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Thread: Question about constitutional carry

  1. #1
    Regular Member xmanhockey7's Avatar
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    Question about constitutional carry

    I am being told that if a state were to pass constitutional carry (cc) then that state will see a boat load of pistol free zones (pfz) added to the listed of places where people can't carry. So I figured I'd go right to the sources. Is this true for your state? And not only the PFZ but did you see stricter carry laws come along with the adoption of cc?
    "No state shall convert a liberty to a privilege, license it, and charge a fee therefor.- Murdock vs Pennsylvania 319 US 105

    ...If the state converts a right into a privelege, the citizen can ignore the license and fee and engage in the right... with impunity.
    - Shuttleworth vs City of Birmingham, Alabama 317 US 262

    Where rights secured by the Constitution are involved, there can be no legislation which would abrogate them.
    - Miranda vs Arizona 384 US 436

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    Regular Member acmariner99's Avatar
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    Stricter laws with the passage of constitutional carry? No - the only thing that changed was the permit requirement for CC. Arizona still issues permits for the purposes of carrying in other states but a permit is no longer required for carrying a concealed weapon in Arizona's borders EXCEPT for places that serve alcohol for on premises consumption. A few places did put up signs saying no weapons allowed, but once there was no blood running in the streets most of those signs (the one's I've seen anyway) came down. There are relatively few GFZ's in Arizona. Though as I understand federal law, if one chooses to carry without a CC permit, there is no exception from carry near a school, though Arizona doesn't enforce that law.

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    Regular Member xmanhockey7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by acmariner99 View Post
    Stricter laws with the passage of constitutional carry? No - the only thing that changed was the permit requirement for CC. Arizona still issues permits for the purposes of carrying in other states but a permit is no longer required for carrying a concealed weapon in Arizona's borders EXCEPT for places that serve alcohol for on premises consumption. A few places did put up signs saying no weapons allowed, but once there was no blood running in the streets most of those signs (the one's I've seen anyway) came down. There are relatively few GFZ's in Arizona. Though as I understand federal law, if one chooses to carry without a CC permit, there is no exception from carry near a school, though Arizona doesn't enforce that law.
    Yeah seemed silly to me too. Told me to look it up since he refused to provide a cite. So I figured I'd ask on here.
    "No state shall convert a liberty to a privilege, license it, and charge a fee therefor.- Murdock vs Pennsylvania 319 US 105

    ...If the state converts a right into a privelege, the citizen can ignore the license and fee and engage in the right... with impunity.
    - Shuttleworth vs City of Birmingham, Alabama 317 US 262

    Where rights secured by the Constitution are involved, there can be no legislation which would abrogate them.
    - Miranda vs Arizona 384 US 436

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    Regular Member azcdlfred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xmanhockey7 View Post
    did you see stricter carry laws come along with the adoption of cc?
    I can't wrap my head around that question. Maybe your friend can elaborate?

    If the legislature passes Constitutional Carry laws restoring much of the right to bear arms in Arizona, why would that same legislature push for laws that restrict the right to bear arms?

    Reading between the lines - is your friend against Constitutional Carry?

    Fred

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    Regular Member acmariner99's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by azcdlfred View Post
    I can't wrap my head around that question. Maybe your friend can elaborate?

    If the legislature passes Constitutional Carry laws restoring much of the right to bear arms in Arizona, why would that same legislature push for laws that restrict the right to bear arms?

    Reading between the lines - is your friend against Constitutional Carry?

    Fred
    I think what he meant is when cc passed, did we see more restrictions as to where we can carry and/or did more business put up those infernal "no weapons" signs.

  6. #6
    Regular Member xmanhockey7's Avatar
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    Yeah I don't think he has an support for his argument. He is fully against CC, says it will ruin our current permit system even though I told him all states that have switches kept their current system in place. "They have constitutional carry and guess what, they had a boat load of PFZ's added to the list to be able to have CC." He said that and when I asked if he could please provide a cite (yes I used the word please) I got this reply: "I am on the road so I don't have the time to look it up. You can look it up fairly easily. I don't feel it is even close to being acceptable that I have paid thousands of dollars in dues to multiple orgs and spent hundreds of hours working on our rights for you too come along and start demanding stuff."
    "No state shall convert a liberty to a privilege, license it, and charge a fee therefor.- Murdock vs Pennsylvania 319 US 105

    ...If the state converts a right into a privelege, the citizen can ignore the license and fee and engage in the right... with impunity.
    - Shuttleworth vs City of Birmingham, Alabama 317 US 262

    Where rights secured by the Constitution are involved, there can be no legislation which would abrogate them.
    - Miranda vs Arizona 384 US 436

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    Quote Originally Posted by xmanhockey7 View Post
    Yeah I don't think he has an support for his argument. He is fully against CC, says it will ruin our current permit system even though I told him all states that have switches kept their current system in place. "They have constitutional carry and guess what, they had a boat load of PFZ's added to the list to be able to have CC." He said that and when I asked if he could please provide a cite (yes I used the word please) I got this reply: "I am on the road so I don't have the time to look it up. You can look it up fairly easily. I don't feel it is even close to being acceptable that I have paid thousands of dollars in dues to multiple orgs and spent hundreds of hours working on our rights for you too come along and start demanding stuff."
    Yep, he couldn't be more wrong.

    It sounds bit like he's suffering from that psychological phenomenon where when someone has been working at something long enough, they get to where the idea of succeeding is a bit frightening.

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    Regular Member Phoenix David's Avatar
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    Ditto what acmariner99 said. I have noticed a few more places posted right after the new law became effective, some have come down, some haven't.

    I don't spend money on place that restrict my right to protect myself.
    Freedom is a bit like sex, when your getting it you take it for granted, when you're not you want it bad, other people get mad at you for having it and others want to take it away from you so only they have it.

  9. #9
    Regular Member xmanhockey7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenix David View Post
    Ditto what acmariner99 said. I have noticed a few more places posted right after the new law became effective, some have come down, some haven't.

    I don't spend money on place that restrict my right to protect myself.
    Yeah but PFZs were not legislated in. And like you said if the place really is antigun I just assume not frequent their business.
    "No state shall convert a liberty to a privilege, license it, and charge a fee therefor.- Murdock vs Pennsylvania 319 US 105

    ...If the state converts a right into a privelege, the citizen can ignore the license and fee and engage in the right... with impunity.
    - Shuttleworth vs City of Birmingham, Alabama 317 US 262

    Where rights secured by the Constitution are involved, there can be no legislation which would abrogate them.
    - Miranda vs Arizona 384 US 436

  10. #10
    Regular Member azcdlfred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xmanhockey7 View Post
    He is fully against CC
    Ahhhh! The old "I believe in the right to bear arms, except....." mentality.


    Fred

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