Number of carry rounds?

You only need one shot to stop the bad guy. Make it count.

ProShooter said:

You only need one shot to stop the bad guy. Make it count.

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Proshooter, you of all people should know that under stress police miss 50-80% of the time. When they do hit it isn't usually a one shot stop.

I have been told by my retired-police CHP instructor where he personally knew of a meth-head getting shot 47 times where the 47th bullet severed his spinal chord and finally ended the ordeal.

I read online and saw video (reenactment) of a police officer hitting a man 22 times (equal or more misses) before he stopped. This individual was not on drugs or alcohol.

So yes an encounter may end with no shots fired, one shot, or multiple. I have to plan for the multiple option.

T33J did a spreadsheet on the ODU crimes and how many assailants there were on average. I think 2-6 were the common so at least put a few more than one bullet in your gun!!!

45acpForMe said:

Proshooter, you of all people should know that under stress police miss 50-80% of the time. When they do hit it isn't usually a one shot stop.

I have been told by my retired-police CHP instructor where he personally knew of a meth-head getting shot 47 times where the 47th bullet severed his spinal chord and finally ended the ordeal.

I read online and saw video (reenactment) of a police officer hitting a man 22 times (equal or more misses) before he stopped. This individual was not on drugs or alcohol.

So yes an encounter may end with no shots fired, one shot, or multiple. I have to plan for the multiple option.

T33J did a spreadsheet on the ODU crimes and how many assailants there were on average. I think 2-6 were the common so at least put a few more than one bullet in your gun!!!

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There are a couple of things to consider.

First and most important, the reports of unstoppable BG's are very....VERY, isolated. I'm talking about real verified reports.

One day a group of County Deputies from several areas and Marine Resource Police and I were discussing how to waste time on a pretty day, and the subject came up. Most agreed that many of the reports never really happened and the ones that had, were the result of poor shooting.

Next is that most Cops take longer shots than a civilian can get away with. As mentioned above, far too many LEO's couldn't hit their butts with both hands.

The 2-6 assailants are reasonable. The encounters I've had involved one group of three and the other a single person.

Last is the caliber used. LEO administration loves Girlie Guns, 38 Spl, 9mm, .40.
The Military went to the 38 for a very short time. Repeated reports of the enemy hacking up our boys got the 45ACP back up and running....until the service lost it's mind again and adopted the 9mm.

gm2max said:

I got to thinking, "I wonder if I carry more ammo than the other OC/CC people." I carry 5 mags, 2 of them in my left pocket, 2 in a mag holder, and 1 in the glock. Total of 75 rounds. I just don't want to be the sorry bastard to run out of ammo, in any situation.

How do I compare with others?

Just wondering

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While on the one hand, I believe in "no such thing as TOO much ammo", I'd have a heck of a time carrying 75 rounds of 230 grain, .45 on a regular basis, OC OR CC. As it is, the 12-round mags in my .45 weigh more than the pistol itself,empty lol.
I carry 12 loaded, 1 spare 12-round mag, then a smaller BUG (.25) with the 6-round mag loaded.
After that, it's down to my knives.

There's too many variables to start going into the "well if this happened, I would...." and "in most shootings, this or that" as every situation/shooting-incident is different.
Provided I were able to score effective hits with the .45, I doubt more than 2-to-4 rounds,max would be needed in most cases..but, one never knows how it will play out until the lead flies, soo..

I can back that up !!! Most of your donut cops cant shoot worth a damnn !

peter nap said:

There are a couple of things to consider.

First and most important, the reports of unstoppable BG's are very....VERY, isolated. I'm talking about real verified reports.

One day a group of County Deputies from several areas and Marine Resource Police and I were discussing how to waste time on a pretty day, and the subject came up. Most agreed that many of the reports never really happened and the ones that had, were the result of poor shooting.

Next is that most Cops take longer shots than a civilian can get away with. As mentioned above, far too many LEO's couldn't hit their butts with both hands.

The 2-6 assailants are reasonable. The encounters I've had involved one group of three and the other a single person.

Last is the caliber used. LEO administration loves Girlie Guns, 38 Spl, 9mm, .40.
The Military went to the 38 for a very short time. Repeated reports of the enemy hacking up our boys got the 45ACP back up and running....until the service lost it's mind again and adopted the 9mm.

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I can personally back that statement up that your average run of the mill donut cop cant shoot worth a darn. I go to an indoor range (shooters club in harahan LA) and quite often there will be a LEO (sherriff, city police, even some FEDS go there before they officially qualify.) and I can tell you, their skills are shockingly poor. Occaisonally I will get one in a nearby stall that can shoot so-so, and rarely do I get one that can be considered above average. I think they need much higher standards simply because of the situations they can be placed in, afterall it's their job.

'Nuff Said. :banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead:

peter nap said:

There are a couple of things to consider.

First and most important, the reports of unstoppable BG's are very....VERY, isolated. I'm talking about real verified reports.

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I'll agree. People tend to talk about the outrageous events rather than every day stuff. Adrenaline can account for bad guys continuing on after being hit a few times though just like good guys.

peter nap said:

One day a group of County Deputies from several areas and Marine Resource Police and I were discussing how to waste time on a pretty day, and the subject came up. Most agreed that many of the reports never really happened and the ones that had, were the result of poor shooting. Next is that most Cops take longer shots than a civilian can get away with. As mentioned above, far too many LEO's couldn't hit their butts with both hands.

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I am a bit surprised that LEO can be such poor shooters since many were ex-military. I consider myself an average pistol shooter and have been coming in the middle of the pack in the competitions I have been running. So realistically I think if both me and the bad guy are moving around trying to not get shot and looking for cover, missing 50% of the time seems very reasonable even for a good shot.

peter nap said:

The 2-6 assailants are reasonable. The encounters I've had involved one group of three and the other a single person..

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Multiple assailants worry me and especially if all of them were armed. I tend to not be out late at night when many of these attacks take place but worry about my kids as they grow older and venture out on their own.

peter nap said:

Last is the caliber used. LEO administration loves Girlie Guns, 38 Spl, 9mm, .40.
The Military went to the 38 for a very short time. Repeated reports of the enemy hacking up our boys got the 45ACP back up and running....until the service lost it's mind again and adopted the 9mm.

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I also agree hence my username.

45acpForMe said:

I am a bit surprised that LEO can be such poor shooters since many were ex-military. I consider myself an average pistol shooter and have been coming in the middle of the pack in the competitions I have been running. So realistically I think if both me and the bad guy are moving around trying to not get shot and looking for cover, missing 50% of the time seems very reasonable even for a good shot.

You, Proshooter, ODA, Etc, like to shoot and pride yourselves in your proficiency. A lot of the new breed of LEO's don't like guns or shooting and pride themselves more in their new Blackberry.

50% is a high percentage considering the fact that in order to justify a shooting, your distance will be more like ten or twelve feet...or less.



I also agree hence my username.

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.....

gm2max, YOU WIN!!!

I tell people that they should generally assume three attackers when they're out and about. Most times, it's only one or two, and four or more is infrequent and more closely associated with gang-retribution shootings. So, in theory, a J-frame five-shot revolver in .38 will do everything you're likely to need, without reloading. But I think it would be best to assume you'll need up to five rounds per attacker. That's fifteen, total. Or, for concealed carry, a Kahr of any model will hold at least five rounds, and with two spare magazines, again way more than you're likely to need. Or a J-frame S&W with two speedloaders. If you need more than that, I'd say you also need more time at the range learning to hit what you're aiming at. Which is a good idea for everyone. (Apparently especially law enforcement folks - an FBI study I read a while back said 80% of bullets expended by LEO's during emergency situations went unaccounted for! Those are the ones which no one knows where they went. Of the remaining 20% that hit the target, innocent bystanders, store windows, motor vehicle traffic, etc., less than 2% actually hit the target, and that was generally in ways that appeared to be accidental, such as having grazed badguy's leg or a hit in the off-shoulder, etc.) But, just like LEO's your aim won't be as good in an adrenaline-charged emergency situation as it is on a pleasant afternoon at the range. You may need an extra cartridge or two.

But g2max, I'd say it's a safe bet you got everyone else beat by a long shot.

T Dubya said:

I would be embarrassed to stand next to someone with that much ammo. I open-carried my SP101 .357 3" tonight. Five in the cylinder and five in a speed loader. Ten total. As someone with a lot of experience looking at bullet wounds I feel comfortable that if I landed one .357 It would do just fine . Doesn't matter where I land it a .357 is a sick round that leaves a nasty wound cavity. You guys ever stop to think that you look ridiculous?

I still like 1911's So maybe 17...... Maybe.

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I suspect we may share some life experiences. I usually carry my Kimber with 7 in the mag, one in the chamber along with a Ruger LCR-357 BUG. Its usually faster to draw a BUG than reload most pistols.

When I OC I have 15+1 in the gun, and two 17rd magazines on my belt, .40 S&W 180gr. The gun mag has Hornady TAP, first backup mag Federal HST, and second backup mag Remington Golden Sabre. When I CC I usually have the same setup 95% of the time, but will sometimes carry just the gun and an extra mag in pocket and a few times have carried just the gun depending on the situation. I carry a handgun range case in the car with an additional 17round mag with Ranger T-Series and some shotshells.

user said:

I tell people that they should generally assume three attackers when they're out and about. Most times, it's only one or two, and four or more is infrequent and more closely associated with gang-retribution shootings.

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This more or less fits my view on how much to carry.

Most of the time, I carry only the 6-7 in my magazine (depending on which firearm I'm carrying). I've looked into getting a magazine carrier to carry 1-2 more magazines, but I haven't felt a pressing need.

I figure that if I'm in a situation bad enough that I need to reload more than once, I'm already in over my head and out of luck. I don't carry to play the hero or get into a massive gunfight. I carry to protect me and mine against immediate threats. My goal isn't so much to stop the threat as to extract myself and my family from the situation by whatever means are necessary.

Personally, I would also think that carrying too many rounds with you could easily invite legal trouble if you ever have to act in self defense. It can give an over-zealous prosecutor a basis to tell the jury "This man was there looking for a fight. He was carrying enough ammunition to start a small war!" Even if you only fired one round, and the others remain unused, it can still create an impression that would be much harder to overcome in court. Most average (non-firearm-aficionado) people don't understand that many guns these days come with 15(+)-round magazines standard. They still think of guns like revolvers holding only 6 rounds.

There's also the mental image that a lot of ammunition carries. It was fairly widely reported that Jared Loughner (the Tucson shooter) had around 90 rounds of ammunition on him (2 30-round magazines, and 2 15-round magazines). You better believe that a prosecutor will use that sort of comparison to their advantage to sway a jury.

With a lower-capacity firearm (like a revolver or a 1911), 1-2 reloads should be sufficient to get yourself out of the situation and still have additional rounds on hand until the police show up. With a higher-capacity firearm, more than 1 reload could easily be portrayed as excessive.

I carry a Sig P226/357 with 12+1 and 2x12 spare.

I probably ought to carry a BUG.

additional mags or FS BUG or compact BUG

Depending on what firearm I'm carrying usually 7 or 15rds, which equals one mag either way.
If I feel the need for more than one mag/reload I just carry a second FS gun (identical to my primary) and a reload.

16 rounds at the most, i got the mag in the gun and a spare in a pocket i dont expect to run out of ammo i only keep the spare with me incase the mag in the gun fails

I wont tell any one they are carrying too much ammo, it up to them. I carry a spare mag usually, but I have also gone without. Number of rounds varies with the caliber and type of pistol I carry at the time.

ODA 226 said:

8+1 in the .45 and two additional 8 round mags on the belt.

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+1
Sometimes 1 spare mag.

If I think I'll need more I'll carry a rifle.

I typically carry my XDm40 which is 16+1 and one spare mag in my kydex for 16 more rounds.

I just recently picked up a LCP, so add up 6+1 rounds..

So added up thats an even 40.

45acpForMe said:

Proshooter, you of all people should know that under stress police miss 50-80% of the time. When they do hit it isn't usually a one shot stop.

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True, but why is that? Because they don't T R A I N !

Now, I'll be the first to admit that I usually carry my Glock and I've got 15 rounds available. I usually have a spare mag in the truck somewhere. I tell students that they should have a spare mag, or at least the extra ammo box somewhere close by.

Making the shot count though, is the trick. Let me tell you 2 stories: these are meant solely to show you what training can do. In 2006, I was the Sergeant in charge of a small group of Deputies that were chosen to go to Blackwater for a new courthouse security program. One of the scenarios that was set up was a mock courtroom where a judge had received death threats. There were 2 potential shooters, myself and another Sgt. We were all issued Glock 9mm simunition guns. The Deputies brought the "judge" out (one of our Deputies), and he went on the bench. The judge was wearing a protective face shield for safety, and a plastic "chest plate" that we all wore. The chest plate was to simulate that he was wearing body armor. I sat in the back of the room and one Deputy was assigned to watch me. He stood literally 2 feet away. In my seat, I was about 10-12 yards from the judge. The other sergeant caused a ruckus and got everyone's attention...and that was my chance. I drew my pistol from my seat and took one shot...and hit the judge in the throat with a 9mm sim round. Again, I was 10-12 yards away. He immediately fell off the bench and went down while I got blasted with about 12 9mm sim shots at close range. Now that is when I shot all the time and regularly qualified.

2 weeks ago - I was running our Defensive Handgun class and at the end of the day, a few students stayed around for some extra practice. 2 Navy guys in the class were saying that the part of the course that they shot at 25 yards was tough, so they wanted to run it again. For laughs, they took an 8 1/2 X 11 piece of paper, and folded it in half, making it about 4 x 5. They practiced shooting it at 25 yards and were pretty pissed that they couldnt hit it. I told them not to worry, as that is a very difficult shot. They then asked me to give it a try. I fired 10 rounds, at this 4x5 paper from 25 yards, and I hit it 6 times. Three of the four remaining rounds hit just below the paper. Now, I haven't shot anything at 25 yards in who knows how long...at least since I last had to qualify in LE. I was actually pretty proud of myself that I could still do that.

The point is, once you learn the skills and master them, you can do anything with your gun. One shot stops are completely possible. Its great to have spare ammo available, but if you can make your hits count with less, then that is ok too. Make your gun go to work for you, and make your shots count.

ProShooter said:

I sat in the back of the room and one Deputy was assigned to watch me. He stood literally 2 feet away. In my seat, I was about 10-12 yards from the judge. The other sergeant caused a ruckus and got everyone's attention...and that was my chance. I drew my pistol from my seat and took one shot...and hit the judge in the throat with a 9mm sim round. Again, I was 10-12 yards away. He immediately fell off the bench and went down while I got blasted with about 12 9mm sim shots at close range. Now that is when I shot all the time and regularly qualified.

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I can hit a 10" dinner plate past 50 yards with a 4" gun with about 75% success all day. I cannot imagine making a shot like that though! Drawing from concealed, ensuring a proper grip, and hitting your target in less than about a second or two is amazing. Did the guy assigned to you attempt to shoot you or try to grab your gun?

Of course it also helps to use enough gun, Jim!

DDR next to a 44Mag