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Thread: Activism Wanes

  1. #1
    Regular Member Save Our State's Avatar
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    Activism Wanes

    I don't know what else to call this thread, but wanted to voice an opinion on this. In years past, activists were coming from everywhere, and in many fields. People inspired by the wave of social media access sprang from cities, counties, towns and the countryside to become involved in patriot related causes. For some, the only involvement was spreading the word. Others staged protests, scheduled and held events, or attended the events of others. The internet was abuzz with ideas and actions. But then resistance arose, and setbacks arrived in the way of new restrictions and stronger enforcement of older ones. In addition, some seemingly unjust arrests and convictions occurred, futher inhibiting the previous fervor for activism. Soon, a turnaround took hold, and the will and desire began to droop. At present, the will has fallen to a new low. Well, maybe it's not a new one, and I have just forgotten what it was like to be one of the sheep. It's hard to tell, because when you're a sheep, you don't really know you can be something else.

    So now the question is, just how did we lose the enthusiasm for our causes? Was it the wolves reassurtion of their dominance? How about us just fulfilling a natural cycle of growth and dormancy, or growth and retardation? Maybe it's just as simple as our attention span. People have always been slave to their whims, and maybe this whim has followed the path of a new restaurant in town. We tend to get caught up in crazes it seems. Still yet, is it possible we all think we have fulfilled our mission of bringing our causes to the forefront, and have moved on to greater ones?

    I don't know why people have dropped from sight on this particular issue, but my observances have pointed to the same attitudes in other patriot related causes. I find it interesting that the involvement has dropped nearly across the board at nearly the same time periods. I'd swear someone is putting something in our air, water, or food, because I have to strain through a zillion more people to find someone still willing to put up a fight.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Save Our State View Post
    I don't know what else to call this thread, but wanted to voice an opinion on this. In years past, activists were coming from everywhere, and in many fields. People inspired by the wave of social media access sprang from cities, counties, towns and the countryside to become involved in patriot related causes. For some, the only involvement was spreading the word. Others staged protests, scheduled and held events, or attended the events of others. The internet was abuzz with ideas and actions. But then resistance arose, and setbacks arrived in the way of new restrictions and stronger enforcement of older ones. In addition, some seemingly unjust arrests and convictions occurred, futher inhibiting the previous fervor for activism. Soon, a turnaround took hold, and the will and desire began to droop. At present, the will has fallen to a new low. Well, maybe it's not a new one, and I have just forgotten what it was like to be one of the sheep. It's hard to tell, because when you're a sheep, you don't really know you can be something else.

    So now the question is, just how did we lose the enthusiasm for our causes? Was it the wolves reassurtion of their dominance? How about us just fulfilling a natural cycle of growth and dormancy, or growth and retardation? Maybe it's just as simple as our attention span. People have always been slave to their whims, and maybe this whim has followed the path of a new restaurant in town. We tend to get caught up in crazes it seems. Still yet, is it possible we all think we have fulfilled our mission of bringing our causes to the forefront, and have moved on to greater ones?

    I don't know why people have dropped from sight on this particular issue, but my observances have pointed to the same attitudes in other patriot related causes. I find it interesting that the involvement has dropped nearly across the board at nearly the same time periods. I'd swear someone is putting something in our air, water, or food, because I have to strain through a zillion more people to find someone still willing to put up a fight.
    Spot on ! SOS,
    I got curious as to meaning of words yesterday and looked them up.
    "Betrayer" means:
    1. To seduce.
    2.To deliver to an enemy by treachery.
    "Traitor" means:
    1. One who betrays another's trust or is false to an obligation or duty.

    I find this Interesting in light of the "Oath" leaders take upon serving We The People.
    I think back to Americas beginning and wonder what would they have done back then. ?

    We are at the crossroads of losing our rights to bear arms in this State, and I to don't see
    much happening in the way of our Congressmen objecting to the wrongful and deliberate
    cause to take our rights away.
    That's upsetting !
    As the 2A says " Being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people
    to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed".
    The real Interesting word here is "Shall" as that's a no compromised word. Its a Demand !
    Yet there is an "Agenda" to keep us from bearing arms, which is a police state of control !
    I refer back to the words I looked up in the Dictionary.

    There are only 2 choices 1. Elect Congressmen who will put legislation in to protect our rights.
    OR 2. Leave this State , and move to a free State.
    This is the Crossroads we are at now.
    Good Luck !
    Robin47

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    Regular Member SovereignAxe's Avatar
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    My suggestion to Californians that want their constitutional rights back would be to do what many Marylanders do on here: open carry empty holster (OCEH) protest. Sure, you still have long gun carry, but I don't think carrying a long gun is going to win over anyone to your side. Yeah, you'll prove a point that any 2A supporter will appreciate, but a long gun is seen as less of a defense weapon than a pistol is.

    Open carry your handgun holster and you may just get into some good conversations with moderates, and wont come off as offensive to the antis. You also are actively showing that you've been disarmed, instead of just BEING disarmed.

    I don't have to tell you what the gun culture is like in your state, I'm sure you know. So what you're complaining about shouldn't come as a surprise. There is hope, though. CA has shot themselves in the foot with the carry ban because it nullifies case law that states that having unloaded OC being legal meant they weren't violating the 2nd amendment with their restrictive CC permits. I think that'll eventually cause you guys to get shall issue permits, but not after a long and arduous battle from the antis-as you do have so many of them in CA.

    Good luck with your fight.
    "Anyone worth shooting once is worth shooting twice." -Zeus

    "Someone ever tries to kill you, you try to kill 'em right back!" - Malcolm Reynolds

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    Quote Originally Posted by SovereignAxe View Post
    My suggestion to Californians that want their constitutional rights back would be to do what many Marylanders do on here: open carry empty holster (OCEH) protest. Sure, you still have long gun carry, but I don't think carrying a long gun is going to win over anyone to your side. Yeah, you'll prove a point that any 2A supporter will appreciate, but a long gun is seen as less of a defense weapon than a pistol is.

    Open carry your handgun holster and you may just get into some good conversations with moderates, and wont come off as offensive to the antis. You also are actively showing that you've been disarmed, instead of just BEING disarmed.Good luck with your fight.
    That protest seems a bit like protesting infringements of the first amendment by holding a wordless sign

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    Regular Member SovereignAxe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Save Our State View Post
    That protest seems a bit like protesting infringements of the first amendment by holding a wordless sign
    That's the funny thing about the first amendment. If you've lost it, it's incredibly difficult to protest it.

    But if you still have 1A, but have lost the 2A, you can still use 1A to protest. Sure, you can go stand in front of a government building and march with signs, but what good is that going to do you if you don't have anyone to march with? Getting something done in a democracy requires numbers, and if you know a better and easier way to protest and win supporters than an EHOC protest, not only would I like to hear it, but I encourage you to do it.
    "Anyone worth shooting once is worth shooting twice." -Zeus

    "Someone ever tries to kill you, you try to kill 'em right back!" - Malcolm Reynolds

    EDC = Walther PPQ 9mm

  6. #6
    Regular Member acmariner99's Avatar
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    I have begun to think of Open Carry as more than just a 2A issue. It is also a 1A issue. Carrying a firearm openly is an expression -- a display of one's willingness to protect oneself and those around them, it is an expression of our willingness to engage the general public when we are approached with questions or curious glances. We are willing to be subject to ridicule by our opponents and possibly harassed by those "offended" by what we do or by an overbearing LEO. Open Carry wasn't banned because of "public safety." It was banned because what we were saying was a nuisance to those "holier than thou." Despite no OCer in CA breaking the law, being otherwise disorderly, and no crimes of violence occurring, come Jan 1, OC will be no more in the State of California. So now the question is: how do you continue to speak up and engage the general public to protect your rights? Unless there is a serious change of who makes the rules in Sacramento, I don't see the 2A being respected in CA anytime soon. I am not sure the courts will be much help either. Especially if a decision gets to the 9th Circuit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SovereignAxe View Post
    That's the funny thing about the first amendment. If you've lost it, it's incredibly difficult to protest it.

    But if you still have 1A, but have lost the 2A, you can still use 1A to protest. Sure, you can go stand in front of a government building and march with signs, but what good is that going to do you if you don't have anyone to march with? Getting something done in a democracy requires numbers, and if you know a better and easier way to protest and win supporters than an EHOC protest, not only would I like to hear it, but I encourage you to do it.
    Mobs could then be considered democracy in action? It's not always about numbers. A minute number of players often hold an at large population at bay using cunning, accumulated power or wealth, and other means. I'll tell you this; I'm not going to crawl before the crown with an empty sheath as proof that I disagree with their rule. It's seems more proof of capitulation to them than symbolism for your followers to rally behind.

    and if you know a better and easier way to protest and win supporters than an EHOC protest, not only would I like to hear it, but I encourage you to do it
    ahhh, .....yes, I am making plans for one, but I don't think many will understand it, and expect some to belittle or even ridicule it. The point of my thread was more to encourage those who have fallen back to tell us why, or those who haven't, to speculate as to why they think they did.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SovereignAxe View Post
    My suggestion to Californians that want their constitutional rights back would be to do what many Marylanders do on here: open carry empty holster (OCEH) protest. Sure, you still have long gun carry, but I don't think carrying a long gun is going to win over anyone to your side. Yeah, you'll prove a point that any 2A supporter will appreciate, but a long gun is seen as less of a defense weapon than a pistol is.

    Open carry your handgun holster and you may just get into some good conversations with moderates, and wont come off as offensive to the antis. You also are actively showing that you've been disarmed, instead of just BEING disarmed.

    I don't have to tell you what the gun culture is like in your state, I'm sure you know. So what you're complaining about shouldn't come as a surprise. There is hope, though. CA has shot themselves in the foot with the carry ban because it nullifies case law that states that having unloaded OC being legal meant they weren't violating the 2nd amendment with their restrictive CC permits. I think that'll eventually cause you guys to get shall issue permits, but not after a long and arduous battle from the antis-as you do have so many of them in CA.

    Good luck with your fight.
    Hey that might be an interesting Idea though, Imagine a Cowboy rig with 38's or 44's in the belt loops
    ( real bullets) and when people ask why do you wear an Empty Holster, you can tell them that in Kalifornia
    people don't any longer have a right to defend them self's, and your wearing it in protest to the
    leaders of this State.
    Then hand them a flier showing how UOC used to be legal.
    Then wish them luck that with the 46,000 felons being let lose in the next 2 years
    in Kalifornia, that they won't get mugged, and raped.
    This we could do after the Jan 1st.
    Also some knothead, not seeing your empty holster, just might make a MWAG call and when
    they arrive seeing your empty, might get the call guy, for false calls. What a Kick !

    Robin47

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robin47 View Post
    Hey that might be an interesting Idea though, Imagine a Cowboy rig with 38's or 44's in the belt loops
    ( real bullets) and when people ask why do you wear an Empty Holster, you can tell them that in Kalifornia
    people don't any longer have a right to defend them self's, and your wearing it in protest to the
    leaders of this State.
    Then hand them a flier showing how UOC used to be legal.
    Then wish them luck that with the 46,000 felons being let lose in the next 2 years
    in Kalifornia, that they won't get mugged, and raped.
    This we could do after the Jan 1st.
    Also some knothead, not seeing your empty holster, just might make a MWAG call and when
    they arrive seeing your empty, might get the call guy, for false calls. What a Kick !

    Robin47
    If I'm not mistaken the reason UOC was outlawed, was because " To much police resources
    were being used up for MWAG calls, and all that PC 12031e checks" Am I right ?
    Well when using your Cowboy rig, you could also get a nice toy gun also WOW !
    I always wanted one like this.

    http://www.411toys.com/

    Just make sure your holster is longer then the tip !
    Hey they got neat Auto's to 1911's ETC if that's your bag !
    Hey Imagine the fun we could have, cheer up guys and as the guy said "Let the games begin".

    Robin47

  10. #10
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter bigtoe416's Avatar
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    I like the idea of coming up with a new flyer to hand out which describes how Californians lost their Second Amendment rights.

    As far as SOS's question goes though, I personally place blame on a variety of factors. Americans as a society have it too easy. We're born into wealth and relative freedom and even the poor or the homeless do pretty well for themselves compared to other countries. Without anything to struggle for we're inherently complacent. In my opinion a person can observe these behaviors practically everywhere. We sit around in front of our televisions or computers and are happy enough to forgo risking what we have. I imagine that the large number of us that are medicated to deal with our depressing lives simply compounds the problem. Our political parties are one in the same.

    Look through world news reports and you'll see foreigners fighting for anything they deem important. They're out in the streets throwing rocks or molotov cocktails. Meanwhile the occupy movement in America consists of people sitting around and holding signs. I guess it's kinda like the spoiled child syndrome. Give a kid everything he wants and he'll be dependent and unproductive. Give a kid hardly anything and he'll be ruthlessly independent.

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    State Pioneer ConditionThree's Avatar
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    This is a work in progress...

    I believe that involvement in 'activism' ebbs and flows. In our little world, it has a lot to do with the results we get. When one tactic seems to work, you have supporters join in and the activism grows organically, often at a faster rate than can be managed to be really effective. People love to be involved in sucessful movements.

    This opens the movement up to exploitation or unleashes such enthusiasm, that those participating do so at the risk of damaging the cause that they want to promote.

    When a strategy fails, people withdraw. Failure makes people reluctant to participate, makes them unwilling to contribute at the risk of wasting their time, or worse- losing more liberty.

    This is where we are right now. Curled up in a ball after being kicked square in the gonads. At some point, we are going to get back up, dust ourselves off and find our voice again.

    Where this all turns around is when we develop a new strategy to send our message. (Which, incidentally, does not include donning a cowboy rig with 'real' bullets and a 'toy' gun. As most Californian OC gunnies are aware, openly carrying a imitation firearm is actually as illegal as non-exempted UOC is going to be in a few short weeks. Nor does it mean that we should escalate the issue by openly carrying long guns- as has been demonstrated in recent days.) You want to revitalize a movement? Change your approach.
    New to OPEN CARRY in California? Click and read this first...

    NA MALE SUBJ ON FOOT, LS NB 3 AGO HAD A HOLSTERED HANDGUN ON HIS RIGHT HIP. WAS NOT BRANDISHING THE WEAPON, BUT RP FOUND SUSPICIOUS.
    CL SUBJ IN COMPLIANCE WITH LAW


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    Quote Originally Posted by Robin47 View Post
    If I'm not mistaken the reason UOC was outlawed, was because " To much police resources
    were being used up for MWAG calls, and all that PC 12031e checks" Am I right ?
    Well when using your Cowboy rig, you could also get a nice toy gun also WOW !
    I always wanted one like this.

    http://www.411toys.com/

    Just make sure your holster is longer then the tip !
    Hey they got neat Auto's to 1911's ETC if that's your bag !
    Hey Imagine the fun we could have, cheer up guys and as the guy said "Let the games begin".

    Robin47
    Unfortunately, the legislature in California banned the carrying of toy guns long before they banned the unloaded open carry of real ones.

    12550. As used in this article, the following definitions apply:
    (a) "BB device" is defined in subdivision (g) of Section 12001.
    (b) "Firearm" is defined in subdivision (b) of Section 12001.
    (c) "Imitation firearm" means any BB device, toy gun, replica of a
    firearm, or other device that is so substantially similar in
    coloration and overall appearance to an existing firearm as to lead a
    reasonable person to perceive that the device is a firearm.

    ...

    12556. (a) No person may openly display or expose any imitation
    firearm, as defined in Section 12550, in a public place.
    (b) Violation of this section, except as provided in subdivision
    (c), is an infraction punishable by a fine of one hundred dollars
    ($100) for the first offense, and three hundred dollars ($300) for a
    second offense.
    (c) A third or subsequent violation of this section is punishable
    as a misdemeanor.
    (d) Subdivision (a) shall not apply to the following, when the
    imitation firearm is:
    (1) Packaged or concealed so that it is not subject to public
    viewing.
    (2) Displayed or exposed in the course of commerce, including
    commercial film or video productions, or for service, repair, or
    restoration of the imitation firearm.
    (3) Used in a theatrical production, a motion picture, video,
    television, or stage production.
    (4) Used in conjunction with a certified or regulated sporting
    event or competition.
    (5) Used in conjunction with lawful hunting, or lawful pest
    control activities.
    (6) Used or possessed at certified or regulated public or private
    shooting ranges.
    (7) Used at fairs, exhibitions, expositions, or other similar
    activities for which a permit has been obtained from a local or state
    government.
    (8) Used in military, civil defense, or civic activities,
    including flag ceremonies, color guards, parades, award
    presentations, historical reenactments, and memorials.
    (9) Used for public displays authorized by public or private
    schools or displays that are part of a museum collection.
    (10) Used in parades, ceremonies, or other similar activities for
    which a permit has been obtained from a local or state government.
    (11) Displayed on a wall plaque or in a presentation case.
    (12) Used in areas where the discharge of a firearm is lawful.
    (13) A device where the entire exterior surface of the device is
    white, bright red, bright orange, bright yellow, bright green, bright
    blue, bright pink, or bright purple, either singly or as the
    predominant color in combination with other colors in any pattern, or
    where the entire device is constructed of transparent or translucent
    materials which permits unmistakable observation of the device's
    complete contents. Merely having an orange tip as provided in federal
    law and regulations does not satisfy this requirement. The entire
    surface must be colored or transparent or translucent.
    (e) For purposes of this section, the term "public place" means an
    area open to the public and includes streets, sidewalks, bridges,
    alleys, plazas, parks, driveways, front yards, parking lots,
    automobiles, whether moving or not, and buildings open to the general
    public, including those that serve food or drink, or provide
    entertainment, and the doorways and entrances to buildings or
    dwellings, and shall include public schools and a public or private
    college or university.
    (f) Nothing in this section shall be construed to preclude
    prosecution for a violation of Section 171b, 171.5, or 626.10.

    Although if you follow the color codes and make it a white gun with an orange tip it might still be legal and might appear more convincing that the other color options available.
    Last edited by Felid`Maximus; 11-26-2011 at 04:38 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Felid`Maximus View Post
    Unfortunately, the legislature in California banned the carrying of toy guns long before they banned the unloaded open carry of real ones.




    Although if you follow the color codes and make it a white gun with an orange tip it might still be legal and might appear more convincing that the other color options available.
    Yeah thanks FM, It figures that Calif would have had no toy gun carry either on the books.
    Now that I think about it I do remember reading about colored toy guns and Calif.
    Yup this state is really gone down the drain.

    Robin47

  14. #14
    Regular Member Save Our State's Avatar
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    Well, we've been just a little under a full five days without so much as a check in post, so I thought I'd at least check for a pulse out there. Code blue in the California room....call for a crash cart, or will we find DNR's on every arm in this room?
    The early inhabitants of this country, the native indians, lost their war to control the countryside. However they did not surrender their culture completely. They preserved it as much as possible. We have a duty to our descendants too.

  15. #15
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter bigtoe416's Avatar
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    I still check in to see what's going on in California, it's been pretty disappointing that California has gone down the route of oppressing natural rights.

  16. #16
    Activist Member Joshua Costa's Avatar
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    Checking in. Silenced but not defeated.
    We're not retreating, we are just attacking in a different direction.
    "I do not love the sword for its gleam, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory; I love only what they protect."
    J.R.R. Tolkien

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    It appears that actvism is also waning on the Pennsylvania page, but for the opposite reason. It's now easier and less expensive to get a License to Carry Firearms, and there are fewer and fewer police/citizen interactions when Open Carriers carry.

  18. #18
    Newbie cato's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigtoe416 View Post
    I still check in to see what's going on in California, it's been pretty disappointing that California has gone down the route of oppressing natural rights.
    CA has been on this 'route' for many years. What occurred with handguns and what will likely occur to long guns was and is not surprising.

    What was disappointing was seeing natural rights supporters ride their horses (UOC) directly toward the enemy's fortified guns (antis CA political monopoly) without artillery perpetration (court carry win) or infantry support (s1983 back up suits) no matter how correct they were that that terrain (carry) needed to be taken; especially disappointing when it turns out that sapper/miner Gura had already lit the fuses in the tunnels (national carry coalition law suits) to clear the obstacles.

    I see that Maryland just had their wall breached!
    http://saf.org/viewpr-new.asp?id=395

    http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=543946
    Last edited by cato; 03-06-2012 at 11:20 PM.

  19. #19
    Newbie cato's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joshua Costa View Post
    Checking in. Silenced but not defeated.
    We're not retreating, we are just attacking in a different direction.
    Good to hear. There is much We can do to promote a greater acceptance of self defense rights in Ca.

    One avenue;

    http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=362574

    Please post other options so we can keep people involved!
    Last edited by cato; 03-06-2012 at 11:15 PM.

  20. #20
    Regular Member Save Our State's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cato View Post
    CA has been on this 'route' for many years. What occurred with handguns and what will likely occur to long guns was and is not surprising.

    What was disappointing was seeing natural rights supporters ride their horses (UOC) directly toward the enemy's fortified guns (antis CA political monopoly) without artillery perpetration (court carry win) or infantry support (s1983 back up suits) no matter how correct they were that that terrain (carry) needed to be taken; especially disappointing when it turns out that sapper/miner Gura had already lit the fuses in the tunnels (national carry coalition law suits) to clear the obstacles.
    http://saf.org/viewpr-new.asp?id=395

    http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=543946
    Ah.....
    You are under the mistaken premise that all the UOC'ers were pursuing the exact same goal. I don't think we all are. I cannot speak for everyone here, or every OC'er who uh...rode their horses....., but I did not always do so as an infantry soldier for the gun rights crowd. I did so for all rights. I did so for the culture, the tradition, and the educational effort. Some of us believe that it is as important to educate the next generation and the present one about how ALL rights are being treated, and the 2nd amendment was just one in a parade of attacks on our freedoms. I don't really care for your assessment of our effort based upon your interpretation of our goals. One thing is being highlighted by our effort, and that is that there are powerful forces out there taking away our rights and freedoms. Also, that saying you have rights, is not the same as practicing them. There's no real repercussion to making a verbal or written claim as to your rights; Our government has always tolerated a good measure of bragging. But practicing a right is becoming more and more of a hazard. OC'ers have shown that our government is becoming less and less tolerant of practicing a right in public. It's not just the guns; it's a pattern of abuse we are highlighting

  21. #21
    State Pioneer ConditionThree's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Save Our State View Post
    Ah.....
    You are under the mistaken premise that all the UOC'ers were pursuing the exact same goal. I don't think we all are. I cannot speak for everyone here, or every OC'er who uh...rode their horses....., but I did not always do so as an infantry soldier for the gun rights crowd. I did so for all rights. I did so for the culture, the tradition, and the educational effort. Some of us believe that it is as important to educate the next generation and the present one about how ALL rights are being treated, and the 2nd amendment was just one in a parade of attacks on our freedoms. I don't really care for your assessment of our effort based upon your interpretation of our goals. One thing is being highlighted by our effort, and that is that there are powerful forces out there taking away our rights and freedoms. Also, that saying you have rights, is not the same as practicing them. There's no real repercussion to making a verbal or written claim as to your rights; Our government has always tolerated a good measure of bragging. But practicing a right is becoming more and more of a hazard. OC'ers have shown that our government is becoming less and less tolerant of practicing a right in public. It's not just the guns; it's a pattern of abuse we are highlighting
    I have a question; How are anyone's goals relevant in light of our current circumstances? Particularly- Did anyone's reasons for doing what they thought was right have any effect on the legislature's response?

    Personally, I think it is completely irrelevant what our goals were- whether it was for personal defense, a demonstration of legal activity, promotion of the 2nd amendment, or a media grabbing protest instigated by sniveling, small-minded, hang-wringing, oath-breaking, porcine assemblymember- the outcome was the same. Regardless of the goals we had in mind, none of them fit into a strategy that took into account that our state house is populated by a majority of socialist democrats who have carte blanche to pass whatever legislation they desire. Ultimately, whatever they dont approve of will be banned, and likewise, whatever they support, becomes mandated. They are no respecters of rights- speech, assembly, armed self-defense, privacy or property.

    Your suggestion that UOC'rs did not share the same goal, also hints the reason why the movement has stalled even though there is not a blanket prohibition. Those who were doing this as a demonstration that open carry is legal, can no longer say "It's perfectly legal." Those who promoted the 2nd amendment or carried for personal defense have elected to transport in the narrowly defined circumstances under law... which does not typically draw group participation. And the protest of the p*ssies in the state house has netted nothing but increased distain of their anti-libertarian values, since any display has been made impractical.

    In order to restore our movement, gun rights supporters must unify behind something that is effectual in spite of the state legislature's best efforts to hinder our abilty to keep and carry firearms in public. We must find their kryptonite and build our shield out of as much of it as we can find and exploit the seperation of powers within our government. Many of us believe that kryptonite can be found in the rulings of the Federal judiciary - since we cannot rely on California's executive, legislature, or courts to protect our rights.

    This, however, does not fit in the timetable most would like- and getting back to loaded open carry as we deserve, will only advance on a geologic schedule.
    New to OPEN CARRY in California? Click and read this first...

    NA MALE SUBJ ON FOOT, LS NB 3 AGO HAD A HOLSTERED HANDGUN ON HIS RIGHT HIP. WAS NOT BRANDISHING THE WEAPON, BUT RP FOUND SUSPICIOUS.
    CL SUBJ IN COMPLIANCE WITH LAW


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  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by ConditionThree View Post
    I have a question; How are anyone's goals relevant in light of our current circumstances? Particularly- Did anyone's reasons for doing what they thought was right have any effect on the legislature's response?.
    I'm not just reaching out to the legislative body. As you stated, they have their own agenda. The way I see it at this point is that I, We, need to start accumulating people who think along our lines and begin to pool up more often. At this point, I don't believe the legislature will ever respect the constitution, state or federal, or the broader electorate's wants, demands, rights, no matter the outcome of legislation, court rulings, and/or votes. I believe we will be bullied, arrested, slandered, Libeled, or whatever it takes to have our rights taken away. the thrust of my effort is not sitting in those committee hearing rooms at the capitol anymore, because pretty much nothing I've done there has worked. I'm hoping to cause the legislature to react to me/us, rather than us reacting to them first all the time. At least we started to become relevant with OC. The effect may have not been desirable, but let's admit that we were going there anyway, either by legislation in the statehouse or in practice by law enforcement. The legislature has been responding the same way for the past decade regardless of what we do or don't do.
    at the risk of off-topic, I'd point out the issue of illegal immigration as a case in point. remain silent; more illegals come and get more from us for nothing. Speak out and be villanized in addition to seeing more legislation favoring illegals. This state legislature does what it wants, and federal law be damned, except when it favors them. Expecting the gun issue to be any different is probably not sane thinking

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