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Thread: Went shopping while CCing, the first time.

  1. #1
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    Went shopping while CCing, the first time.

    Yeah, Black Friday probably is not the best time to hone my skills at carrying concealed but my wife wasn't feeling well and had promised to take our daughter shopping. So with the promise of breakfast midpoint thru the morning and also assurring me she would not take me anywhere I had to disarm, I agreed to chauffer them around.
    It was 4:00 am. and after driving 45 min. we started at the Wausau mall. The entrances to the mall were "guarded" by the "recall Walker" people, which was no problem as the mall is posted and I wasn't going in there anyway. So after accidently spilling my morning coffee on about 3,000 signatures I hustled into a store. I still don't know what to think as the stores are gun friendly however their landlord isn't. So after walking around a bit and making sure not to get between a sales rack and a bunch of crazies, I proceeded to my car to read a book I just got for my birthday. It is titled,"IN THE GRAVEST EXTREME" By Massad Ayoob. Great book by the way.
    About every 1/2 hour I would get a call to drive around the front of the stores so my shoppers could off-load there deals in the car and lighten the load so they could move faster.
    About 9:00 am we decided to go to "the log cabin" for breakfast. As I scanned the door to look for a posted sign, my wife assured me that there was none. To my surprise she must have checked that out on one of her previous trips, and I didn't think that she cared. Anyway we had a great meal and a good rest of the day. I got about 1/2 way thru my book and, and, I just had an idea. I will post it in MKEgal defense fund thread .

  2. #2
    Regular Member Nam-Vet's Avatar
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    Great story' Hey, I'm in central WI. also.

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    Oh so wait...you didn't feel the uncontrollable urge to deal with all the frustration and business by drawing your weapon and mowing people down? Because you know that's why people shouldn't be allowed to carry, we will just all of a sudden be driven to draw our weapon and shoot people now that we can carry in those types of situations where we get frustrated such as busy malls or incidents of getting cut off on the road. Us carrier's mindset will change when we carry a gun and we just won't be able to control our anger. Just ask the antis. lol sarcasm off.

  4. #4
    Regular Member carry for myself's Avatar
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    actually a day like today is perfect to hone your CC skills. if you get out without any MWAG calls, gun grabs or partial exposures you did great :-D
    i would rather run out of blood, breath and life. and die fighting. than run out of ammo , and die with my pants down -Tom Scantas

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    Regular Member MilProGuy's Avatar
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    Thumbs up

    Congratulations on your "maiden" concealed carry outing!

    From what I read, it seems you rather enjoyed your new station in life.
    Proud Veteran ~ U.S. Army / Army Reserve

    Mississippi State Guard ~ Honorably Retired


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    Regular Member jpm84092's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by carry for myself View Post
    actually a day like today is perfect to hone your CC skills. if you get out without any MWAG calls, gun grabs or partial exposures you did great :-D
    As a WCI member who has had a permit for 9 years and carried concealed for 3, then moved to WI for 3 years and could not carry concealed for those 3 years, and now has again carried concealed daily for over 3 years, I could not agree more. Today (and the rest of this weekend) may be THE perfect day(s) for concealed carry practice.

    Even those who joined the open carry movement and have open carried may experience a bit of nervousness carrying concealed until you get more experience. - Does it "print"? Did somebody see and call in a MWAG to 911? Did I miss the posted sign? This internal questioning is all perfectly normal and yet will vary by individual. Some WCI members will immediately take to concealed carry and others will approach it in "baby steps". The important thing is to continue to improve your confidence and your comfort in social settings in which you carry.

    Some will "deep conceal carry" and others will be a bit more fluid and not mind if somebody gets a glimpse (most would not know what they are looking at anyway). I typically "casual carry" with a shirt of sweater covering my holster, but not giving it much thought if a wind gust blows it open for all to see. Whatever, your choice, concealed carry is new to Wisconsin and good technique requires practice.

    Carry on my friends
    My cats support the Second Amendment. NRA Life Member, NRA Instructor: Pistol, Rifle, & Personal Protection - NRA Certified Range Safety Officer, Utah BCI Certified Concealed Firearm Permit Instructor.
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    Wal-Mart and kohls just after midnight "this morning", no problems. I must have done an ok job at covering my firearm up, considering the police patrolling the Walmart didn't notice the dozen times we walked past each other.
    "I don't really care for "cream cheese"..."

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    Regular Member BROKENSPROKET's Avatar
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    I keep forgetting to look for the signs. Don't see any on me way out.

  9. #9
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    Don't know about Kohl's, but I know Wal-Mart doesn't post.

    I had a hilarious encounter with an un-educated LEO outside of Cabela's. Had my carry weapon in a shoulder rig while waiting outside of Cabela's for them to open Friday (which was a total joke, but that's a different story). I was reaching into my inside coat pocket for something and the Sheriff saw my weapon. He came over carrying on about how I can't have a weapon on the property, and demanded to see my permit. I casually displayed my permit and ID, and asked him what he meant by "couldn't have it on the property". Never got a straight answer out of him. He finally grabbed one of the employees who was walking by, pointed to me, and said "he can't have a weapon". LEO couldn't explain why to the employee either. The employee told the LEO that not only are they not posted, but they welcome "legal carriers".

    LEO handed my permit and ID back, and grumbled something about "keeping an eye on me" and walked away. Guys I met in line were hilarious about it (all ex-military and all permit holders themselves). About an hour later another sheriff came walking by, chatting with everyone. When he got to me, he asked if I was the "trouble-maker" the other sheriff had spoken to, and then apologized for him. Apparently he was a reserve sheriff who works part time for big events. New sheriff told us to have fun and stay warm, and then moved on chatting up the crowd.

    After Cabela's, I carried to Best Buy twice,Gander Mountain, Home Depot, Wal-Mart, Target, and Starbucks. Employee at Best Buy saw the grip, recognized it, and made a comment about how his wife was still waiting for her permit.

    All in all, a good day. Just wish I could have found some better deals. Spent a total of $250 yesterday, got a large chunk of Christmas shopping done.
    You can speak softy and carry a big stick, but I'll stick to my guns.

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  10. #10
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    Black Friday Carry

    I also OPEN carried at Cabela's yesterday and many other places. I started at the OC breakfast in Delafield with a bunch of people on this list. From there myself and 2 others went to Wal-Mart to use their ATM. As we were walking out the doors to leave, Delafield PD was walking in but didn't notice us and didn't say a word. From there I went to Fleet Farm in Germantown, Menards, Gander Mountain (Gun World), and Cabela's, and a Mobil gas station. No issues at any one of those places, in fact nobody said a word at all. I had my stepdad with me and he kept telling me how many people were pointing to me. My carrying and talks with him made him buy a holster at Cabelas for his Colt 45.

    I noticed in this thread someone mentioned an attempted "grab". Are these common when open carrying?? I use a blackhawk serpa holster which has rention but could still be grabbed if someone knew how to work it. I consider myself EXTREMELY aware while carrying so I am not too concerned, just curious

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    Incident at cabelas

    I think it is hilarious that the LEO couldn't give you an answer and then TATTLED on you to the STORE EMPLOYEE like a little kid. You should have gotten his name. That officer is obviously not competent to be a LEO if he is looking for guidance from a retail store employee on how to do his job! I think that is unacceptable and upsets me. Being only a "reserve" policeman is no excuse for such inappropriate behavior.

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    Police still getting kinks out of the system.

    Some departments have more than one, some maybe none, Deputy Fifes.

    Lot of changes all at once in November to digest!

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    Smile Good for your Dad!

    Quote Originally Posted by G17C View Post
    My carrying and talks with him made him buy a holster at Cabelas for his Colt 45.

    I noticed in this thread someone mentioned an attempted "grab". Are these common when open carrying?? I use a blackhawk serpa holster which has rention but could still be grabbed if someone knew how to work it. I consider myself EXTREMELY aware while carrying so I am not too concerned, just curious
    Good for your Dad! Tell him he's welcome at our get-togethers also. As we age, us gray hairs need something to even the odds with a young attacker.

    As far as gun-grabs, that was written by a gentleman from Maine who was just discussing what COULD happen. To my knowledge, there's only been one gun stolen from an open carrier and that was under suspicious circumstances. If you practice situational awareness and have a retention holster there is almost no chance of a grab, unless you meet up with the lady friend of Auric (shotgun) who is reputed to be able to get any gun out of any holster.... Maybe he will chime in here with her creds.
    Dave
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    Grabs

    Thanks for the info. I didn't think it was a real problem, but while OC, the thought had popped in my mind about that happening. Then I saw it mentioned here and my idea was no longer just "in my head." Glad to hear its not common. Yesterday, while OC in my brothers house, I considered unloading (and checking it twice) and then challenging him to try and get it off my hip at various suprise times throughout the day. I was just curious to see how easy it would be for him, if at all. Seems like a practice like that could show me my vulnerabilities (as if there are any )

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    Quote Originally Posted by Carryon View Post
    Police still getting kinks out of the system.

    Some departments have more than one, some maybe none, Deputy Fifes.

    Lot of changes all at once in November to digest!
    I agree that police have a lot to digest, and for us CC is a big deal that seems like it should be in our minds, but for many its not and we have to remember that police still have all their normal police work to do in addition to dealing with this new weapon issue. But what irks me is the fact that this incident was at CABELAS on BLACK FRIDAY where there is a large likelyhood that MANY guns will be in and around the property, moreso than in the general public areas. Weapons that are being both carried and transported. ANY OFFICER posted to be there or in that area should be been made CERTAIN to know the law well. EVERY officer EVERYWHERE should be by now, but especially those in high weapon movement areas.

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    I've been CCing since recieving my License on the 7th. The best I felt was on Wednesday when I stopped at the Valley View mall, (La Crosse) didn't see any signs. Trust me I looked (a few people can by looking at me while I checked out every notice on the doors) went through Sears, out into the middle of the mall and passed by a rent a cop and thought to myself, if you only knew.

    I do not miss the dance we had to do before 1 November.

    JJC

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    Quote Originally Posted by JJC View Post
    The best I felt was on Wednesday when I stopped at the Valley View mall, (La Crosse) didn't see any signs. Trust me I looked (a few people can by looking at me while I checked out every notice on the doors) went through Sears, out into the middle of the mall and passed by a rent a cop and thought to myself, if you only knew. JJC
    The problem is that the stores are ok but most malls that I know of are posted. As in Wausau the doors to the stores are not posted but the doors to the mall are. Now you can go from the store into the mall and not see a sign but a leo told me that it is my responsibilty to know where I can and can not carry. Apparently you can be arrested for carrying in a mall even if you entered through a store that was not posted. I am sure that there smarter people then me that will reply on this one. I am sure that this one will be tested in court and I would think that the carrier would win as he was able to enter thru a public entrance without walking past any signs.

  18. #18
    Regular Member hardballer's Avatar
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    Glad you had a good day. They should all be so good.
    Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid. Han Solo

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  19. #19
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    I was reaching into my inside coat pocket for something and the Sheriff saw my weapon. .

    LEO handed my permit and ID back, and grumbled something about "keeping an eye on me" and walked away.


    Moooon eye!

  20. #20
    Regular Member RR_Broccoli's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kc.38 View Post
    The problem is that the stores are ok but most malls that I know of are posted. As in Wausau the doors to the stores are not posted but the doors to the mall are. Now you can go from the store into the mall and not see a sign but a leo told me that it is my responsibilty to know where I can and can not carry. Apparently you can be arrested for carrying in a mall even if you entered through a store that was not posted. I am sure that there smarter people then me that will reply on this one. I am sure that this one will be tested in court and I would think that the carrier would win as he was able to enter thru a public entrance without walking past any signs.
    You can be arrested for any crap some walking pile of bacon-bits chooses to make up. It's a sad fact that LEOs don't enforce the law, they arrest based on what the department wants to arrest for, combined with their own personal biases. At no time, are they actually expected to know the law, unlike the citizens they arrest. The DA is supposed to know the law, but of course, you can get arrested for whatever before getting to that point.

    (That's why being arrested for something means nothing. It has the moral equivalence of being bit by a mosquito.)

    Anyway:

    943.13(2)(bm)2 specifically states "ALL ENTRANCES"


    2. a. For the purposes of sub. (1m) (c) 1m., an owner
    of a residence that is not a single−family residence has
    notified an individual not to enter or remain in a part of
    that building, or on the grounds of that building, while
    carrying a firearm or with a particular type of firearm if
    the owner has posted a sign that is located in a prominent
    place near all of the entrances to the part of the building
    to which the restriction applies or near all probable access
    points to the grounds to which the restriction applies and
    any individual entering the building or the grounds can be
    reasonably expected to see the sign


    A sign on another entrance does not fall under "reasonably expected". People are not quantum particles, we do not enter all and one entrance at the same time.

    The cop is wrong, and you would win in court. The mall is incompletely posted and the signs the mall has do not qualify under the law as "notice" if you happened to walk in the other entrance.

    That said, if you know the other doors are posted you now have "notice". But, if where you do walk in there is no sign, and you don't have information about the desires of the owner otherwise, you are not breaking the law.

    SO. Look for signs on the door you DO go in and don't worry about it. It's not like they couldn't put a little stand up at the door between the store and the mall if they want adequate posting. At the same time, avoiding the doors that are posted to go in intentionally from the non-posted door is breaking the law.
    "I can only be held responsible for my own stupidity." - Captain Nemo

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