of different voice services lately...
Yep...
And like I said earlier, it.will be abused sooner or later.
 

KBCraig

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 7, 2007
Messages
4,886
Location
Granite State of Mind
I didn't say they were currently intercepting the voice signal, but they are intercepting signals. They have no business intercepting those signals, IMO.
That's the same as demanding no one read the words you post on a publicly viewable web forum, except those you intend to see your writing.

Anything you broadcast in public is fair game, whether it's written words, the words out of your mouth, the words you transmit over a radio, or the ones and zeroes your phone transmits on your behalf every time you have it turned on.
 

nuc65

Activist Member
Joined
Nov 22, 2009
Messages
1,121
Location
Lynchburg, Virginia, USA
So speaking legally they could listen to customer phone conversations and then just categorizing the data into broad categories and keep information on length of call, etc and correlate that information on what the person goes before or after that call?

I mean technically, the categorization based on certain keywords would not be that difficult, speech recognition technology is getting better by leaps and bounds. Actually been working with a lot of different voice services lately...

Technically, about 5 years ago a WalMart employee was busted for reposting a text message sent by a customer to someone else that was lewd and suggestive.

What most people failed to note is that Wal Mart was not only intercepting and recording text and voice messages (they still do this) but they have this technology in place in all their stores (have had for some time).

Wal Mart is unable (so far as I know) to intercept Blackberry because of the encryption. Online Skype is the only encrypted voice signal system. All web traffic, email, im.s (even pm.s) are plain text intercept-able and recorded, scanned and saved by the NSA.
 

peter nap

Accomplished Advocate
Joined
Oct 16, 2007
Messages
13,551
Location
Valhalla
Wal Mart is unable (so far as I know) to intercept Blackberry because of the encryption. Online Skype is the only encrypted voice signal system. All web traffic, email, im.s (even pm.s) are plain text intercept-able and recorded, scanned and saved by the NSA.

It's a little scary how far technology has come Nuc.
I have a Drone I photograph with. It has two onboard cameras, one streams data to my Ipod so I can operate with actually seeing the drone. It generates it's own WiFi hotspot.

Last week my son who works for a defense contractor, took his tablet while I was flying the drone, and in about 30 seconds, found, downloaded and installed the software I was using, connected and took over the operation.
Can't even play with new toys safely anymore:mad:
 
Last edited:

MKEgal

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 8, 2010
Messages
4,383
Location
in front of my computer, WI
doug23838 said:
This is the same technology and approach that is used to observe traffic flow.
Around here, there are sensors in the roads. I think they're maybe 20 yards apart on the freeway, which should allow one car at a time to be monitored.

article 1 said:
...system has been implemented in Europe and Australia already without much of a public backlash...
They say this as though they think there's any comparison between those areas & the USA w/r/t personal rights, liberties, expectations of privacy, etc. :cuss:

article 1 said:
JC Penney and Home Depot are also reported to be involved in discussions for implementing Path Intelligence's system.
Nuh-uh. Needs to be stopped NOW.
JCP 1-800-322-1189 (or other contact methods here)
HD 1-800-466-3337 (or use webmail here)

article 2 said:
...[the mall] said it temporarily suspended use of the system so it can work with the developer of the technology to find a way for shoppers to opt out, aside from turning off their phones.
It's a step in the right direction.
 
Last edited:

Grapeshot

Legendary Warrior
Joined
May 21, 2006
Messages
35,317
Location
Valhalla
I'm not sure why there is even a debate on this.

Why are we even spending money at a place that is ANTI GUN?

I'm not spending any money there and won't be, but expanding their anti freedom status cannot be tolerated either.

Defending OC and the 2A is not a stand alone project, even though it is our main focus here..
 

KBCraig

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 7, 2007
Messages
4,886
Location
Granite State of Mind
Technically, about 5 years ago a WalMart employee was busted for reposting a text message sent by a customer to someone else that was lewd and suggestive.
Are you referring to the 2007 case, where someone in Wal-Mart security was capturing conversations between a reporter and certain staff?

That involved the reporter's cell phone, but the messages were captured from Wal-Mart's network, not the cellular network. Perfectly legal.
 
H

Herr Heckler Koch

Guest

jmelvin

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Jun 12, 2008
Messages
2,195
Location
Lynchburg, Virginia, USA
It would be nice if we understood that the Bill of Rights was written as a whole set and not as a bunch of disparate stand alone articles.

I have suggested to VCDL President that something like this may be a worthwhile venture for VCDL. Other freedom friendly groups could be involved as well. I know this Bill of Rights Day gathering has occurred in Phoenix, AZ for several years now.

http://www.gunlaws.com/BOR-CommitteeReport1.htm
 
Top