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Thread: LEO and CCL????

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    Regular Member oliverclotheshoff's Avatar
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    LEO and CCL????

    say im not carying and dont even have a weapon in the vehicle and get pulled over, if the officer asks for my CCL am i still required to show it to him even though i have no weapons on or in my car?????
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    Regular Member bigdaddy1's Avatar
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    I don't think the DMV will notify the officer that the registered owner has a CCL, don't think it works that way. That would/could present problems say if your wife (who isn't carrying or isn't licensed) is driving. So the question shouldn't come up unless either that officer knows you personally, or you offer the information. Now if you have a bright bumper sticker on that says; I CARRY A CONCEALED WEAPON, that might give an officer cause for pause.
    What part of "shall not be infringed" don't you understand?

  3. #3
    McX
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    instead of the nifty little signs saying: baby on board, maybe one that says: gun on board?

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    Regular Member davegran's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by McX View Post
    instead of the nifty little signs saying: baby on board, maybe one that says: gun on board?
    Like this?


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    Regular Member bigdaddy1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davegran View Post
    Like this?


    Uhm, pretty close Dave. Pretty close
    What part of "shall not be infringed" don't you understand?

  6. #6
    McX
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    Simply lovely! i must have one, or two, or five!

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    Regular Member BROKENSPROKET's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oliverclotheshoff View Post
    say im not carying and dont even have a weapon in the vehicle and get pulled over, if the officer asks for my CCL am i still required to show it to him even though i have no weapons on or in my car?????
    The only time that you are required to displayyour CCL and Photo ID, is if, upon lawful request and you are carrying concealed or open carrying in a place that requires a CCL. Even if you have guns in the car, but you are not carrying concealed, you are not required to display your CCL.

  8. #8
    Regular Member oliverclotheshoff's Avatar
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    but if your carrying concealed how will the officer know?

    i only bring his question up i have heard that some LEO are being trained to ask if you are a ccl holder and if you have any weapons on or with you during traffic stops
    Last edited by oliverclotheshoff; 11-29-2011 at 12:05 PM.
    SCOTT

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    Quote Originally Posted by oliverclotheshoff View Post
    but if your carrying concealed how will the officer know?

    i only bring his question up i have heard that some LEO are being trained to ask if you are a ccl holder and if you have any weapons on or with you during traffic stops
    I wouldn't answer his/her question either way. Don't say "No, I am not carrying", deflect the question.

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    If a Police Officer ask....

    Quote Originally Posted by oliverclotheshoff View Post
    but if your carrying concealed how will the officer know?

    i only bring his question up i have heard that some LEO are being trained to ask if you are a ccl holder and if you have any weapons on or with you during traffic stops
    In know in Greendale, they will ask, "Do you have any weapons on you or in your vehicle?" If I do not have any weapons on me or in my car, I will simply say, "No" and leave it at that. Greendale PD has pulled me over about five years ago and had asked that same question. Today, if you do have a weapon on you or in your vehicle and you say "Yes", only then will they ask for your CCL.

    As a retired federal officer from the Coast Guard and worked with PD's across the nation, law enforcement ALWAYS treated every stop as though the driver and passenger(s) are armed. It is better to be cautious and alert (yellow zone) than like the sheep most citizens are (white zone). Coast Guard Boarding Officers asked the same quetions to mariners (recrecational and commercial vessels).
    Last edited by dmworken; 11-29-2011 at 02:15 PM.
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  11. #11
    Regular Member Badger Johnson's Avatar
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    I don't see why, in the absence of RAS you are required to answer a question about 'any (blah-blah) on board'. If it's a traffic stop and not a flight from a bank robbery (lol), why not just say:

    "Am I required to answer that? My attorney told me in traffic stops I'm only required to give license and insurance and not answer any questions."

    (in a non-disclosure state, obviously where you have to tell the officer up front)
    Last edited by Badger Johnson; 11-29-2011 at 12:41 PM.
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    Founder's Club Member Brass Magnet's Avatar
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    Hmm…I could have sworn we’ve been over this quite a few times already.

    You are only required to provide CCL and ID when an LEO, acting in his/her official capacity, demands it with lawful authority. A fishing expedition is does not constitute lawful authority.

    An LEO can just come up to you and ask for your CCL but it wouldn’t be with any more authority than if I asked you for it.

    If an LEO asks if you have any weapons; more especially any concealed weapons, an answer to the affirmative may give him RAS. Never lie but deflect or refuse to answer. It’s really none of their business.

    Anyone who reads the forum for a while knows a few good ways to try to find out if RAS exists without giving anything up. If you believe the officer has RAS it’s probably better to inform the LEO of your weapon. Why? Because if the LEO has RAS that you may be carrying a concealed weapon; since it is generally illegal, then it already meets “Terry stop” criteria and you may be frisked for weapons, at which time he may then demand to see your CCL anyway.

    Lastly, if you are OC or CC in a place you are allowed to without a license, a request for your license would not have lawful authority.
    Last edited by Brass Magnet; 11-29-2011 at 01:57 PM.
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    Founder's Club Member protias's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dmworken View Post
    In know in Greendale, they will ask, "Do you have any weapons on you or in your vehicle?" If I do not have any weapons on me or in my car, I will simply say, "No" and leave it at that. Greendale PD has pulled me over about five years ago and had asked that same question. Today, if you do have a weapon on you or in your vehicle and you say "Yes", only then will they ask for your CCL.

    As a retired federal officer from the Coast Guard and worked with PD's across the nation, law enforcement ALWAYS treated every stop as though the driver and passenger(s) were armed. It is better to be cautious and alert (yellow zone) than like the sheep most citizens are (white zone). Coast Guard Boarding Officers asked the same quetions to mariners (recrecational and commercial vessels).
    Instead of saying yes or no, you can say you have nothing illegal in the vehicle.
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    Regular Member BROKENSPROKET's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dmworken View Post
    In know in Greendale, they will ask, "Do you have any weapons on you or in your vehicle?" If I do not have any weapons on me or in my car, I will simply say, "No" and leave it at that. Greendale PD has pulled me over about five years ago and had asked that same question. Today, if you do have a weapon on you or in your vehicle and you say "Yes", only then will they ask for your CCL.

    As a retired federal officer from the Coast Guard and worked with PD's across the nation, law enforcement ALWAYS treated every stop as though the driver and passenger(s) are armed. It is better to be cautious and alert (yellow zone) than like the sheep most citizens are (white zone). Coast Guard Boarding Officers asked the same quetions to mariners (recrecational and commercial vessels).
    I have never been asked that question. Not even when I had my handgun case on the dashboard during a trafiic stop.

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    Founder's Club Member Brass Magnet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by protias View Post
    Instead of saying yes or no, you can say you have nothing illegal in the vehicle.
    But what if you do? Seriously, we could run afoul of some law and not even know it. I'd rather politely imply that it's non of his/her business or; if all else fails, use the politician approach. Deflect and redirect.

    LEO: Do you have any weapons in your vehicle?

    Me: Weapons? You know, that's one thing among many that bothers me about the Iraq war; these supposed weapons of mass destruction. Do you know if they ever did find any?

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    Me: You're probably right, if they did have any WMD's they must have concealed them pretty well. Anyway, I've got to get going, it's been nice chatting with you.
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    A better way to put it would be that during a traffic stop, police assume you have a weapon in your hand until they see otherwise. That's why it's recommended you have your hands on the steering wheel when the officer walks up. And your passengers have them in plain sight too (hands, not weapons).

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    Regular Member littlewolf's Avatar
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    Did anyone read the pamphlet that came with their CCL ?
    Owner Little Wolf Firearms , US ARMY RETIRED 101st Airborne & 84th DIV TRNG Small arms instructor.
    Remember , Gun Control is " USING BOTH HANDS!"

  18. #18
    Founder's Club Member Brass Magnet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by littlewolf View Post
    Did anyone read the pamphlet that came with their CCL ?
    To paraphrase the late Mark Twain:
    "If you don't read the pamphlet, you are uninformed; if you do read the pamphlet, you are misinformed."

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    Regular Member bigdaddy1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by littlewolf View Post
    Did anyone read the pamphlet that came with their CCL ?

    While I have not received mine yet, in the CCL class the instructions were if you are carrying and stopped to provide your CCL with your drivers license and to inform the officer you are armed. If you are not armed there is no reason to provide your CCL. The license is your "permission" to carry a firearm concealed, and if you are not carrying there is no reason to provide proof you have said permissions.
    What part of "shall not be infringed" don't you understand?

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    Regular Member BROKENSPROKET's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by littlewolf View Post
    Did anyone read the pamphlet that came with their CCL ?
    No. I didn't even read the application. Not to sound smug, but what are they going to tell me that don't know already.

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    Regular Member wild boar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BROKENSPROKET View Post
    No. I didn't even read the application. Not to sound smug, but what are they going to tell me that don't know already.

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    Regular Member littlewolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigdaddy1 View Post
    While I have not received mine yet, in the CCL class the instructions were if you are carrying and stopped to provide your CCL with your drivers license and to inform the officer you are armed. If you are not armed there is no reason to provide your CCL. The license is your "permission" to carry a firearm concealed, and if you are not carrying there is no reason to provide proof you have said permissions.
    Thank You,Hope you get yours soon. Even though the law does not require you to tell LEO unless they ask and if you are carrying and have a license to do so,it is a good idea to inform them just in case some unforeseen circumstances occur and they find out on their own and end up shooting your dumb arse for being hard headed.

    If you are not carrying why in the world would you provide that information ?
    Owner Little Wolf Firearms , US ARMY RETIRED 101st Airborne & 84th DIV TRNG Small arms instructor.
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    Founder's Club Member Brass Magnet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by littlewolf View Post
    Thank You,Hope you get yours soon. Even though the law does not require you to tell LEO unless they ask and if you are carrying and have a license to do so,it is a good idea to inform them just in case some unforeseen circumstances occur and they find out on their own and end up shooting your dumb arse for being hard headed.
    You might change your mind the first time you or someone you know gets dragged out of a car at gun point for kindly giving up your rights by "informing" them.

    Ever see some of the videos from the duty to inform states like Ohio? The one were the cop keeps telling a permit holder to shut up, keeping him from informing? When the guy finally gets a word in the cop tells him he should have just shot him and then proceeds to continually verbally abuse him. You should be able to google that video up.

    Or how about the guy in Texas that gets physically and verbally abused?

    There's a big problem with "duty to inform". We should be happy we didn't get that forced on us and I can't see why you'd want to volunteer it.

    You're free to do as you wish but there's nothing dumb or hard headed about exercising your rights.
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    Regular Member GlockRDH's Avatar
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    I have 2 friends that are LEOs...one is a state patrol the other Columbia county deputy... the SP officer said that if he stops someone hed like for that person to let him know...the county deputy said that they havent had any formal training on what to do/not do...otherwise he said he doesnt care one way or the other as to seeing the CCL. He agreed with my statement to him, 'the bad guy isnt going to tell you if he has a gun anyway'....

  25. #25
    Founder's Club Member protias's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brass Magnet View Post
    You might change your mind the first time you or someone you know gets dragged out of a car at gun point for kindly giving up your rights by "informing" them.

    Ever see some of the videos from the duty to inform states like Ohio? The one were the cop keeps telling a permit holder to shut up, keeping him from informing? When the guy finally gets a word in the cop tells him he should have just shot him and then proceeds to continually verbally abuse him. You should be able to google that video up.

    Or how about the guy in Texas that gets physically and verbally abused?

    There's a big problem with "duty to inform". We should be happy we didn't get that forced on us and I can't see why you'd want to volunteer it.

    You're free to do as you wish but there's nothing dumb or hard headed about exercising your rights.
    Here is that video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ypX6FmzBXkY
    No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. Thomas Jefferson (1776)

    If you go into a store, with a gun, and rob it, you have forfeited your right to not get shot - Joe Deters, Hamilton County (Cincinnati) Prosecutor

    I ask sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people except for a few politicians. - George Mason (father of the Bill of Rights and The Virginia Declaration of Rights)

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