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Thread: How "green" is a car, really, that bursts into flames after impact..

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    How "green" is a car, really, that bursts into flames after impact..


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    Regular Member VW_Factor's Avatar
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    My TDI nets more mileage and range than most anything publicly available atm. Late 90s early 2000s if you can find one, get one and get it in stick.

    55+ mpg highway is nice, and you don't even have to try hard. High 40s around town.
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    Right? My '96 Civic still gets 36-40mpg. And does so without bursting into flames like a MOAB if anyone bumps into it..

    and 30 mile range on batteries? I wouldnt even make it half-way to my office..

    The real irony, for me, as a past Chevy-owner, is that Chevy, of ALL makers, it trying to make an electric car at all...those folks cant even figure out how to make functioning turn-signals or windshield whipers anymore...

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    Quote Originally Posted by j4l View Post
    Right? My '96 Civic still gets 36-40mpg. And does so without bursting into flames like a MOAB if anyone bumps into it..

    and 30 mile range on batteries? I wouldnt even make it half-way to my office..

    The real irony, for me, as a past Chevy-owner, is that Chevy, of ALL makers, it trying to make an electric car at all...those folks cant even figure out how to make functioning turn-signals or windshield whipers anymore...
    They've never been able to make a radio system that would last more than 200k miles.
    Don't believe any facts that I say! This is the internet and it is filled with lies and untruth. I invite you to look up for yourself the basic facts that my arguments might be based upon. This way we can have a discussion where logic and hints on where to find information are what is brought to the forum and people look up and verify facts for themselves.

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    How is this news? Take some laptop batteries and smash them up with a hammer and see if they don't catch on fire.

    Batteries catch fire when punctured. It says so on the side of each one. What that article doesn't say is how long they took to catch fire. The first story about this I read said that the car sat for a week after crashing it before it caught fire. Someone better bust out the jaws of life cuz you couldn't get out of that car fast enough!

    Also, to whoever said the car wouldn't make it to his office. The car doesn't have a 30 mile range-the batteries do. After 30 miles the car works just like a regular hybrid. The advantage the Volt has is that the battery pack is big enough that you don't have to run the ICE if you don't have to drive 30 miles before you plug it in.

    Jay Leno bought one of these cars and has put 11,000 miles on it, burning just over 4 gallons, for an average of over 2300 mpg. Granted, he does have to pay for the electricity, but from what I've read it'll cost you about $1.50 to charge it up.

    About the only fault I can give the Chevy Volt right now is the price. It is tremendously expensive. That and I'd rather drive a diesel.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SovereignAxe View Post
    Jay Leno bought one of these cars and has put 11,000 miles on it, burning just over 4 gallons, for an average of over 2300 mpg.
    This a gross and intentionally misleading, if not seriously reprehensible overstatement of what's known as "equivalent passenger miles per gallon" as established by a complex, total energy formula that correctly equates electricity recharging with gasoline.

    Right now, electricity is WAY cheaper. Like four times, if not more. That's why the Aptera boasts 200 mpg on it's equivalence claims. On a cost-equivalent basis (meaning how much you pay to drive to work each day), the Aptera is the leading most fuel-efficient PRODUCTION car in the world.

    Jay Leno conveniently failed to include his recharging expenses. The laws of physics themselves absolutely preclude any efficiency beyond approximately 800 mpg, and that's for a fully-loaded cross-country train. Cross-country buses still boast efficiencies of greater than 300 passenger miles per gallon. However, you'll never see that in your passenger pocket, as they charge out the wazoo.
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    Quote Originally Posted by since9 View Post
    This a gross and intentionally misleading, if not seriously reprehensible overstatement of what's known as "equivalent passenger miles per gallon" as established by a complex, total energy formula that correctly equates electricity recharging with gasoline.

    Right now, electricity is WAY cheaper. Like four times, if not more. That's why the Aptera boasts 200 mpg on it's equivalence claims. On a cost-equivalent basis (meaning how much you pay to drive to work each day), the Aptera is the leading most fuel-efficient PRODUCTION car in the world.

    Jay Leno conveniently failed to include his recharging expenses. The laws of physics themselves absolutely preclude any efficiency beyond approximately 800 mpg, and that's for a fully-loaded cross-country train. Cross-country buses still boast efficiencies of greater than 300 passenger miles per gallon. However, you'll never see that in your passenger pocket, as they charge out the wazoo.
    you do realize you're splitting hairs here, right? whether it's 2300mpg or 200mpg, you're still getting about a thousand percent improvement over most vehicles on the road, and paying pennies for electricity.

    complain about the method for reaching the efficiency figures all you want (honestly, I think that for the sake of the layman being able to understand them, it should be measured in cents per mile. But I guess that wouldn't be universal nor static), they're still pretty impressive. Besides, it's quite obbvious they're leaving out the electricity figures intentionally. They're simply illustrating that if you buy the car for the job it was intended, that performance is totally reachable.
    "Anyone worth shooting once is worth shooting twice." -Zeus

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    Regular Member VW_Factor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SovereignAxe View Post
    you do realize you're splitting hairs here, right? whether it's 2300mpg or 200mpg, you're still getting about a thousand percent improvement over most vehicles on the road, and paying pennies for electricity.
    Except that for people who need to drive more than 30 miles at a time, will never see such returns. In those cases, its no better than another 25mpg sedan.

    Live in Salem and work in PDX? Don't waste your money on a Volt.

    For those who live and work in the same town and have short commutes, there are much better alternatives than the Volt.
    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady
    I am no victim, just a poor college student who looks to the day where the rich have the living piss taxed out of them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by VW_Factor View Post
    Except that for people who need to drive more than 30 miles at a time, will never see such returns. In those cases, its no better than another 25mpg sedan.

    Live in Salem and work in PDX? Don't waste your money on a Volt.

    For those who live and work in the same town and have short commutes, there are much better alternatives than the Volt.
    ^ exactly. Granted, I only have to come in to the office 2 days per week (rest of time I telecommute-gotta love the 'net, eh?), but even then, I live (100% by choice) nearly 1hr from town-out in the sticks. It's a 40+ mile (forget the exact milage) one-way trip to the office downtown. Such a car would make absolutely no sense for me, whatsoever.
    Especially given the cost they ask for on those flaming gimmicks.

    For that matter, even when I lived on Long Island some years back. I was only about 8 miles from my office there.BUT- thanks to the way the roads were laid-out, and thanks to typical Yankee driving (a term I use most loosely,indeed) it used to take upwards of an hour or more just to get to work. Now, how effective would this contraption have been to me sitting in bumper-to-bumper traffic?

    Now, does any of this mean I'm opposed to electric cars? No way! But the tech just isnt there yet, IMO, in regards to re-charging/ range/and batteries. And I dont favor these things for any "green" reasons, at all.
    The advantages- or potential for them, someday- are in performance. Mainly in torgue/acceleration.
    Some of the motor-in-wheel applications that are coming out offer the potential (with 2 such wheels) for Torgue numbers approaching the Bugatti...

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    You could be paying pennies for electricity, but my gas guzzling car cost me $11,000 new and gets 32 MPG, whereas the Chevy Volt is at least $31,000 new according to Chevy's website. For the price difference, I can buy about 5000 gallons of gas and drive 160,000 miles. So it still doesn't seem worthwhile from a money saving standpoint.

    I wonder also if the battery may also eventually fail and need to be replaced and what costs may be involved with that.
    Last edited by Felid`Maximus; 11-27-2011 at 01:53 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Felid`Maximus View Post
    You could be paying pennies for electricity, but my gas guzzling car cost me $11,000 new and gets 32 MPG, whereas the Chevy Volt is at least $31,000 new according to Chevy's website. For the price difference, I can buy about 5000 gallons of gas and drive 160,000 miles. So it still doesn't seem worthwhile from a money saving standpoint.

    I wonder also if the battery may also eventually fail and need to be replaced and what costs may be involved with that.
    If it's anything near as much as it cost a couple of co-workers who bought Prius when they came out...ouch.

    And, I imagine utility/power companies would have to look at Volt owners like a winning lottery ticket..I find it hard to buy into the idea this thing isnt going to draw at least as much current, when charging, as running your washer/dryer for several hours non-stop..
    Im dying to watch a meter spin when someone plugs one of these in..

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    Regular Member VW_Factor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Felid`Maximus View Post
    I wonder also if the battery may also eventually fail and need to be replaced and what costs may be involved with that.
    The batteries are also costly and toxic. I understand that they can be recycled into other goods, etc.

    The only real thing holding electric vehicles back as mentioned, is battery technology. We don't even have a good small time low draw battery for a cell phone type device yet (I'm talking about full charge lasts a week under normal usage) let alone for a high draw device including a vehicle.

    When battery tech catches up, I am positive that electric vehicles will be worth it, let alone "green". I can't buy the "green" aspect of an electric vehicle when EOL the electric vehicle ends up being worse for the planet than say a standard Honda Civic.
    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady
    I am no victim, just a poor college student who looks to the day where the rich have the living piss taxed out of them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by since9 View Post
    Right now, electricity is WAY cheaper. Like four times, if not more.
    Give them time.
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    Perhaps the " bursting into flames" thing is really a feature intended to eliminate injuries (survivors) that drive up the cost of healthcare. OK, sarcasm off, but weighing the cost of healthcare versus the cost of a funeral is already a common practice. Insurance companies have done this for years when determining whether to cover the cost of an expensive therapy, treatment or drug.

    The batteries contain material strip mined in Canada. How green is that? More than a few of the battery components are toxic. Things like cadmium, lithium compounds, heaven knows what else. Perhaps even good old lead.

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