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Thread: I suggest carrying a pistol in a legal case on a belt in protest

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    I suggest carrying a pistol in a legal case on a belt in protest

    If the only legal way to carry a pistol next year is concealed in a lockable case, then why can't the case be attached to a belt worn around the waste? Would that make it an illegal holstered gun? It would not matter if there was a gun in the case or not. Would law enforcement officials have the right to see inside the case as private property? If many people carried cases on their waste in public, this could bring attention to the absurdity of the ban on open carried guns. This is especially true if a pistol could be just as quickly and easily made ready to fire from a case as from a holster. What do you think?

    Maurice

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    Regular Member MilProGuy's Avatar
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    For those wishing to make a statement, it would certainly do that; but for the purposes of self-defense it would be useless.

    Good luck to you if you decide to make a statement in the method you described.
    Proud Veteran ~ U.S. Army / Army Reserve

    Mississippi State Guard ~ Honorably Retired


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    Actually, it will technically be legal to unloaded open carry in a locked case, so if you had a case where you could see the gun in it while it was totally enclosed, (in a transparent case, for instance) it should be legal.

    Also note, that while in the past, it was explicitly said that a firearm carried openly in a belt holster was by not considered concealed, this wording is repealed next year. (I'm not sure if that wording had much effect anyway... it did not require one to carry openly in a belt holster, it merely bolstered that mode of carry.)

    However, concealed and unloaded in a locked case and you must rely on additional exemptions, such as traveling directly to or from a vehicle. Personally, I would not be willing to risk locked unloaded concealed carry. Especially if you do it as a form of a protest and tell people there is a gun in the case, you will give up your 4th right against search and seizure, which is the main thing preventing a prosecution, it seems to me, unless if you can prove that you are indeed not just standing around protesting in a public square but actually moving from your vehicle directly to some other place where you have any lawful purpose to transport the gun to.

    You can however, carry openly or concealed without a locked case any firearm with a barrel over 16 inches long, so long as the firearm is not designed to be interchanged with a barrel of a shorter length. There are some super long barreled handguns out there.
    Last edited by Felid`Maximus; 11-26-2011 at 01:36 PM.

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    State Pioneer ConditionThree's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maurice View Post
    If the only legal way to carry a pistol next year is concealed in a lockable case, then why can't the case be attached to a belt worn around the waste? Would that make it an illegal holstered gun? It would not matter if there was a gun in the case or not. Would law enforcement officials have the right to see inside the case as private property? If many people carried cases on their waste in public, this could bring attention to the absurdity of the ban on open carried guns. This is especially true if a pistol could be just as quickly and easily made ready to fire from a case as from a holster. What do you think?

    Maurice
    why can't the case be attached to a belt worn around the waist? This is already being done. The practice of carrying a pistol for self-defense in a locked secure case is being called LUCC (Locked Unloaded Cased Carry)

    Would that make it an illegal holstered gun? There is so such charge related to a cased firearm. There are some that believe that carrying in a locked case without fulfilling destination exemptions would make this a violation of 12025 (the prohibition of concealed weapons.) Others would argue that if you are in proximity to a motor vehicle (it doesnt even have to be yours) and your are on your way to or from it, you are exempt from 12025.

    Would law enforcement officials have the right to see inside the case as private property? Not any more than police have the right to rummage through your car, or your house, or through your pants pockets. In order to conduct a search, police will need your consent, probable cause, or a warrant. If police cannot articulate what is inside the locked case and how they came to that conclusion, they can't establish probable cause even to conduct a 12031(e) check.

    See link http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...highlight=lucc
    New to OPEN CARRY in California? Click and read this first...

    NA MALE SUBJ ON FOOT, LS NB 3 AGO HAD A HOLSTERED HANDGUN ON HIS RIGHT HIP. WAS NOT BRANDISHING THE WEAPON, BUT RP FOUND SUSPICIOUS.
    CL SUBJ IN COMPLIANCE WITH LAW


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    Questions about your comments

    Thank you for the responses. The reason why I am asking about carrying a gun in a case on my waste is so that I can bring public attention to the issue of losing our right to openly carry a handgun. So, I intend to direct public attention toward myself and my gun. I am even planning to write “GUN” in bold letters on the side of the case. My main concern is if a gun case that is attached to my waste belt can be considered to be a holster.

    Although the pistol will be unloaded, there will be magazines in the case. I have no intention of locking the case. Is there a law that requires guns to be locked in a case while being transported in public? I am also curious about statements made regarding the transportation of guns in cases only to and from a vehicle. Is there a law that prohibits the transportation of a gun in a case in public away from a vehicle, other than in excluded areas?

    Maurice

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    After January 1, it will be necessary for it to be in a locked case under most transportation circumstances.

    26350 will ban unloaded open carry of handguns. Handguns in locked cases are exempt from 26350.

    12025 already bans concealed carry of handguns.

    If it weren't for exemptions, you wouldn't be able to transport a handgun at all. One such exemption to 12025, (but not the only exemption,) occurs when the handgun is unloaded and in a locked case and you are transporting it directly to or from a vehicle for any lawful purpose.

    Whether the case is considered a holster is irrelevant. If it was considered a holster it would not make storing a gun in it any more or less legal.

    If you give an officer the reason to believe a firearm is in the case, if he doesn't want to search the case to gather evidence for a 12025 prosecution, he may want to search to conduct a 12031(e) inspection (checking for ammunition in the chamber or in a magazine inserted in the gun), which is a search that the California penal code says an officer can conduct absent any suspicion of a crime and without a warrant.
    Last edited by Felid`Maximus; 11-27-2011 at 02:46 AM.

  7. #7
    State Pioneer ConditionThree's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maurice View Post
    Thank you for the responses. The reason why I am asking about carrying a gun in a case on my waste is so that I can bring public attention to the issue of losing our right to openly carry a handgun. So, I intend to direct public attention toward myself and my gun. I am even planning to write “GUN” in bold letters on the side of the case. My main concern is if a gun case that is attached to my waste belt can be considered to be a holster.

    Although the pistol will be unloaded, there will be magazines in the case. I have no intention of locking the case. Is there a law that requires guns to be locked in a case while being transported in public? I am also curious about statements made regarding the transportation of guns in cases only to and from a vehicle. Is there a law that prohibits the transportation of a gun in a case in public away from a vehicle, other than in excluded areas?

    Maurice
    Please spend more time reading and understanding the penal code. Without a lock on your case, you will be violating the law by carrying a concealed weapon without a license. Writing "gun" on the case will not absolve you of this crime. Whether a locked case attached your your waist is considered a 'holster' is completely irrelevant since holsters are not illegal. I recommend being discrete, carrying in a locked case, and if police ask to see what's inside the case, politely refuse consent and advise them that you will not be answering their questions.

    The only thing you have mentioned that I think is tempting is to have a locked case marked "GUN" on one's hip, and instead of a firearm enclosed, would be a brick around which a note attached that quotes the Fourth Amendment or perhaps a annotated copy of the United States Constitution. Same advice to refusing to consent and refusal to answer their questions. This assumes of course, that you have qualified counsel on speed dial.
    New to OPEN CARRY in California? Click and read this first...

    NA MALE SUBJ ON FOOT, LS NB 3 AGO HAD A HOLSTERED HANDGUN ON HIS RIGHT HIP. WAS NOT BRANDISHING THE WEAPON, BUT RP FOUND SUSPICIOUS.
    CL SUBJ IN COMPLIANCE WITH LAW


    Support the 2A in California - Shop Amazon for any item and up to 15% of all purchases go back to the Calguns Foundation. Enter through either of the following links
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    State Pioneer ConditionThree's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Felid`Maximus View Post
    If you give an officer the reason to believe a firearm is in the case, if he doesn't want to search the case to gather evidence for a 12025 prosecution, he may want to search to conduct a 12031(e) inspection (checking for ammunition in the chamber or in a magazine inserted in the gun), which is a search that the California penal code says an officer can conduct absent any suspicion of a crime and without a warrant.
    Ask yourself; How do you get arrested for 12031 without a firearm coming into plain view? How can a peace officer conduct a search for a thing hidden from view, unless one allows it? Can a peace officer seize you or your property without seeing the evidence or a corroborating witness to a crime?

    Open carry exposed the (e) check for its 4th Amendment faults, but if you are transporting in a locked case, (e) checks are dead, unless you volunteer for them.
    New to OPEN CARRY in California? Click and read this first...

    NA MALE SUBJ ON FOOT, LS NB 3 AGO HAD A HOLSTERED HANDGUN ON HIS RIGHT HIP. WAS NOT BRANDISHING THE WEAPON, BUT RP FOUND SUSPICIOUS.
    CL SUBJ IN COMPLIANCE WITH LAW


    Support the 2A in California - Shop Amazon for any item and up to 15% of all purchases go back to the Calguns Foundation. Enter through either of the following links
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    Regular Member Save Our State's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ConditionThree View Post
    Ask yourself; How do you get arrested for 12031 without a firearm coming into plain view? How can a peace officer conduct a search for a thing hidden from view, unless one allows it? Can a peace officer seize you or your property without seeing the evidence or a corroborating witness to a crime?

    Open carry exposed the (e) check for its 4th Amendment faults, but if you are transporting in a locked case, (e) checks are dead, unless you volunteer for them.
    What if they just ask you if you have any weapons on you? That's something regularly done these days..."for their protection"

  10. #10
    State Pioneer ConditionThree's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Save Our State View Post
    What if they just ask you if you have any weapons on you? That's something regularly done these days..."for their protection"
    You will have to decide just when you will stop surrendering your right to remain silent. This right does not begin when you are arrested, but existed even before police decided to contact you.

    Try this on for size...

    "Upon advice of counsel, I will not be answering any of your questions today."
    New to OPEN CARRY in California? Click and read this first...

    NA MALE SUBJ ON FOOT, LS NB 3 AGO HAD A HOLSTERED HANDGUN ON HIS RIGHT HIP. WAS NOT BRANDISHING THE WEAPON, BUT RP FOUND SUSPICIOUS.
    CL SUBJ IN COMPLIANCE WITH LAW


    Support the 2A in California - Shop Amazon for any item and up to 15% of all purchases go back to the Calguns Foundation. Enter through either of the following links
    www.calgunsfoundation.org/amazon
    www.shop42a.com

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    Quote Originally Posted by ConditionThree View Post
    why can't the case be attached to a belt worn around the waist? This is already being done. The practice of carrying a pistol for self-defense in a locked secure case is being called LUCC (Locked Unloaded Cased Carry)

    Would that make it an illegal holstered gun? There is so such charge related to a cased firearm. There are some that believe that carrying in a locked case without fulfilling destination exemptions would make this a violation of 12025 (the prohibition of concealed weapons.) Others would argue that if you are in proximity to a motor vehicle (it doesnt even have to be yours) and your are on your way to or from it, you are exempt from 12025.

    Would law enforcement officials have the right to see inside the case as private property? Not any more than police have the right to rummage through your car, or your house, or through your pants pockets. In order to conduct a search, police will need your consent, probable cause, or a warrant. If police cannot articulate what is inside the locked case and how they came to that conclusion, they can't establish probable cause even to conduct a 12031(e) check.

    See link http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...highlight=lucc
    If I disembark from my car with a locked case with a firearm and corresponding ammunition inside, went to Starbucks, ordered a cup of coffee and decided to drink it while at the premises, all the while keeping the locked box with me, is it not a legal destination from my motor vehicle?

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