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Thread: Open Carry Traffic Stop

  1. #1
    Regular Member ADulay's Avatar
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    Open Carry Traffic Stop

    All,

    I'll try to be brief with this one as I'll just assume all of us are on FCC also and I've already posted up the details there, but for those who only come in here, this is what happened today!

    First off, I open carry daily. Yes, every day. It's my "thing". Some people play tennis or golf or workout. I open carry.

    This afternoon I was headed to the range, open carrying on the motorcycle of course, and got pulled over by the Charlotte county sheriff's department as I was making a left turn off the main highway (US 41). This type of stop has been coming around about every three months or so at this time. I'm used to it.

    The officer explained that he had assumed I was going to the range (he was aware of 790.25(3)) and only lit me up as a citizen had pointed to me in traffic while we were stopped at the light and wanted him to "do something".

    So he immediately turned on the lights after the left turn so the citizen could see that he was "doing something" and I pulled over.

    A professional traffic stop ensued and there were no problems at all. We eventually discussed duty weapons, places to eat and shooting in general.

    Once again, the Charlotte county sheriff's department's officer did a good job with no problems at all.

    For those of you who contemplate open carrying for fishing, camping and shooting just be prepared to get pulled over from time to time. Either because of some sort of citizen concern (very rare) or an officer that may want to satisfy his own curiosity. As long as you're following the statutes, you're good to go!

    Not everyone has the time or energy to open carry every day. I've very lucky and I can, and do!

    Also, now that I have my official box of Zombie ammo, I'm no longer afraid of night time driving!! (hehehe)

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    Last edited by ADulay; 11-26-2011 at 03:24 PM.
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  2. #2
    Regular Member Badger Johnson's Avatar
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    It's not legal to OC in Florida.
    A gun in a holster is better than one drawn and dispensing bullets. Concealed forces the latter. - ixtow

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    Founder's Club Member ixtow's Avatar
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    Anytime I have a place to go, I try to find somewhere I can go fishing nearby.

    I get on the bike and head to the fishing spot near my actual destination.

    Quote Originally Posted by 790.25(3)(h)
    A person engaged in fishing, camping, or lawful hunting or going to or returning from a fishing, camping, or lawful hunting expedition;
    I go fishing for about 5 minutes.

    Quote Originally Posted by 790.25(3)(h)
    A person engaged in fishing, camping, or lawful hunting or going to or returning from a fishing, camping, or lawful hunting expedition;
    Then I go to my actual destination.

    Quote Originally Posted by 790.25(3)(h)
    A person engaged in fishing, camping, or lawful hunting or going to or returning from a fishing, camping, or lawful hunting expedition;
    I do the same in reverse when going back home...

    Some might dispute the 'returning from' part.... So might a Cop.... [shrug] Who's to say where I am returning to, or how I feel like getting there? I'm certainly not fishing anymore, and I'm going somewhere.... Returning seems to imply that I have to go back where I came from, but I don't see how the State can tell me I have to head back to the same place when I'm done. Maybe I left to go on my fishing trip from a place I never intend to go back to? It is no less a fishing trip, which the Spirit of the Law is clearly intended to protect. The 3rd part of the law can't be used as a setup to negate the first 2. One might call that entrapment... It's OK to head out fishing, and to be fishing, but as soon as you're done, you're a criminal? Maybe I went fishing to celebrate moving to a new place? Maybe Iv'e been evicted and needed to unwind? Maybe the Wife is bitchy so I decided to crash at my Girlfriend's place to avoid any domestic issues when I show up with a gun? Hmmm? What is needed is evidence that I am not returning from a fishing trip. I'm leaving a fishing spot, and I have the fishing tackle... Seems like the evidence support it, not the contrary...

    What if I run low on gas during the trip? Does any other act become a crime when you run out of gas? I'm still returning, buying the gas is a necessary step to doing so... I won't be doing much returning without it... 2 gallon tank and all... I didn't build it that way.

    Am I going the wrong direction? Maybe I'm not from that neck of the woods and got a little lost? Not like I can look at my GPS while riding my bike...

    Lets not forget this entire very strongly worded paragraph:
    Quote Originally Posted by 790.25(4)
    CONSTRUCTION.—This act shall be liberally construed to carry out the declaration of policy herein and in favor of the constitutional right to keep and bear arms for lawful purposes. This act is supplemental and additional to existing rights to bear arms now guaranteed by law and decisions of the courts of Florida, and nothing herein shall impair or diminish any of such rights. This act shall supersede any law, ordinance, or regulation in conflict herewith.
    And if it's a rifle...

    Quote Originally Posted by 790.25(5)
    POSSESSION IN PRIVATE CONVEYANCE.—Notwithstanding subsection (2), it is lawful and is not a violation of s. 790.01 for a person 18 years of age or older to possess a concealed firearm or other weapon for self-defense or other lawful purpose within the interior of a private conveyance, without a license, if the firearm or other weapon is securely encased or is otherwise not readily accessible for immediate use. Nothing herein contained prohibits the carrying of a legal firearm other than a handgun anywhere in a private conveyance when such firearm is being carried for a lawful use. Nothing herein contained shall be construed to authorize the carrying of a concealed firearm or other weapon on the person. This subsection shall be liberally construed in favor of the lawful use, ownership, and possession of firearms and other weapons, including lawful self-defense as provided in s. 776.012.
    I haven't seen a cop yet... So, who knows...

    Even if I am stretching it a little bit, the law says right there that is is intended to be liberally construed in favor... It's right there... I can read... That is quite instructive and disposes of anti-gun prejudice being abused. I'm stretching it a bit because that is exactly what the laws says to do...

    [the whole thing: http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/.../0790.25.html]

    As the experience of others has shown, 'brief' exposure isn't good enough. The cops are still attacking. We knew this ambiguity would never work, and now the Citizens are suffering at the hands of Government for it.

    the silver lining, if you can call it that, is that just as they defeated their own arguments during legislation, the cops' own actions are again showing that we need Open Carry. They lied to stifle it, and now they continue to attack anyway after they said 'brief' was good enough... The FSA has proven, TWICE, that they lie to seize power and cannot be trusted.
    Last edited by ixtow; 11-26-2011 at 04:07 PM.
    "The fourth man's dark, accusing song had scratched our comfort hard and long..."
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    Tyranny with Manners is still Tyranny.

  4. #4
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    It's a shame that he reinforced the public's idea that you were doing something bad, wrong, and illegal.

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    Founder's Club Member ixtow's Avatar
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    S'ok. A friend and myself will be down there making a mess of things in short order... Throwing off all the hateful notions reinforced today. Looking dirty and grubby, us people just shouldn't have guns... We're not rich.
    "The fourth man's dark, accusing song had scratched our comfort hard and long..."
    http://edhelper.com/poetry/The_Hangm...rice_Ogden.htm

    https://gunthreadadapters.com

    "Be not intimidated ... nor suffer yourselves to be wheedled out of your Liberties by any pretense of Politeness, Delicacy, or Decency. These, as they are often used, are but three different names for Hypocrisy, Chicanery, and Cowardice." - John Adams

    Tyranny with Manners is still Tyranny.

  6. #6
    Regular Member hammer6's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ixtow View Post
    Anytime I have a place to go, I try to find somewhere I can go fishing nearby.

    I get on the bike and head to the fishing spot near my actual destination.



    I go fishing for about 5 minutes.



    Then I go to my actual destination.



    I do the same in reverse when going back home...

    Some might dispute the 'returning from' part.... So might a Cop.... [shrug] Who's to say where I am returning to, or how I feel like getting there? I'm certainly not fishing anymore, and I'm going somewhere.... Returning seems to imply that I have to go back where I came from, but I don't see how the State can tell me I have to head back to the same place when I'm done. Maybe I left to go on my fishing trip from a place I never intend to go back to? It is no less a fishing trip, which the Spirit of the Law is clearly intended to protect. The 3rd part of the law can't be used as a setup to negate the first 2. One might call that entrapment... It's OK to head out fishing, and to be fishing, but as soon as you're done, you're a criminal? Maybe I went fishing to celebrate moving to a new place? Maybe Iv'e been evicted and needed to unwind? Maybe the Wife is bitchy so I decided to crash at my Girlfriend's place to avoid any domestic issues when I show up with a gun? Hmmm? What is needed is evidence that I am not returning from a fishing trip. I'm leaving a fishing spot, and I have the fishing tackle... Seems like the evidence support it, not the contrary...

    What if I run low on gas during the trip? Does any other act become a crime when you run out of gas? I'm still returning, buying the gas is a necessary step to doing so... I won't be doing much returning without it... 2 gallon tank and all... I didn't build it that way.

    Am I going the wrong direction? Maybe I'm not from that neck of the woods and got a little lost? Not like I can look at my GPS while riding my bike...

    Lets not forget this entire very strongly worded paragraph:


    And if it's a rifle...



    I haven't seen a cop yet... So, who knows...

    Even if I am stretching it a little bit, the law says right there that is is intended to be liberally construed in favor... It's right there... I can read... That is quite instructive and disposes of anti-gun prejudice being abused. I'm stretching it a bit because that is exactly what the laws says to do...

    [the whole thing: http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/.../0790.25.html]

    As the experience of others has shown, 'brief' exposure isn't good enough. The cops are still attacking. We knew this ambiguity would never work, and now the Citizens are suffering at the hands of Government for it.

    the silver lining, if you can call it that, is that just as they defeated their own arguments during legislation, the cops' own actions are again showing that we need Open Carry. They lied to stifle it, and now they continue to attack anyway after they said 'brief' was good enough... The FSA has proven, TWICE, that they lie to seize power and cannot be trusted.
    nice!
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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badger Johnson View Post
    It's not legal to OC in Florida.
    There are exceptions/circumstances where OC is definitely legal in Florida.

    Do more research and let us know what you discover.

    Hints: fishing, camping, to and from range....can you find others?
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  8. #8
    Regular Member hammer6's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by grapeshot View Post
    do more research and let us know what you discover.


    hahahahahahah yessssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss
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    doubt is a distraction from reality. fear is acknowledging doubt as reality.

    it's time to tap in to a higher reality; the one you were made for.

  9. #9
    Regular Member ADulay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badger Johnson View Post
    It's not legal to OC in Florida.
    Well, that's not quite true.

    The Florida statutes are pretty black and white about this one and I should know. I utilize the full extent of the statutes every day with the open carry of my weapon on my strong side in a Fobus paddle holster.

    Florida Statute 790.25(3)(h) is what "allows" me to open carry on the motorcycle during my daily runs to and from the local fishing spots.

    Paragraph (j) is what "allows" me to carry to and from the shooting range, in case you were so inclined.

    The relevant link is here... http://www.flsenate.gov/Laws/Statutes/2011/790.25

    Everyone who is involved in the Open Carry movement in Florida should have that page bookmarked for reference (and probably printed out) just in case.

    I have been stopped three or four times now and each time I had been sent on my way, still open carrying, without any problems other than taking up a few mintues of my time. I find that this is time well spent with the LEO in question and has allowed me, at least once, to bring the LEO up to speed on the appropriate statutes for open carry.

    Obviously this is all done in a civil manner.

    AD
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  10. #10
    Regular Member ADulay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ixtow View Post
    S'ok. A friend and myself will be down there making a mess of things in short order... Throwing off all the hateful notions reinforced today. Looking dirty and grubby, us people just shouldn't have guns... We're not rich.

    Ixtow,

    Hey, I'm looking forward to our fishing excursion when you get over to this side of the state. We'll take some pictures and post them up here to show that we're real people!!

    Heck, as you'll be a guest over here, I might even bring out the shiny gun (the S&W) instead of the black gun (the Glock)! Luckily the holster for the H&K.40 fits the S&W .45 perfectly so I'm good to go!!

    AD
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    Founder's Club Member ixtow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ADulay View Post
    Ixtow,

    Hey, I'm looking forward to our fishing excursion when you get over to this side of the state. We'll take some pictures and post them up here to show that we're real people!!

    Heck, as you'll be a guest over here, I might even bring out the shiny gun (the S&W) instead of the black gun (the Glock)! Luckily the holster for the H&K.40 fits the S&W .45 perfectly so I'm good to go!!

    AD
    My trip will have multiple purposes.

    1) The friend I am visiting is a fabricator. He is hooking me up with some exhaust, mine fell off. [sadface]

    2) He wants to buy my Gen2 Glock 17.

    3) Oh yeah, I'll be hitting the fishing pier before I head over to his shop.... :-p

    I don't have a holster for the G17/Gen2. You got a paddle Serpa you could part with? I'm sure he'd buy it.

    Hmmm, pictures... I'll have to think about that one.
    "The fourth man's dark, accusing song had scratched our comfort hard and long..."
    http://edhelper.com/poetry/The_Hangm...rice_Ogden.htm

    https://gunthreadadapters.com

    "Be not intimidated ... nor suffer yourselves to be wheedled out of your Liberties by any pretense of Politeness, Delicacy, or Decency. These, as they are often used, are but three different names for Hypocrisy, Chicanery, and Cowardice." - John Adams

    Tyranny with Manners is still Tyranny.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ixtow View Post
    My trip will have multiple purposes.

    1) The friend I am visiting is a fabricator. He is hooking me up with some exhaust, mine fell off. [sadface]

    2) He wants to buy my Gen2 Glock 17.

    3) Oh yeah, I'll be hitting the fishing pier before I head over to his shop.... :-p

    I don't have a holster for the G17/Gen2. You got a paddle Serpa you could part with? I'm sure he'd buy it.

    Hmmm, pictures... I'll have to think about that one.
    You could always use the one they hang in the Post Office..,or even the one from the Milk Carton

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    Founder's Club Member ixtow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by j4l View Post
    or even the one from the Milk Carton
    You think anyone would report me missing? :-p
    "The fourth man's dark, accusing song had scratched our comfort hard and long..."
    http://edhelper.com/poetry/The_Hangm...rice_Ogden.htm

    https://gunthreadadapters.com

    "Be not intimidated ... nor suffer yourselves to be wheedled out of your Liberties by any pretense of Politeness, Delicacy, or Decency. These, as they are often used, are but three different names for Hypocrisy, Chicanery, and Cowardice." - John Adams

    Tyranny with Manners is still Tyranny.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ixtow View Post
    You think anyone would report me missing? :-p
    I'd miss you .................but only if it was on purpose.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ixtow View Post
    You think anyone would report me missing? :-p
    We can always hope, cant we? lol.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ADulay View Post
    Well, that's not quite true.

    The Florida statutes are pretty black and white about this one and I should know. I utilize the full extent of the statutes every day with the open carry of my weapon on my strong side in a Fobus paddle holster.

    Florida Statute 790.25(3)(h) is what "allows" me to open carry on the motorcycle during my daily runs to and from the local fishing spots.

    Paragraph (j) is what "allows" me to carry to and from the shooting range, in case you were so inclined.

    The relevant link is here... http://www.flsenate.gov/Laws/Statutes/2011/790.25

    Everyone who is involved in the Open Carry movement in Florida should have that page bookmarked for reference (and probably printed out) just in case.

    I have been stopped three or four times now and each time I had been sent on my way, still open carrying, without any problems other than taking up a few mintues of my time. I find that this is time well spent with the LEO in question and has allowed me, at least once, to bring the LEO up to speed on the appropriate statutes for open carry.

    Obviously this is all done in a civil manner.

    AD
    Three questions regarding 790.25.
    1.) Am I able to walk or jog to my local fishing spot?
    2.) Is there any time requirement I have to fish for? In other words, can I fish for 5 minutes and head back home?
    3.) How direct does my route have to be to get to the fishing spot?

    I'm not big on fishing, but OCing while I jog would be a lot easier on my skin then CCing when jogging.

  17. #17
    Campaign Veteran Schlitz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 996twint View Post
    Three questions regarding 790.25.
    1.) Am I able to walk or jog to my local fishing spot?
    2.) Is there any time requirement I have to fish for? In other words, can I fish for 5 minutes and head back home?
    3.) How direct does my route have to be to get to the fishing spot?

    I'm not big on fishing, but OCing while I jog would be a lot easier on my skin then CCing when jogging.
    Go and actually read 790.25 (not trying to be a smart ass. but read it. It answers your questions.)

    EDIT:

    Actually, go and read over ALL of 790, learn it, know it, feel it - if you're going to carry guns in the state of florida you should know all the details
    Last edited by Schlitz; 11-27-2011 at 08:18 PM.
    “The claim and exercise of a constitutional right cannot be converted into a crime.”
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    “There can be no sanction or penalty imposed upon one because of his exercise of constitutional rights.”
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schlitz View Post
    Go and actually read 790.25 (not trying to be a smart ass. but read it. It answers your questions.)

    EDIT:

    Actually, go and read over ALL of 790, learn it, know it, feel it - if you're going to carry guns in the state of florida you should know all the details
    I've read it many times.
    I've never OCed before. I CC every day. I'm a little hesitant, that's why I wanted to get some clarification on the questions.

  19. #19
    Regular Member ADulay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 996twint View Post
    Three questions regarding 790.25.
    1.) Am I able to walk or jog to my local fishing spot?
    If I were a walking type person, I'd not see a problem with it. I have walked from my house to a local fishing pier in town while OC'ing with no apparent problems that I was aware of. Of course while at the pier, it was the usual non-event. And walking with a fishing rig and a weapon immediately answers the question of whether or not you're going fishing!

    Quote Originally Posted by 996twint View Post
    2.) Is there any time requirement I have to fish for? In other words, can I fish for 5 minutes and head back home?
    In my daily travels, if I don't catch anything in 5 minutes, I am so outta there! I also ask the people who were there ahead of me how it's been going. If they all report major suckage on the fishing, I'm gone.

    Quote Originally Posted by 996twint View Post
    3.) How direct does my route have to be to get to the fishing spot?
    I would say that as long as you're not stopping anywhere, the route is probably your discretion. I have a variety of routes to use to get to different places, depending on just how much civilian interaction I want to deal with that day.

    I have been known to sleep at a Holiday Inn Express so that's where I"m coming from.

    If you're planning on testing the OC while fishing waters, just do as much as you're comfortable with. Being slightly nervous or apprehensive about showing your weapon is natural. It goes away the more you OC, really. For most people, the first time they do this, it's either at an Open Carry Saturday event or they open carry right at the fishing spot. The "going to and coming from" confidence comes a bit later down the line.

    If you're anywhere near me on the SW side of the state, I'd be more than happy to fly your wing with an OC fishing trip some day.

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  20. #20
    Founder's Club Member ixtow's Avatar
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    The law doesn't say anything about time limits, or how direct a route must be, or how you get there or return... So... I'm not saying "that's all the clarification you need." I will say "that is all the clarification you're going to find."

    If you want more, well, you'll just keep on wanting it... No one can give you that which does not exist.

    It's kinda like a Restraining Order makes killing and Raping "more" illegal... It can't be done. The total absence of any such requirements is all the clarification you're ever going to get. Any response you get on the topic is pure speculation.
    Last edited by ixtow; 11-27-2011 at 10:38 PM.
    "The fourth man's dark, accusing song had scratched our comfort hard and long..."
    http://edhelper.com/poetry/The_Hangm...rice_Ogden.htm

    https://gunthreadadapters.com

    "Be not intimidated ... nor suffer yourselves to be wheedled out of your Liberties by any pretense of Politeness, Delicacy, or Decency. These, as they are often used, are but three different names for Hypocrisy, Chicanery, and Cowardice." - John Adams

    Tyranny with Manners is still Tyranny.

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