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Thread: Kahr CW9 or Taurus PT111? (Kel-Tec pf9 guys are welcome too)

  1. #1
    Regular Member Malcolm's Avatar
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    Kahr CW9 or Taurus PT111? (Kel-Tec pf9 guys are welcome too)

    I've been looking for a good CC pistol for a few months and plan on making my purchase in a couple of weeks. everything from the walther ppk to the kel-tec pf9. I had some interest in the taurus pt111 for some time. Stumbling onto the kahr CW9 I'm pretty much sold. I'd like to hear some opinions from the taurus guys and some opinions about the Kahr (Are there Kahr guys out there?) CW9. (Taurus PT11 single stack only)
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    Regular Member oak1971's Avatar
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    I had a PT145 and it was fine, but thick for carry. I have a Kahr MK9 Elite now, and being single stack, is very nice concealment piece. A compact single stack 45 acp is on my list.
    In God I trust. Everyone else needs to keep your hands where I can see them.

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    Activist Member carsontech's Avatar
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    I had a PF-9 a few months ago. It never gave me a problem. It's the lightest and smallest 9mm you can get, as well as the cheapest. The ergonomics arn't as great as the other guns you listed, but it wasn't bad. I want to get another one very soon. The only reason I got rid of it was to trade for another 1911, as I HATE carrying small guns, even when carrying concealed. I don't buy guns I don't carry, because I try to carry every gun I own. I have no safe queens or range only guns, I carry them all, or hunt with them all. Conceal carrying big guns is the open carrier in my trying to say "I'm not going to let this CC only state beat me in depicting what guns I can buy and use".

    Now, I've found out I'm going to be stuck here in SC (CC only state) for longer than I thought. I'm starting to appreciate smaller, yet still adequate firepower, guns, like the PF-9. I have had a pocket .380, Keltec P3AT, for a while now and wear it as a BUG everywhere I go. I actual concealed my 1911, my PF-9, and my P3AT all at once for a while, just because I don't like letting my guns sit. Because of how lightweight the Keltecs were, I didn't even notice them. Chicago reload

    The PF-9 is the ultimate concealability to me. My next choice would be a CM-9. If I wanted to go bigger for better grip and so on, I would choose the Taurus Slim PT109 and then a Karh CW9.

  4. #4
    Campaign Veteran Schlitz's Avatar
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    I've owned a few NIB Taurus handguns in the past year. ( 4) As of now I have only one. Stay clear of Taurus. It's not like once in a while you get a bad apple, its more like once in a while you get a decent one.

    (i reserve the right to talk crap about Taurus because I've given them several chances (and about $1.5k later) to redeem themselves. I'm not repeating garbage you hear from the people who bash Taurus and HiPoint yet never owned one)

    sent from my phone, excuse my grammar/spelling errors
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    Regular Member oak1971's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schlitz View Post
    I've owned a few NIB Taurus handguns in the past year. ( 4) As of now I have only one. Stay clear of Taurus. It's not like once in a while you get a bad apple, its more like once in a while you get a decent one.

    (i reserve the right to talk crap about Taurus because I've given them several chances (and about $1.5k later) to redeem themselves. I'm not repeating garbage you hear from the people who bash Taurus and HiPoint yet never owned one)

    sent from my phone, excuse my grammar/spelling errors
    My PT145 was a good one. My PT92 was very good for a very long time, still is, though owned by a friend now. PT1911 fell apart, as well as my M44 Revolver. I won't buy any more Tauri, just too many other quality guns to choose from.
    In God I trust. Everyone else needs to keep your hands where I can see them.

  6. #6
    Campaign Veteran Schlitz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oak1971 View Post
    My PT145 was a good one. My PT92 was very good for a very long time, still is, though owned by a friend now. PT1911 fell apart, as well as my M44 Revolver. I won't buy any more Tauri, just too many other quality guns to choose from.
    It sucks because NIB all they're guns look good and feel great, but when springs start shooting out of the side of the revolver as you dry fire it AFTER it gets back from warranty repairs from being broken NIB, you just can't trust it with your life.

    sent from my phone, excuse my grammar/spelling errors
    “The claim and exercise of a constitutional right cannot be converted into a crime.”
    [Miller vs. U.S., 230 F. Supp. 486, 489 (1956)]
    “There can be no sanction or penalty imposed upon one because of his exercise of constitutional rights.”
    [Sherar vs. Cullen, 481 F2d. 946 (1973)]

  7. #7
    Regular Member oak1971's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schlitz View Post
    It sucks because NIB all they're guns look good and feel great, but when springs start shooting out of the side of the revolver as you dry fire it AFTER it gets back from warranty repairs from being broken NIB, you just can't trust it with your life.

    sent from my phone, excuse my grammar/spelling errors
    The cylinder literally fell out of mine while cleaning it. I sent back and they fixed it, but now it sits on the rack. I have plenty of Smith, Ruger and Colt revolvers to shoot, not even going to give the Taurus the time of day. Don't get me started on the box of pieces that used to be a Kel Tec.
    In God I trust. Everyone else needs to keep your hands where I can see them.

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    I must be the lucky one because I have had a PT111 (latest gen.) for several years now that has never given me one bit of problem. It has never had a FTE or FTF and I have run all kinds of ammo through it from WWB to +P+. I also have a P3AT that has never had a failure. I will say that with the P3AT's the chrome slide models seem to be better and give less trouble than the blued ones.

    Taurus did have a very bad reputation when the PT111 was first introduced but the Gen. 3 model has been much more reliable One thing that I have discovered about guns is that if you have a problem with a $300 gun it means it is a piece of junk but the same problem with a $1,100 gun means you just need to break it in.

  9. #9
    Regular Member MilProGuy's Avatar
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    I have owned 11 Taurus handguns since 1991, and have never had a reason to send any of them back to Taurus warranty service, with the exception of my TCP .380, which Taurus replaced with a new pistol.

    Regarding the MilPro PT111, I own one in the Duo Tone finish and it has performed flawlessly since I took it out of the box and gave it an initial deep cleaning to remove the cosmoline packing grease that Taurus gobs their guns with to protect them from rust, corrosion, etc.

    The MilPro PT111 is relatively lightweight, compact enough to carry concealed should the need arise, 110% reliable, and remarkably accurate at self-defense distances.

    The big plus is that these pistols are very affordable and they carry a lifetime warranty on the handgun, itself, rather than on the initial purchaser.
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    Regular Member SovereignAxe's Avatar
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    Sounds like your choices are all over the place. Are you leaning towards any particular caliber? The PPK is .380 or .32 while the CW9 and PT111 is 9mm.

    Most of your selections are 9mm, so I'm going to assume that's what you prefer. If that's the case, your options are huge. Have you checked out the Ruger SR9c or LC9? What about the Walther PPS? The SR9c and PPS can use short/flush or extended magazines.

    BTW, unless you can be assured of its reliability, or know a good gunsmith that can work on it, I would stay away from the PPK. Just about any of the ones you'll find are made under license by Smith & Wesson (despite "Ulm, Germany" being emblazoned on the slide), and they either make them poorly, or make them with tolerances too tight because they're pretty notorious for having FTE and feed issues. I've seen someone on here post that he had his polished and grinded in all of the right spots and that greatly increased reliability, but do you really want to buy a gun that needs work on it as soon as you buy it? If you can find one with the Eagle over N mark on it, buy it, but don't expect it to come cheap. "Smith & Wesson Springfield, MA" will still be stamped on the slide if it's made in Germany, but that's only because S&W imported it.
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  11. #11
    Campaign Veteran Schlitz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MilProGuy View Post
    I have owned 11 Taurus handguns since 1991, and have never had a reason to send any of them back to Taurus warranty service, with the exception of my TCP .380, which Taurus replaced with a new pistol.

    Regarding the MilPro PT111, I own one in the Duo Tone finish and it has performed flawlessly since I took it out of the box and gave it an initial deep cleaning to remove the cosmoline packing grease that Taurus gobs their guns with to protect them from rust, corrosion, etc.

    The MilPro PT111 is relatively lightweight, compact enough to carry concealed should the need arise, 110% reliable, and remarkably accurate at self-defense distances.

    The big plus is that these pistols are very affordable and they carry a lifetime warranty on the handgun, itself, rather than on the initial purchaser.
    I've heard of people worshiping the Taurus for being a good gun manufacturer and that all the crap talk is just talk, so I give them 4 tries to show me they don't suck. They failed to show me they know what they're doing.

    I'm sure all of your guns have been perfectly fine, but for everyone you find who is just happy with Taurus it appears there are 2 people who are not. So yes, you can buy an awesome excellent reliable taurus handgun, and you also have a chance of buying a complete piece of crap. It is like rolling a dice when buying a taurus (and you appear to be good at it I guess!)

    Keep this in mind when looking to buy a taurus, you will find a few people that love them and you will find a ton of horror stories. You don't get this when you hear about people buying Glocks, Sigs, XDs. Sure, after making and selling thousands and thousands of Glocks,Sigs, and XDs you will find an unhappy customer, but the complaints about these manufacturers are a lot more rare than Taurus - and there is a reason for it.

    This is coming from someone who bought from taurus with an open mind, I really wanted it to be a good gun, i really did, i spent almost 2k on taurus guns. All I did was waste time and money.
    “The claim and exercise of a constitutional right cannot be converted into a crime.”
    [Miller vs. U.S., 230 F. Supp. 486, 489 (1956)]
    “There can be no sanction or penalty imposed upon one because of his exercise of constitutional rights.”
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    Regular Member oak1971's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PT111 View Post
    I must be the lucky one because I have had a PT111 (latest gen.) for several years now that has never given me one bit of problem. It has never had a FTE or FTF and I have run all kinds of ammo through it from WWB to +P+. I also have a P3AT that has never had a failure. I will say that with the P3AT's the chrome slide models seem to be better and give less trouble than the blued ones.

    Taurus did have a very bad reputation when the PT111 was first introduced but the Gen. 3 model has been much more reliable One thing that I have discovered about guns is that if you have a problem with a $300 gun it means it is a piece of junk but the same problem with a $1,100 gun means you just need to break it in.
    Only Kimbers.

    Seriously, Glocks are not that much more expensive than a Taurus and the reliability has been proven for 20 years or more.
    In God I trust. Everyone else needs to keep your hands where I can see them.

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    Activist Member golddigger14s's Avatar
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    My EDC is a Taurus 24/7 PRO DS, yes I've sent it in twice (out and back in a week). It now rocks like a champ. I think even though unwanted, customer service speaks volumes to me, I also have a PF9, which I like for its size and price. Just make sure you have a steady grip, because if you "limp wrist it" it will FTE. OT, I also have a HP carbine which I love.
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    Regular Member MilProGuy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by golddigger14s View Post
    My EDC is a Taurus 24/7 PRO DS, yes I've sent it in twice (out and back in a week). It now rocks like a champ. I think even though unwanted, customer service speaks volumes to me...
    Right on!

    Even the BMW owners need to have warranty work on their high-dollar automobiles. Nobody expects to buy / drive an automobile and never have to have repair work done on the vehicle.

    But their warranty on their cars is not a lifetime repair / replacement warranty. Taurus offers it on a $300 gun...go figure.
    Last edited by MilProGuy; 11-26-2011 at 08:44 AM. Reason: expanded for clarity
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  15. #15
    Regular Member carry for myself's Avatar
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    Taurus any day!

    CW line of kahrs are junk. the other ones are great but......CW is crap lol

    Taurus is accurate, reliable and has literally the best warrantee known to man.
    i would rather run out of blood, breath and life. and die fighting. than run out of ammo , and die with my pants down -Tom Scantas

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    Regular Member oak1971's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MilProGuy View Post
    Right on!

    Even the BMW owners have to have warranty work on their high-dollar automobiles.

    But their warranty on their cars is not a lifetime repair / replacement warranty. Taurus offers it on a $300 gun...go figure.
    If it works for you, cool. I've moved on. No more shipping guns back to the factory and wondering when they will fail again. No worries.
    In God I trust. Everyone else needs to keep your hands where I can see them.

  17. #17
    Campaign Veteran Schlitz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by carry for myself View Post
    Taurus is accurate, reliable: and has literally the best warrantee known to man.
    I lol'd

    They better have the best warranty! For as much as their guns fall apart they need that warranty!


    sent from my phone, excuse my grammar/spelling errors
    “The claim and exercise of a constitutional right cannot be converted into a crime.”
    [Miller vs. U.S., 230 F. Supp. 486, 489 (1956)]
    “There can be no sanction or penalty imposed upon one because of his exercise of constitutional rights.”
    [Sherar vs. Cullen, 481 F2d. 946 (1973)]

  18. #18
    Regular Member 1245A Defender's Avatar
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    well,,,,

    Quote Originally Posted by MilProGuy View Post
    Right on!

    Even the BMW owners have to have warranty work on their high-dollar automobiles.

    But their warranty on their cars is not a lifetime repair / replacement warranty. Taurus offers it on a $300 gun...go figure.
    guess what??

    Hi Point also, is accurate, is reliable, and has literally the best warranty of any manufacturer.
    Life time, of the gun, no matter who owns it!
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    Regular Member oak1971's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1245A Defender View Post
    guess what??

    Hi Point also, is accurate, is reliable, and has literally the best warranty of any manufacturer.
    Life time, of the gun, no matter who owns it!
    Oh God. He went there.
    In God I trust. Everyone else needs to keep your hands where I can see them.

  20. #20
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    I have a PF-9 and have had no trouble from it. I also have a Kimber tactical ultra and a Taurus model 85 snub nose .38 .

    WOW! Everyone of them junk according to what I read. I think I will keep them though. LOL

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schlitz View Post
    I've heard of people worshiping the Taurus for being a good gun manufacturer and that all the crap talk is just talk, so I give them 4 tries to show me they don't suck. They failed to show me they know what they're doing.

    I'm sure all of your guns have been perfectly fine, but for everyone you find who is just happy with Taurus it appears there are 2 people who are not. So yes, you can buy an awesome excellent reliable taurus handgun, and you also have a chance of buying a complete piece of crap. It is like rolling a dice when buying a taurus (and you appear to be good at it I guess!)

    Keep this in mind when looking to buy a taurus, you will find a few people that love them and you will find a ton of horror stories. You don't get this when you hear about people buying Glocks, Sigs, XDs. Sure, after making and selling thousands and thousands of Glocks,Sigs, and XDs you will find an unhappy customer, but the complaints about these manufacturers are a lot more rare than Taurus - and there is a reason for it.

    This is coming from someone who bought from taurus with an open mind, I really wanted it to be a good gun, i really did, i spent almost 2k on taurus guns. All I did was waste time and money.
    So not going to get into a brand-whoring/bashing debate, but from what I've seen/heard with the handful of folks I've known to have any Taurus issues, it's almost always ended up being Operator Headspace/failure to follow simple instructions.
    I've got my 845. Thing has fed,fired, extracted,ejected everything I've put into it -from generic FMJ to Gold Dots, without a hitch. No jams/misfeeds/fte/ftfs -notta. Parts havent mysteriously flown off of it just from handling, etc. ...
    I've seen folks have issues of one sort or another with Sig, Glock, S&W, just about anything. One isnt more prone to it than another.
    Heck, I've got an old Raven .25 that I've had for over 25 yrs,which by most folk's reckoning is supposed to be a peice o junk. That thing has got to have well north of 12k rounds through it by now-the ONLY malfunction or Issue Ive ever had with it is the 1st time I tried firing Gold Dots through it- guess what?
    Ended up being Operator Headspace- I'd not seated the last round in the mag fully to the rear of the mag.
    Fixed that- chambered it again- BANG. Prob solved, and never a prob since.
    Last edited by j4l; 11-26-2011 at 07:38 AM.

  22. #22
    Regular Member MilProGuy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1245A Defender View Post
    guess what??

    Hi Point also, is accurate, is reliable, and has literally the best warranty of any manufacturer.
    Life time, of the gun, no matter who owns it!
    Yes, they do...and gun snobs everywhere will "diss" them too.
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  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1245A Defender View Post
    guess what??

    Hi Point also, is accurate, is reliable, and has literally the best warranty of any manufacturer.
    Life time, of the gun, no matter who owns it!
    I had a Hi-Point and the only problem with it is was looks. Otherwise no problems with accuracy or operation. I traded it on a rifle but you will not find me downing the Hi-Point. I find that at least 95% of those running Hi-Points down have never fired one and 95% of those that have owned one love them. However they do not make a good CCW gun because of their size and shape.

  24. #24
    Regular Member Malcolm's Avatar
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    Well....

    That was a little more than I bargained for. I see the Taurus funny bone was hit. I've been eyeing the pt111 for some time. I shot a Kel-Tec P12? at the range a couple weeks ago (double stack 9mm)-That thing was painful. I laughed, it kind of reminded me of my SW 460 but not as smooth. We'll see, price is on my mind, but quality and comfort is top priority. That Kahr is probably the most comfortable I've held. The PF-9's price and track record is really good as well. wasn't as comfortable to grip though.

    As for some of the other posts. .380, .32, .45, .40- not interested for this gun. want a 9mm. I think its coming down to a 3way fight, Kel-Tec, Taurus and Kahr. They are going to have to duke it out.

    Farther than that, I think its all luck and personal preference. just curious to see what other people thought.
    T.V. brings on a whole new meaning to thinking inside the box.

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  25. #25
    Campaign Veteran Schlitz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by j4l View Post
    So not going to get into a brand-whoring/bashing debate, but from what I've seen/heard with the handful of folks I've known to have any Taurus issues, it's almost always ended up being Operator Headspace/failure to follow simple instructions.
    I can assure you that none of my problems were operator error. The only error I made was not following the instructions of friends and internet trolls saying NOT TO BUY Taurus.

    Broken parts in a gun that is new in box is NOT operator error. Parts inside a NIB gun that look like they were thrown through a jet engine are NOT operator error.

    I have heard of glocks, sigs, and other reputable guns having problems... they're almost 1 in a million. There is a reason glock, xd, and sig have fanboys- they're really good products. The people who hate on them just simply, 'don't like them.' The people who hate on Taurus hate them because they've bought multiple guns coming NIB broken O_O aka me
    “The claim and exercise of a constitutional right cannot be converted into a crime.”
    [Miller vs. U.S., 230 F. Supp. 486, 489 (1956)]
    “There can be no sanction or penalty imposed upon one because of his exercise of constitutional rights.”
    [Sherar vs. Cullen, 481 F2d. 946 (1973)]

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